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Who am I? **A Story of the Struggle for Spiritual Liberation**

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posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:41 PM
reply to post by DwindlingHope

I wasn't referring to you at all. You presented thoughtful questions. I had no issue with your participation.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:47 PM
Dear friends,

There are truths in much of what is written in the OP, and credit is to be given to the author for his (or her, I'll assume for simplicity's sake this is a 'he') excellent writing. I, too, resonate with the information regarding spiritual freedom and conscious creation, the expansive abilities of our minds.

However, it seems little in the OP is revelatory. The OP is a personal story about the journey of the author. Many on ATS have written similarly themed threads over the years, infusing their personal tales of out of body experiences with spiritual insights, and these are all without fail followed by zealotry and skepticism in responses by members who are alternatively attuned to or opposed to the subject matter and tone.

One commonality I've noted among nearly all of these threads is on full display here. The OP claims to be making revelations, yet the author refuses to identify himself by name, and there is almost always a limit to the revelatory information the author is willing to share (especially if it would verify his stories, it seems) because he feel it puts the site, the reader, or himself at risk.

In this thread the author made his stand here:

"There are certain things that went on, that if I posted here today, would immediately result in a seizure of this web site for “national security” reasons, the information deleted, and information about which IP addresses viewed the material would be analyzed for further “action.” I am simply not going to post anything that I believe may put anyone at risk; it is not going to happen so don’t even ask."

After which the author speaks to why he won't share details of his identity, although he tells stories involving other people who (assuming they exist) could possibly read this thread and out him:

"There was a point at which I learned, the very hard way, that it is simply not a wise idea in this day and age to publicize the fact that you can attain a state of out-of-body awareness, without maintaining some degree of anonymity."

These kinds of statements immediately cast doubt on the voracity of the poster's claims, and fan the flames of internal argument and dissent which always follows, drowning out any reasonable consideration among this constituency.

It's a shame, really, because it just feeds into the stigma surrounding "new agers," or train of thought around spiritual growth and freedom beyond more prevalent patriarchal paradigms and dogmas.
edit on 24-12-2012 by Exsisto because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:03 PM
reply to post by NorEaster

Then, by all means carry on. I never had a problem with either of you, other than the way you made it sound as if contrary opinions didn't matter to you either. Which is why I stepped in and said what I did.. I'm only a mediator here guys, don't shoot the messenger of peace.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:03 PM
Come on guys. You're arguing back and forth like little children. It's boring and from what I read... all three of you are both right, and wrong... so lets call it a draw... and live with it for awhile. Nothing is written in stone and none of us Know anything for sure.

But I do believe that doing something about those Egos might be a good start.

Merry Christmas.
edit on 24-12-2012 by Brown Bear because: add egos

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:09 PM
reply to post by NorEaster

No worries, as I said, I didn't think you were referring to me personally. It was only the accusation I outlined that rubbed me the wrong way for some reason, even if it wasn't directed at me.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:26 PM

Originally posted by DwindlingHope
reply to post by NorEaster

No worries, as I said, I didn't think you were referring to me personally. It was only the accusation I outlined that rubbed me the wrong way for some reason, even if it wasn't directed at me.

I have grown somewhat protective of the younger minds that lurk here, and never post at all. For every poster, there are at least several dozen readers over the course of the thread. Dramatic claims draw attention, and some (not all) young minds can be affected by eloquence and confidence on display within a post - and especially within a series of related threads - which is what has been the case with this specific OP's loud arrival to our ;little community. I read a lot of very confused and malleable thoughts on this board, and those are the thoughts that belong to minds that are confident enough of those thoughts to register and share them with the community. I have to believe that there are many more minds that are equally "flexible" and searching for an anchor, that will never register here or express their ideas here. And still, they exist and wander within whatever version of reality has won out over all the others they've become exposed to. My concern is always for those minds, and their right to experience a full presentation - pro and con - of any and all trains of thought.

My work goes on in other places, and this is my hangout. This is where I relax and enjoy myself (well, as much as that is possible, I suppose). I don't like it when I suspect a predator within my place of relaxation. So, I watch, and I lightly challenge here and there. I'm like a Doberman. I'll allow you to come in, but I may not allow you to leave with all your appendages.
It'll always depend on why you're here.
edit on 12/24/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:28 PM
reply to post by Brown Bear

But I do believe that doing something about those Egos might be a good start.

