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Firefighters Killed While Battling NY Blaze

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posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by Vidpci
 


How many times have you had to protect yourself by using your firearm?

You can only kill someone with a gun if you actually have a gun, removing as many guns from circulation as possible will reduce the likelyness of a Gun being used in anger. The difference is here in the UK we do not live in fear of being shot, and in my 29 years of life in the UK I have never seen an illigally carried gun.




posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by christoph
 


Yet the USA has one of the highest rates of Crime in the Western world. Who'd have thought that with all those defenders of liberty carrying guns around the place?



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by jaynkeel

Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by jaynkeel
 


There are farmers markers and wonderful suburbs n Rochester it ps not all slums


Just my take as an outsider and from working in the area over the years, I am sure if you are local you know some nice areas and I didn't mean to down your city it was just my perspective as I said being someone from outside the area. And it has been about 3 yrs since I was last there so things might have changed.


No apology needed...you were correct the first time. My brother goes to college there and we live 30 minutes south....the whole city IS a slum. The crime is staggering as any google search will allude to. More murders than Buffalo...which means they rank 2nd next to NYC in the state. Not a claim to fame in my opinion.

Anyway, three houses are now gone because two others caught fire after police cleared the responders out of the area to search for gunmen.
Local news report says its believed there are two shooters, neither of which have been found yet. Thats as of
11:20 am EST.

Good news is that my brother lives minutes from the scene and is on his way there. Should anything questionable take place, theres fellow ATSers on the scene lol.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by jaynkeel

Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by jaynkeel
 


There are farmers markers and wonderful suburbs n Rochester it ps not all slums


Just my take as an outsider and from working in the area over the years, I am sure if you are local you know some nice areas and I didn't mean to down your city it was just my perspective as I said being someone from outside the area. And it has been about 3 yrs since I was last there so things might have changed.


No apology needed...you were correct the first time. My brother goes to college there and we live 30 minutes south....the whole city IS a slum. The crime is staggering as any google search will allude to. More murders than Buffalo...which means they rank 2nd next to NYC in the state. Not a claim to fame in my opinion.

Anyway, three houses are now gone because two others caught fire after police cleared the responders out of the area to search for gunmen.
Local news report says its believed there are two shooters, neither of which have been found yet. Thats as of
11:20 am EST.

Good news is that my brother lives minutes from the scene and is on his way there. Should anything questionable take place, theres fellow ATSers on the scene lol.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you go to prison in the UK if you kill someone in self defense? Or is that just with home invasions? You didn't answer my question. What am I supposed to do while I wait 20 minutes for the police to show up? I also don't agree with your opinion that criminals will only use their illegal guns on other criminals. New York has some of the most strict gun laws in the country and this very situation proves otherwise.

So what do I do when the criminal that didn't decide to turn in his gun wishes to harm me? And where do we draw the line? Do we ban knives? Clubs? Sticks, rocks, glass, heavy objects, sharp objects... do we just come to a point where we all live in our own 5x5 padded cell? I want to know why the average person is too stupid to defend themselves. I want to know why I need the Government to protect me?



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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listen to the NRA a good armed man at every home...



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Vidpci
reply to post by michael1983l
 


Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you go to prison in the UK if you kill someone in self defense? Or is that just with home invasions? You didn't answer my question. What am I supposed to do while I wait 20 minutes for the police to show up? I also don't agree with your opinion that criminals will only use their illegal guns on other criminals. New York has some of the most strict gun laws in the country and this very situation proves otherwise.

So what do I do when the criminal that didn't decide to turn in his gun wishes to harm me? And where do we draw the line? Do we ban knives? Clubs? Sticks, rocks, glass, heavy objects, sharp objects... do we just come to a point where we all live in our own 5x5 padded cell? I want to know why the average person is too stupid to defend themselves. I want to know why I need the Government to protect me?


No you do not go to prison in the UK if you kill someone in self defense, as long as you apply the use of minimum force then it is perfectly legal. This means that if your or another persons life is in iminant danger then minimum force would would be up to and including lethal force.

On your second point, you are kind of missing the point, gun crime would be serverly reduced due to the fact that Guns would not be as readily available and my advice to you would be, just cooperate and hand over your possesions, possesions can be replaced a life cannot, be that even of the criminals, desperate people do desperate things that doesn't give you the right to end their life, unless they threaten yours of course.

Also by stating that the NYC has the strictest Gun laws in the USA, thats a moot point because your gun laws are a shambles. Zero tollerance and complete ban is the only way to deal with Guns. Making restrictions on where you can carry them and what ammunition you can buy makes little difference at all.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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i love it, another thread about gun control


I live close to the area as well, it does not surprise me at all.
The main thing that goes on in this area is drug trafficking of all kinds.

Ny has some of the nations strictest gun control laws of the nation.
Also has the most unregistered fire arms.
Try again gun control!



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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In before False Flag alerts!



