Netanyahu: Jerusalem is ours, I don't care what the UN says

reply to post by FissionSurplus

The question is, why should the US continue to support this tiny little upstart country with 1/5 of our foreign aid budget so they can continue their land-grab and genocide?

They are afraid of what this area of the world could become if they weren't preoccupied with this Israel question.

A renewed Ottoman empire.

Once upon a time the middle east was all a part of a large Muslim empire. But their rulers got fat and stupid. They got involved in European wars and the empire shrank. Finally in World War 1 they backed the wrong side and were broken up for their troubles.

So what's the answer to your question? They are using Israel as a foil. A distraction.

Somebody realized awhile back that the tendency of this part of the world is to try to reunite it as a future empire. And could you imagine the power a "United States of the Middle east" could wield today?

Imagine the world if these guys ran it. Caliphate.

If Israel didn't exist this Caliphate would have existed years ago.

And sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture to understand the small ones.

Also look at this link and the picture. Link.

Wouldn't pork eating Crusader make a great avatar for someone?

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

No, now you're trying to process who I am through your preconceived notions.

Reality is I don't care for religion, nor do I care for your definition of evangelical (which I should add is only one type of evangelical in one country, with one language).

But I do take the Bible literally. And if you think yourself a prophet, then by all means, give me your list of what parts of the bible are true and what parts are false. Surely you, an English speaking young adult 2000 years after it was written, can interpret a 4000 year old Hebrew script. Surely you have the wisdom and knowledge to show us what is true and what is false in the Bible.

Hell, why stop there? Surely this great prophet can also interpret all of Islam, from across the other side of the world and in a different tongue. Surely he can interpret it all.

edit on 25-12-2012 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

"Reality is I don't care for religion" and then you say "But I do take the bible literally". Clearly an enormous contradiction from you. You think israel belongs only to jews, or at the very least should be dominated by jews, including jerusalem.

Definition of flip flopping and hypocrisy 101... How can you take the bible literally and not be a religious fanatic??

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


No no, don't change the subject. Show me what parts of the Bible are true and what parts are false, oh great prophet.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

No no, don't change the subject. Show me what parts of the Bible are true and what parts are false, oh great prophet.

I don't have to because I am not religious per say. I consider myself a christian spiritualist who more or less ignores the bible and all its misinformation, from centuries of mistranslations and controversial exclusions. I don't attend church very often either, just the bare minimum from peer pressure.

Your pathetic attempts at deflection are noted. Thanks!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


ha, and your pathetic attempts to call me a hypocrite while calling yourself a Christian who ignores the bible shall not succeed.

It seems we are at an block here.

So which one is the hypocrite here. The one claiming to be Christian without the bible, or the one claiming to be Christian without religion....

The two are very radically opposed. One is Christian by following God's supposed word, the other is Christian by following their own supposed word. Those are some steep differences.

Who can prove either wrong?

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

ha, and your pathetic attempts to call me a hypocrite while calling yourself a Christian who ignores the bible shall not succeed.

It seems we are at an block here.

So which one is the hypocrite here. The one claiming to be Christian without the bible, or the one claiming to be Christian without religion....

The two are very radically opposed. One is Christian by following God's supposed word, the other is Christian by following their own supposed word. Those are some steep differences.

Who can prove either wrong?

edit on 25-12-2012 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

I was born a christian so how can I renounce that? I am simply saying a lot of the religious teachings either are false or simply do not make sense to me, therefore I choose to ignore them. I am not forced to accept anything that I don't want to. Why should I? That is why I am not religious and choose spiritualism.

You on the other hand say you are not a relgious fanatic on one hand, YET claim to believe the bible word for word as though it is/was god's word. This is what fits the definition of hypocrisy. Why else would you care about the jews so much and their supposed promised land? Jews believe strictly in the old testament, while christians believe in both while putting more emphasis on the new testament.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

I was born a christian so how can I renounce that?

Are you seriously asking me this question? I was born Catholic. I became an atheist for a while. That's how you renounce it.

I am simply saying a lot of the religious teachings either are false or simply do not make sense to me, therefore I choose to ignore them.

This is ignorant. How much of your religious teachings are actually found in the Bible is a better question to ask. Have you actually read it? I've read about 70%-80%. Every time I get a question, I look it up and find an answer. These things make sense if you seek. If not, ask me and I'll tell you where and how it's spoken of.

If you're rejecting it, then you're not exactly good to call yourself Christian.

I am not forced to accept anything that I don't want to. Why should I? That is why I am not religious and choose spiritualism.

Spiritualism is just saying you think you know more than the words. It's making yourself god.

You on the other hand say you are not a relgious fanatic on one hand, YET claim to believe the bible word for word as though it is/was god's word.

