A list of already debunked theories, re: Sandy hook

reply to post by DarKPenguiN

You brought up that this was the "low" point and I asked for the high point In your opinion
You said we were just "throwing things out there to see what sticks" so I was wondering if you could point me to a time ofr a thread where that was not happening and you found your conclusive proof.

My theory? The Police dropped the ball and some of those Children would be alive had they not and there is a coverup going on-

The the national Agenda (not of gun control) but of confusion and of expanding the grid and mental health Services (along with "FEAR") is being pushed to the max.

That right now we know very little and should know a whole lot more.'

Thats my Theory for what its worth.

And its as valid as any theory anywhere on this Forum (unless something has been solved or proven here that I am unaware of)

Well thanks for your theory just wish you had more than your spidey sense to back it up.

Anyway the best thread dealing with this subject IMO was the one where we reviewed the recording of the weapon taken out of the trunk and 99% identified it as a Seiga shotgun and not a bushmaster but the thread was soon ruined by those interested only in fitting the evidence to their theory instead of correctly identifying the weapon. There will always be someone who does that but it can really bring down a thread.

reply to post by frazzle


I suspect that part of the reason medical personnel were not allowed any closer than the Fire-station is because Police were still searching the school, woods, and surrounding area for a possible second shooter. Until they were 100% absolutely CERTAIN that the grounds were clear, and safe, they couldn't risk letting additional people into the area.

This is, I think, the same reason that we hear people saying that there was "no evacuation" -- if police were concerned about a second shooter outside of the school (in the woods?) or in the area, then evacuating children out of the school might actually make them LESS safe than keeping them inside.

I think that a large portion of the oddities surrounding the response stem from the fact that even the police were not 100% convinced that this was lone-gunman until well into the afternoon.

reply to post by TheCanuckian

It's very vague and all encompassing.

It's not all that vague. The staff is tired of the incredible number of 'new' threads regarding the story line. The little details that news agencies always screw up being turned into a conspiracy hunt. It appears these threads are more about internet ego and a desire for attention which is disgusting. Posting the home address and outing a man that helped protect children, implying that he is a paid actor is incredibly low.

Seems like a preemptive effort to squash all discussions on Sandy Hook. People want to get to the bottom of this and find the truth and you are deflecting everyone from it.

That is absurd. Look at all the ridiculous threads that have remained open.

However in the past, observations of this nature resulted in out right banning. So I won't be surprised if I find my account banned tomorrow.

I've never seen someone banned for disagreeing or making an observation. I don't find any of the admins here to be petty. Ive complained and whined and started threads and have never been banned for those particular offenses.

Thanks for this message in my Inbox, although I have done nothing really to participate in these discussions and tried hard to steer clear due to the nature, I want to thank you for bringing this to my attention on Christmas day of all days.

The sender stated they were sorry to have to do this today of all days and that if you had adopted a high standard or hadn't participated in the discussions they were sorry for the message.

*farts*

Did you eat the same Christmas ham as me? I need to find a way to harness my Domo diesel.

reply to post by DarKPenguiN
Indeed and I don't think UN Arms Treaty is an issue right now. However, fact is gun control is now the number one topic in America one month after re-election (this is one heck of a coincidence), so some of what they went on to claim in that article is technically plausible.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by DarKPenguiN

 

You brought up that this was the "low" point and I asked for the high point In your opinion
You said we were just "throwing things out there to see what sticks" so I was wondering if you could point me to a time ofr a thread where that was not happening and you found your conclusive proof.

My theory? The Police dropped the ball and some of those Children would be alive had they not and there is a coverup going on-

The the national Agenda (not of gun control) but of confusion and of expanding the grid and mental health Services (along with "FEAR") is being pushed to the max.

That right now we know very little and should know a whole lot more.'

Thats my Theory for what its worth.

And its as valid as any theory anywhere on this Forum (unless something has been solved or proven here that I am unaware of)

Well thanks for your theory just wish you had more than your spidey sense to back it up.

Anyway the best thread dealing with this subject IMO was the one where we reviewed the recording of the weapon taken out of the trunk and 99%identified it as a Seiga shogun and not a bushmaster but the thread was soon ruined by those interested only in fitting the evidence to their theory instead of correctly identifying the weapon. There will always be someone who does that but it can really bring down a thread.

I do have more than a sopidey sense and have discussed it.

SOP was not followed.

Entry/egress control not followed

Swat claimed the "school was clear" and four hours late uniformed officers found a closet full of people...

Damn, i could go on but I am tired of it- These are MAJOR issues which probably cost live(s) and lawsuits would kill the community if negligence is found.

This is a plausible theory with circumstantial evidence.