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by shaneslaughta
 


Can you still legally buy a gun in NY state? The answer to that question, indicates that there is not much form of gun control at all. All you have to do is look at the evidence in the statistics of gun related crime in nations that are a similar social structure to that of the USA but have strict gun laws where it makes them virtually illigal to carry. In the US, you see on the news a shooting like this on a weekly basis. In the UK you are lucky to see one in 6 months.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


There are over 270 million privately owned fire arms in the usa, those are the legal ones that are on the books.
removing them is not going to do anything but stop the good people of this country from protecting them selves.

If those fire fighters were packing heat then it wouldn't have gotten that far.

I can see you have an agenda, im not going to argue with you over it.
We live here not you, so stop telling us what we should and shouldn't do with Our nation.

Oh by the way, i have a friend that lives in swanesia. He was shot a month ago by a high powered air rifle.
That just goes to shoe you when one item is off the table people will find something else to use to commit their crimes.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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There is definetly an agenda here, and if anyone can not see it your blind. The article says that the gunman could not be located
really? My guess, there is going to be alot more killing until they get this gun legislation passed, then silence, then killing of formerly armed citizens will not be one or two here or there, but in a mass genocidal rate that hasn't been seen since the Weimar Republic. However, what do I know I only fought in Panama, and Kuwait city and nothing like inccocent lives being put in mass graves could happen here right
edit on 24-12-2012 by kingsquirel because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by shaneslaughta
 


I'd fancy my chances over a high powered air rifle than any kind of ballistic weapon. And thank you for validating my point, if guns had been legal in this country, no doubt your friend in Swansea would have been shot by the real thing instead, luckily he has been protected by our laws of common sense.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


That is a matter of perspective, if he had a fire arm then it might have been avoided.


An air gun still shoots pellets, and a pellet is still a ballistic projectile and at 1200 fps it can still kill.

It seems your biased, that or you are clearly misinformed on the subject.
edit on 24-12-2012 by shaneslaughta because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by shaneslaughta
 


There is no point in discussing this with you lot over the pond as you are clearly unable to consider logical opinions about your gun laws due to your clouded judgement as you love them so much


Seriously if you cannot see the logic behind more guns being carried on the streets leading to more deaths and more injuries, then I am never going to convince you of any common sense. People carrying guns around them at all times would lead to bad situations turning into fatal situations. Human beings will always fall out with each other and that punch up in the Pub car park, turns into a fatal shooting given everybody be carrying a weapon. That is the end of my tuppence worth on this subject because I am clearly happy with my nations gun laws and you are clearly happy with yours. I just find it very sad to turn on the news on what almost seems like a daily basis and seeing the sad loss of life of some of our friends from over the pond because some loon found it all too easy to get his hands on a gun.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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You mean to tell me the only REAL heroes on the city payroll next to teachers are now in danger of being SHOT??? By BULLETS??!?!

They go to FIGHT FIRES NOT BULLETS!!!!

The world of today is enough to drive people insane, real talk. This is SAD.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Vidpci
 


It is the policemans job to protect you from the Criminals


Correct, but politically incorrect. Their job is to show up after the shooting to investigate why it happened.

My recommendation is that the police should be called first to arrive at the scene of a fire BEFORE the firefighters get there.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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Arm firefighters. Arm every fire deptplace armed guards in every fire truck in the country.
edit on 24-12-2012 by FlySolo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by Skywatcher2011
 


In the US my understanding is that the Police are to "Protect and Serve" with protect being the key word. It is the detectives role to investigate the after effects of a crime. I think the difference here clearly is that of culture, Yanks feel that they need a gun to protect themselves wheras the Brits do not. It is as simple as that really, but that psudo protection comes at a price for you as has been seen time and time again in the News over in the USA.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Skywatcher2011
 


In the US my understanding is that the Police are to "Protect and Serve" with protect being the key word. It is the detectives role to investigate the after effects of a crime. I think the difference here clearly is that of culture, Yanks feel that they need a gun to protect themselves wheras the Brits do not. It is as simple as that really, but that psudo protection comes at a price for you as has been seen time and time again in the News over in the USA.


Michael, I have not logged in for a while, but rest assured, I have now logged in to whoop that a**. Slogans are catchy and easy to regurgitate, yet they often do not reflect reality. Cops are there to protect and serve? I disagree….. check out this bad boy,
Warren v. District of Columbia

In my town of 30,000, we have a total of police force of 29 sworn officers, 16 of which are patrol officers and 7 are sergeants...this means that only 23 are available for actual community policing. Now, on average, we will have 2-3 officers patrolling per shift....again, 2-3 patrolling per shift. That is only 2-3 "protectors" for every 10-12 hours. Obviously with budget cuts,law enforcement must become more of a reactive institution than they alreay are as they cut staffing, have less availability, and less resources.This should not make anyone feel safe. Now for a comparison, the metropolitan city of San Jose, CA has a population of 971,372 and a patrolling police force of less than 1200. Feel safe?

When taken in a logical context, it would be absurd to suggest that these institutions have the power, resources, and ability to protect the citizenry, not even taking into account that the police do not have a duty to protect. All of this suggests that it is more logical, intelligent, and effective to empower the citizenry and those that have the ability to be proactive, rather than reactive.
I am now done with you, please, enjoy your day.





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