The difference there is to seek and test all things and not to take it at face value. As I mentioned, I was an atheist for a while. A universalist for about a year after that. And there was another two years of testing and thinking after that before I fully trusted what God said.

A fanatic accepts what he's told without seeking or questioning. That is the difference. I questioned it. I seeked it. I found it to be true. There are some things I still am not sure on. I still seek them and try not to teach nor speak about them until I find something out. That is what makes me not a fanatic.

I accept the Bible as the word of God. The word of God. I also accept that I am an English speaker 2000 years after the word was conceived. So there is homework to be done to know for sure just what God was saying with relative sureness. I cannot know for certain that the English interpretation is correct. I know the original interpretation was correct, because it was not an interpretation. It was a written down fact by either the person speaking or one of his scribes.

Luckily because it is God's word, the originals still exist in some form or another. Be it by the old churches in Syria, the dead sea scrolls, or the various places the word was preserved. And from that, combined with the wisdom of Judaic customs and the knowledge of the Old Testament, it becomes quite simple what God was saying. And it becomes quite clear as well.

This is what fits the definition of hypocrisy.

Not really. Hypocrisy is claiming to be something but not following what it said. that would be you.

Why else would you care about the jews so much and their supposed promised land?

Because then God would be a liar. And if God is a liar, he is not true.

Jews believe strictly in the old testament, while christians believe in both while putting more emphasis on the new testament.

False. That is your understanding of a Christian, which I remind you is one kind of Christian, in one location, and one language, 2000 years after Christ came. And as far as I can tell, most American Christians are very very very wrong. If you are unwilling to seek out the source, then the reality is you're neither Christian nor spiritual. You're an individual half the world away making it up as you go along because it's what "feels" right.

You're just your own god, frankly. And nothing else matters for you seemingly.

reply to post by spangledbanner


I'm american , born and raised, but i fully
agree with you.

I do not understand why our govt is doing the crap it
is doing, what is going on with isreal that is so special?
Why as a country are we doing the crap we are doing...

i just dont get it, our govt seems to have to stick its nose in
everything everywhere and for some reason they have picked
Isreal as their lil step child to look after... there has to be some
pieces that we the citizens do not know about.

reply to post by severdsoul


As it was mentioned, Israel is a foil. But I would add there have been some very good returns on the investment in Israel. As, I will add, there have been equally measurable returns for our investment in other middle eastern countries such as Qatar and elsewhere. The things we are building there on oil money are freaking ridiculous. And if we do get good returns, we may find a solution to oil, in an oil producing country.

But it is part of a greater desire to control the economy of the region. You could argue, then, it is for oil. But that's sort of just a large part of many other issues.

America thinks that fighting there makes us safe here. You see that in every policy. From trying to ban guns, to the war on drugs, to the war on terror. It's part of a larger failure in US culture in general.

Originally posted by Gorman91

Spiritualism is just saying you think you know more than the words. It's making yourself god.

No that is preposterous of you to state. God is god, satan is satan, angels are angels, demons are demons. I am who I am. I simply dislike the official church and question its inconsistancies, especially in regard to controversial material. It has omitted stuff, mistranslated stuff, and generally made spiritualism dysfunctional.

The difference there is to seek and test all things and not to take it at face value. As I mentioned, I was an atheist for a while. A universalist for about a year after that. And there was another two years of testing and thinking after that before I fully trusted what God said.

A fanatic accepts what he's told without seeking or questioning. That is the difference. I questioned it. I seeked it. I found it to be true. There are some things I still am not sure on. I still seek them and try not to teach nor speak about them until I find something out. That is what makes me not a fanatic.

Wow. First a catholic, then an atheist, then a universalist. How is it possible to reconcile such extremes?

Why else would you care about the jews so much and their supposed promised land?

Because then God would be a liar. And if God is a liar, he is not true.

Satan/Lucifer is the one known to constantly lie about nearly everything. How do you know you have not been mislead? You really want to go down this rabbit hole that is nearly endless and a preposterous waste of time?

Please do tell me where the ancient alien hypothesis meets with the bible. Do tell me what angels, god, demons, satan/lucifer are. Do tell me why the council of nicea decided to strip information from the official list.

Why we worship on sunday(day of the sun) rather than on sabbath? Why we need to perform sacrifices, be them mild/moderate/severe and how this is not a continuation of pagan worship? What role the elohim and nephelim play?

Originally posted by ntech
reply to post by FissionSurplus

 

The question is, why should the US continue to support this tiny little upstart country with 1/5 of our foreign aid budget so they can continue their land-grab and genocide?

They are afraid of what this area of the world could become if they weren't preoccupied with this Israel question.

A renewed Ottoman empire.

Once upon a time the middle east was all a part of a large Muslim empire. But their rulers got fat and stupid. They got involved in European wars and the empire shrank. Finally in World War 1 they backed the wrong side and were broken up for their troubles.