So I think I might have to look at your post history and see what "fact" you bring into any conversation (and not just your spider sense")
EDIT: lets also add SOP not followed with the guy "in the woods" and the "SMS alert" which put parents in the middle of a chaotic crime scene (compromising actual evidence) as they arrived about right behind Police-

There is more but really??? This should be enough to se the total amateur job that was done here and it doesnt take a genius to figure out that with that many known (and basic) mistakes- there are unknowns and extra lives possibly (Probably IMO) lost...

Originally posted by TheCanuckian
reply to post by Springer

 

My goodness...

Springer. While I admire your efforts with this web site, you don't do yourself any favor with strong language, condescending attitude and it only causes more of a problem then it solves. You get more bees with honey then vinegar.
Spokesman have tact and know how to make a point without being insulting or singling any people out.

This action seems more like bullying then leadership. Take it as you will, criticism is mostly vinegar to the controllers. It's honey to the creators.

He's had a rough week, Canuckian. I think this Sandy Hook fiasco has been giving ATS some unpleasant attention... and then you have curmudgeons like me pressing for less restrictions on content, and it all makes for one big headache. I thought he was articulate, and although he did make some rather less than decorous suggestions about my motivations (*ahem*) he was subtle about it, and couched his statements with a general projection of goodwill.

So, all in all, I took no offense.

Originally posted by Domo1

*farts*

Did you eat the same Christmas ham as me? I need to find a way to harness my Domo diesel.

Ok, this time I spit out my Christmas coffee!

Originally posted by RedBird
reply to post by frazzle

 

I suspect that part of the reason medical personnel were not allowed any closer than the Fire-station is because Police were still searching the school, woods, and surrounding area for a possible second shooter. Until they were 100% absolutely CERTAIN that the grounds were clear, and safe, they couldn't risk letting additional people into the area.

This is, I think, the same reason that we hear people saying that there was "no evacuation" -- if police were concerned about a second shooter outside of the school (in the woods?) or in the area, then evacuating children out of the school might actually make them LESS safe than keeping them inside.

I think that a large portion of the oddities surrounding the response stem from the fact that even the police were not 100% convinced that this was lone-gunman until well into the afternoon.

You'd have to show me a crime scene where injured people were denied IMMEDIATE medical care and died because of it. I've never heard of such a thing and it would end in some high dollar wrongful death suits against any police department that did so.

Crime scene and physical evidence awareness for non-forensic ...

(i.e. the access is limited to personnel playing an essential role in the crime scene investigation and in the medical care of victims present at the scene) , ...

www.unodc.org... documents/ scientific/ Crime_scene_awareness__Ebook.pdf

On the evacuation of the school ... they eventually had to leave, so when did it happen? Did anyone see hundreds of kids leaving the school? Newtown must be advertising for reporters and photographers.

Originally posted by bknapple32
reply to post by idunno12

 

You are a member of his site. His rules. It doesnt matter if this site has grown to epic proportions. The rules have always remained the same. Nothing needs to change. If you want to discuss a horrific tragedy, and make it a conspiracy. (And yes make ita conspiracy, because mis reading 'evidence' you honestly dont know anything about, me too, is leaping to conclusions.) Then make your own website.

Again. SO isnt ranting, hes pleading. Pleading with his members to remember why they are here in the first place. And it certainly is not to do what has been going on in the SH threads

edit on 25-12-2012 by bknapple32 because: (no reason given)

bknapple...

I am well aware that this is his site and that these are his rules. In fact, I pretty much stated that in my post. I don't recall saying that I "want to" discuss a "horrific tragedy". Nor did I ever say that I "want to make my own website". I have no idea where you are getting any of that from what I said. What I said was that if things aren't going the way that S.O. (and others) want them to go, then change them. If people are breaking the rules then bring the hammer down on them. If the rules don't cover what is causing S.O. and the site owners so much grief, then make them so that they do.

Basically what i said was...just do it. Take care of business and stop dragging it out. I really had no idea most of this was going on until I received the angry message in my inbox. I perused the thread a bit and then left, because I don't personally feel the need to participate in it.

So, you telling me to "go make my own website", bknapple, really doesn't fit here.

I really like ATS. I have read a lot of interesting things here and have learned a lot of things that I didn't know before. I am positive that it took a tremendous amount of work, dedication, money, and time to create what it is today. I wouldn't trade places with the site owners for anything in the world. And I agree that anyone who says "I will just go make my own site" is very naive.

But I do think that the site administrators are letting emotion get in the way of their objectivity. They should stop "pleading" as you put it, bknapple, and just take care of the issues. If people are breaking the rules then for the love of pete just put a stop to it.