And for this, you deserve a star. Good job!

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:36 PM

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
Well considering we have a number of members who practiced OBE/Astral Projection, and possibly remote viewing...I don't think that everybody who jumped on his proverbial bandwagon, is the mindless robots or sheep you make them out to be.

Excuse you, but I never made anyone out to be mindless robots.

We never said either that alternate opinions were unwelcome; however it is different thing altogether to act as if that is the only one that matters.

Which is the point I've been trying to convey with each of my posts.

I am not bashing NorEaster, or LesMisanthrope;


I'm saying they should be careful of how they present their opinions, because it could be seen as insensitive and hypocritical to the people with contrary opinions to theirs.

Also one of the points I've been trying to make. You speak as if only people who disagree with the OP in various degrees are the only ones acting this way.

It's really not that hard to understand man.

I know, which is why I understood before you felt the need to explain something that I've already been saying.
edit on 24-12-2012 by forgetmenot because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:38 PM

Thank you for posting this thread.

I have good news for you. There is still a place where consciousness studies are undertaken every day--where tried and true methods to induce OBEs are utilized to good effect.

That place is The Monroe Institute in Faber, VA.

Many people are (justifiably) skeptical of any type of "spiritual program" that costs money. However, you get A LOT for your money at TMI.

I graduated the Gateway Voyage program back in 2003 at the cost of $2500 which includes meals (good food) and lodging.

TMI is now under different management. However, the programs are untampered with as far as I know.

If you don't know much about TMI or the methodology used, please see Robert A. Monroe's three books. I have personally met Robert A. Monroe. He was not "alive" in the traditional sense at that time. That's the truth. But I realize that this is the part in my post where you'll probably dismiss me as being nuts.

Truth be told, the simple techniques I learned from TMI (and subsequently modified for my own purposes) have led yo many "bizarre" experiences and many OBEs.

Thanks again for this thread. I learned a lot.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:47 PM
reply to post by SimultaneousFinal

I had been wondering when someone would bring up Monroe.

And I am glad that you did.

How could Apocryphon not not mention Monroe? It was the Monroe Institute, after all, that trained Hal Puthoff's people at Ft. Meade.

To all on the thread:

See how it makes a circle and eats its tail?

Are you folks beginning to see how this is a game of add-on, like on a long car drive?

If not, don't worry, I am going to stick around to explain it.
edit on 24-12-2012 by Xoanon because:

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:02 PM
reply to post by NorEaster

You guys, who just registered in the last couple months, you're all a posse, aren't you.

I have observed this and other like minded forums since 1999. After the world didn't end (yet again), I decided to become a member now that I have some free time.

Perhaps recent events have led to an influx of new members, or perhaps everyone who shares a different belief system than yourself is conspiring against you. If the latter is true I wish you the best dealing with the "others".

You never know though right?

I could be an old member who decided to make a new avatar to hide behind after my 2012 predictions failed to manifest.

There are plenty of reasons ATS is seeing an increase of new members, I can only speculate on the reasons why.

It's pretty weird that L. Ron Hubbard's name has suddenly popped up within this prophet's narrative, but then again, it makes sense that Scientologist would come here fishing for blindsided 2012 adherents in the aftermath of the failure of the Mayan prophesy.

Was it mentioned?

No disrespect towards the OP but I only read the first page of his story. It was well written and quite interesting, but from my perspective it's the same old song and dance. ~ no disrespect intended OP ~

Once that happens, these "open minds" are going to see Tom Cruise and all that weirdness associated with Scientology drop right down in front of their eyes.

I didn't want to come out with this but I'll go against my better judgement and share something that could get me in trouble.

Please be careful who you show that too ok?

It also makes sense that guys like you would suddenly show up to second the notion of that other new guy who's job is obviously to be the Piped Piper in this operation.

Could you please explain in further detail "guys like you"?

I am just words on the screen to you ~ you could possibly use my avatar on the left to judge my intentions and character ~ though it could only be an attempt at a subtle deception on my part. I have learned to not trust everything my eyes see.

Have you?