So what's the answer to your question? They are using Israel as a foil. A distraction.

Somebody realized awhile back that the tendency of this part of the world is to try to reunite it as a future empire. And could you imagine the power a "United States of the Middle east" could wield today?

Imagine the world if these guys ran it. Caliphate.

If Israel didn't exist this Caliphate would have existed years ago.

And sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture to understand the small ones.

Also look at this link and the picture. Link.

Wouldn't pork eating Crusader make a great avatar for someone?

edit on 25-12-2012 by ntech because: (no reason given)

So tell us which religion makes sense! Is it christianity, islam, judaism, hinduism, buddhism, sikhism, confusism, paganism?? There can only be ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH! Which is it? How do aliens fit in the picture? Thanks!

Also why is it preferable to have fanatic jews running the middle east on behalf of america(as you put it) rather than muslims running the middle east on behalf of russia? How is it kool to substitute one oxymoron for another oxymoron?

Thanks!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

No that is preposterous of you to state. God is god, satan is satan, angels are angels, demons are demons. I am who I am. I simply dislike the official church and question its inconsistancies, especially in regard to controversial material. It has omitted stuff, mistranslated stuff, and generally made spiritualism dysfunctional.

Because you're going with what the west has given you rather than go back to the source.

Wow. First a catholic, then an atheist, then a universalist. How is it possible to reconcile such extremes?

By having a diversified set of opinions for which to reason from and solve a problem, as well as have a competition of ideas in my head to understand issues that need complex reasoning to solve.

Satan/Lucifer is the one known to constantly lie about nearly everything. How do you know you have not been mislead? You really want to go down this rabbit hole that is nearly endless and a preposterous waste of time?

I'll go down as deep you're willing to go, but it is possibly off topic here.

Suffice to say, there are ways to check, if you are willing to believe the word.

Please do tell me where the ancient alien hypothesis meets with the bible. Do tell me what angels, god, demons, satan/lucifer are. Do tell me why the council of nicea decided to strip information from the official list.

Shall I pm you? I know these things. I know how to source them in the Bible, and even other bible-related books like Enoch. But I should say you are false to say the council of Nicea stripped out things. Once again, that is your western viewpoint from 2000 years after the event. The council of Nicea's goal was to focus on writing the Bible for the salvation of man, and it did that through looking at the writing styles, sources, and origins of the books available at the time. This is actually quite clear if you go back to the original language. They did not delete books. They had all those other books then, and they continued to be in use, even quoted in the Bible and by the scholars of the time.

What you've failed to realize is that after the Council of Nicea, a little something called the fall of western civilization occurred. Which, as is a tendency for the fall of civilizations, included the destruction or loss of most bodies of information. That happened to include most books not included in the bible. We occasionally find these books, such as in the dead sea scrolls. And a careful observation of them reveals why they were left out. They did not deal with the salvation of man, and some of them seem to be flat out fraudulent.


I remind you again. The bible was not written to be a history book. It was written for the salvation of man. Books not pertaining to this subject were not included, because they were off topic. You wouldn't put Charles Darwin's origin of species in a physics book any more than you would put the book of Enoch in the Bible.


This is also, fyi, why sets of books not pertaining to the salvation of man, but instead the history of the people, such as the Jewish Talmud, have more books than the Bible. Because they are books pertaining to another subject matter. Namely, the history and order of the cultural ways of the Jewish people.

Now for whatever divine reason, the Bible survived. And I believe there is a reason for that.

Why we worship on sunday(day of the sun) rather than on sabbath? Why we need to perform sacrifices, be them mild/moderate/severe and how this is not a continuation of pagan worship? What role the elohim and nephelim play?

Congratulations, everything you mentioned is not the focus of the bible, and for the most part, not demanded of by the Bible.

I repeat. Please ask yourself what you believe is actually in scripture, and not merely a cultural construct of yourself, your parents, or your cultural origins. It makes things a helluva lot easier to understand.

reply to post by Gorman91


Salvation of man from who or what?

And how is talking about the universal truth off-topic in relation to the bible, which supposedly exists for this purpose, unless of course you are willing to admit the bible is NOT about the truth/reality.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07



Well actually the part of the bible that would be on topic is not this.

But to answer your question, salvation from many things. The current chaos, the chaos of the past, and the chaos to come. Now that, I will admit, has its connection to your questions on Nephilim, the devil, and and many others. But that is very very off topic.

I have no authority to call the Bible truth. I only can say my testing and wrestling with it has proven it so. And if you wish to ask me how I can resolve my own diverse past, well there's the proof. I have wrestled with it. In many different ways. And I've come to my peace.

It is about truth and reality.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Well actually the part of the bible that would be on topic is not this.