What is the point of continuing discussions on it. The end result has already been decided. The site owners have made their stance clear. So why are they still discussing it? And why are they dragging people into it (all the people whom received the angry email) who had no intention of participating in it?

For the sake of clarity, that "angry email" was sent to every single active ATS member. It was a global message.

~Heff

reply to post by Grimpachi





Wait what? I was called?...and ideally this thread has no chance at continuing with the OP, should make this two threads. But clearly there is a fine line, no one should be posting personal information.

(and I still don't think the TOS clarifies that very well, in my opinion)


But speaking of posting personal information:

NY Paper posts every gun permit holder in the paper.

www.lohud.com...

reply to post by DarKPenguiN

I do have more than a sopidey sense and have discussed it.

SOP was not followed.

That’s great let’s have a discussion oh and BTW its spidey sense.

So can you tell me where you got a copy of their SOP? I know each department will have customized SOPs with basic guidelines. What did they not follow in theirs exactly?

Can you tell me how often that department trains for those situations? Have they ever trained for such an incident that happened?

Do you know if the SOP is used as guideline or do they allow for workarounds most forces will adapt to the situation in my experience?

Who told you they didn’t follow procedure is that source reliable have they worked in that field had a similar experience or is it your expertise and what is your background if so?

Entry/egress control not followed

Please expand on that can you be exact? What did they do wrong?

Swat claimed the "school was clear" and four hours late uniformed officers found a closet full of people...

What is your source is it reliable? How is it they missed the room is the room easy or hard to miss? Did the teacher pick the room because it was mostly hidden? What kind of sweep did the police do thorough or quick?
Do you know if that will be in the official report? Sources stating that?

Damn, i could go on but I am tired of it- These are MAJOR issues which probably cost live(s) and lawsuits would kill the community if negligence is found.

This is a plausible theory with circumstantial evidence.

Right now it just sounds like they rushed in possibly and understandably in a frenzy considering the horrific circumstances and maybe didn’t follow the SOP step by step. I haven’t heard anything yet that makes a conspiracy but please tell more after you expand on your initial assessment.

So I think I might have to look at your post history and see what "fact" you bring into any conversation (and not just your spider sense")

Fine by me all my posts are for all who are interested.

Oh OK you got it spidey sense.:lol

Originally posted by frazzle
You'd have to show me a crime scene where injured people were denied IMMEDIATE medical care and died because of it.

At Columbine, math teacher Dave Sanders was denied medical care for hours until he bled out and died in the school. His family did launch a lawsuit which was eventually settled out of court.

Originally posted by frazzleOddly enough medical personnel are forced to set up their operation not at the school where the dead and injured lay, but rather at the fire station several hundred feet away. This flies in the face of standard medical operating procedure where personnel are situated as close to the scene as possible. There is no doubt that the school had ample room to accommodate such personnel. Yet medical responders who rushed to Sandy Hill Elementary upon receiving word of the tragedy were denied entry to the school and forced to set up primary and secondary triages off school grounds and wait for the injured to be brought to them.

Shortly after the shooting “as other ambulances from neighboring communities rolled up, sirens blaring, the first responders slowly realized that their training would be tragically underutilized on this horrible day. ‘You may not be able to save everybody, but you damn well try,’” 44 year old emergency medical technician James Wolff told NBC News. “’And when (we) didn’t have the opportunity to put our skills into action, it’s difficult.’”[9]

www.globalresearch.ca...

There is no excuse for this.


What's even more incredible is that 6 children were able to make a bee-line out of the school after the last people had been killed...while police were there...towards all those stacked-up rescue personnel without anyone seeing them...and without the neighbor next to the firestation taking the kids that had collected in his driveway...next to the firestation, there...since the place was crawling with rescue personnel

reply to post by swansong19


You will find that situations like that are not like the movies, I am not surprised at all that happened.

Originally posted by frazzle
Why Were Medical Personnel Turned Away From the Crime Scene?

The article raised a valid question--who exactly pronounced those victims to be deceased, and when?

Thanks for your list of debunked theories OP. Saves me the trouble of having to think for myself.

reply to post by starviego
I'd love to see evidence of movement of any casualty, alive or otherwise that day.
How many survivors were there?

Yet the road was immediately packed, and the scene played out with a few stretchers moving around doing nothing, no heroic efforts? No ambulances rushing to the hospital?

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by swansong19

 

You will find that situations like that are not like the movies, I am not surprised at all that happened.

Well I certainly am. If you have some other examples similar I'd appreciate seeing them.

I mean...wow...how did all those rescue vehicles not see the kids (leaving the scene of a mass shooting...at the end of his driveway...by the street...next to the firestation?