This is our community, and we do look out for each other around here. We deny ignorance here, and we know that ignorance shows up here wearing many different costumes. We've gotten pretty good at detecting it.

Have you really?

From my place of observation it appears you are either stuck in the "Us vs. Them" hive mentality, or you are purposely trying to spread this meme throughout our community.

Dear "Us vs. Them" paradigm...

The word our is all inclusive right? I would ask you to click the above link, but it is by a member here that could be part of our agenda.

Existent or nonexistent "agendas" aside, I wish you the best trying to further your agenda, whatever that may or may not be. I am sure you have a reason for being here, we all do.

Take care.


We deny ignorance here, and we know that ignorance shows up here wearing many different costumes.

I love that red hoody your avatar is wearing! Hopefully it keeps you protected from the rain, or any NorEaster winds you may get swept up in.


edit on 24-12-2012 by YourOtherSelf because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:12 PM
For those who are not able to attend a residential program at TMI, I would recommend getting the Gateway Experience program on CDs. All the exercises are there. I bought these as a supplement to the residential program and I can verify that the exercises are identical.
The residential program is more efficient due to having counselors who can answer specific questions. But all the material is the same.

Some people are turned off to Monroe's exercises due to the overly simplistic imagery and "silliness" of some aspects (eg the "resonant energy balloon"). However, if the exercises were presented more solemnly, I would imagine that a new wacky religion would have sprung from Monroe's work. That's certainly not what he wanted.

If anyone is interested in the CDs, they are surely still available on TMI's website. You go through them at your own pace. In a work-a-day world where you can't just drop everything to do these exercises, I would estimate that it would take an average person 3-6 months to get through the program. It's time well spent.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:23 PM

Thank you for taking your time to share this information, I for one truly appreciate it and I hope you don't mind but I typed out a large synopsys of it that I will be printing and storing away for my three year old daughter. The things you spoke of are very real and amounts to our spiritual enslavement and also the keys to our freedom. This is my first post on ATS and your material incuced me to get off the fence. I want my daughter to know this material because it is true and because without it our lives will become meaningless.

Thank you again,


posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:31 PM

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE
Thank you brother for another thought provoking OP.

You speak of certain entities who are opposed to our spiritual freedom - care to eleborate on who/what those entities are, what do they gain by keeping us spiritually imprisoned, and what would they lose by us gaining spiritual freedom?

I would very much like to know the answer to that question as well, especially considering I've read from another source that those entities are in the process of being banned from our planet to a different, even more primitive orb.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:58 PM
reply to post by YourOtherSelf
That video is hilarious! I love it!
Star for you, though that deserves two!

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 05:02 PM

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by YourOtherSelf
That video is hilarious! I love it!
Star for you, though that deserves two!

I nearly peed my pants laughing at that one.

So serious..

edit on 24-12-2012 by YourOtherSelf because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 05:05 PM
This is why ATS is great—such contemptible vitriole and rhetoric yet not a single scratch upon us. We can walk away from our screens without a single ill thought plaguing us throughout the day. Not a single exchange is fruitless here and we should value that.

Now...let's break rank and have a beer.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 05:17 PM
reply to post by LesMisanthrope


posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:38 PM
Not an L Ron Hubbard fan. He had an affair with, and ran off with Jack Parson's wife, not to mention stealing a substantial amount of money (or property, i can't recall) from him, for which he was eventually sued for.

His own family (can't remember former wife? Or son or daughter..) wrote a book which did not say kind things about the man. There is a whole laundry list of fraud and other sketchy things that Hubbard did.

I don't care to link anything, the information is easy enough to confirm for anyone who wishes with a simple google or wikipedia search. Don't trust Hubbard or Scientology *at all*.

My own impression of course, to each his own i suppose. Have no more to say, other than i hope people do their own objective research and inner intuiting before forming any opinions, so that they may be as well informed as possible.

His science fiction was horrid also in my opinion. More of a Phil K. Dick fan myself, but hey that's just me.

Peace. ~

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:27 PM
reply to post by traveler76

Are you insane? get her to read Spot the Dog or for OPs story, having had a lot of OBEs myself I can say that the phenomenon is real .... however this feels all very fictional and dramatised. Nice creative writing though guy, you could be the next James Casbolt

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