Because there is too much disconnected from the source misinformation and wrestling with it becomes pointless.

But to answer your question, salvation from many things. The current chaos, the chaos of the past, and the chaos to come. Now that, I will admit, has its connection to your questions on Nephilim, the devil, and and many others. But that is very very off topic.

People should be studying lucifer/satan and his deception techniques, not arguing which man made religion is better than the other. Nothing off-topic about this at all. Divide and conquer is a proven strategy for evil. I am not saying we need to be the same because clearly we have our differences and difference is good, but we are focusing on the wrong apsects of cosmology.

I have no authority to call the Bible truth. I only can say my testing and wrestling with it has proven it so. And if you wish to ask me how I can resolve my own diverse past, well there's the proof. I have wrestled with it. In many different ways. And I've come to my peace.

I respect your opinions regardless if we agree or disagree. From my experience religion is bad and spiritualism is good.

It is about truth and reality.

edit on 25-12-2012 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

There must be certain or many aspects of the bible that are based on truth. Seperating the wheat from the chaff is no easy chore eventhough I did try to nitpick some details to make a case for bible and religion(s) being misinformation intended to control and deceive.

I think the bottom line is when people look at the trees they cannot see the forest.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Because there is too much disconnected from the source misinformation and wrestling with it becomes pointless.

It is that disconnect that makes the source material something more. If you're unwilling to look at where it came from, it is no wonder you don't trust the thing you have.

People should be studying lucifer/satan and his deception techniques, not arguing which man made religion is better than the other. Nothing off-topic about this at all. Divide and conquer is a proven strategy for evil. I am not saying we need to be the same because clearly we have our differences and difference is good, but we are focusing on the wrong apsects of cosmology.

From where I'm standing, not one religion has actually used the Bible 100%. They always add their own "spiritualism" to it.

There is no reason to study Lucifer when it is clear he has succeeded. Just go back to the source material. It's really that simple.

I respect your opinions regardless if we agree or disagree. From my experience religion is bad and spiritualism is good.

From my experience, you're no different than the catholic church. Neither of you wish to actually look at the source material. What's there to be afraid of?

There must be certain or many aspects of the bible that are based on truth. Seperating the wheat from the chaff is no easy chore eventhough I did try to nitpick some details to make a case for bible and religion(s) being misinformation intended to control and deceive.

Nitpicking is what religion does. The Bible is quite beautiful. Old and new testament. They both have a lot to say and both are vehemently ignored by every religion on Earth. America is so very guilty of this. Did you know the company that owns Fox News publishes its own English Bible? Did you know this is currently one of the more popular bibles? You are deceived. You are right about this. But you don't even want to look at the source material, so you stay deceived.

Why would you desire this?

I think the bottom line is when people look at the trees they cannot see the forest.

The trees and the forest are on fire. There's no reason to stay.

reply to post by Gorman91


So what is your point? Do you have one other than "study the bible"?

When the disconnected bible starts talking about aliens(both good and bad) and the situation about earth, then maybe I will be inclined to give it more than just a glance.

In fact there are many versions of the bible and the king james version is said to be the best. I have no way to verify and to be frank I don't even care.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Then you really shouldn't be calling yourself Christian. You should be calling yourself an extraterrestrial worshiper.

And Aliens are not relevant for salvation. Do you want to know what the Bible says about them? There was trade. That's about it. It also mentions that the nephilim were created here, and left Earth, and they'll be back one day.

Aliens are not relevant for salvation, so there is very little mention of them. There's more about them in what remains of the other books, like Enoch.

I'm sorry to tell you, but the Bible agrees with what scientists think. We're just not that important in the grand scheme of the cosmos. We are one planet like billions of others, barely out of the cradle. We are like ants to the rest. To be stepped on or looked at. Nobody tries talking to ants. At least not for a prolonged time.


And the King James version is not the best. Furthermore, it is not the original language. So why would you trust a translation that came over a thousand years after it was written down in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.

How can you call yourself spiritual if you're unwilling to look at other languages?


As for my point, that depends. My point for Jerusalem is that it is owned by those that can defend it. My point on this tangent is that you really are not as seeking as you are ignoring a lot and assuming yourself right far too often.

Blood is thicker than water. But oil is thicker than both

reply to post by Gorman91


Thanks for reminding me you have no coherent message aka point. Reading the bible is like reading a novel, it can be mildely entertaining but at the end of the day you know nothing more about reality than what you knew before reading it. It is like listening to nasa and their constant bs. Or listening to democrats and republicans. They all lower your iq substantially!

Salvation has to do with learning the truth and using it to your advantage. Learning about reptillians, greys, nordics, pleadians. Learning about underground bases. Learning about the babylonian mystics that hide under zionism aka "the illuminati". Learning about the wealth distribution on the planet and how lopsided it currently is.