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Who am I? **A Story of the Struggle for Spiritual Liberation**

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posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 02:40 AM
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

I wasn't trying to antagonize you or anything. Was merely pointing out that there are far better resources (even on the internet) which may be used at one's own discretion. I personally have a severe distaste for Wikipedia as I have been misled by that site far too many times, only to find out the truth (relatively speaking) through the cross-referencing of internet sources and books (my preferred research material as it's kinda hard to tamper with or edit hard text). I'm not saying you should go pour through textbooks before posting here, just merely saying in a roundabout way that Wikipedia is crap for anything but giving you a base for real research (the references at the end of every "item" can be useful....sometimes).

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:13 AM
reply to post by xXxinfidelxXx

My apologies.

I was assuming you found it funny that myself and 'skeptics of various natures' might use a trite source such as wikipedia when sourcing common facts. And I could've swore you told me to lighten up and take a trip. That's not antagonizing, that's pretty much a a round-about way of course.

Either way, I do agree with you.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 03:31 AM
I cant believe 5 pages in people are still arguing over the validity of the thread. I agree with an earlier poster that what the OP has said has resonated with me and I am interested in hearing more.
Everyone is entitled to their view, and as said before I would like to hear more and as such"' I ask Apocryphon
What are your views on Re-incarnation? Does it exist?
I have had a number of experiences, one being major dejavu being in a street I have never seen and finding out later it was where my Grandfather grew up. He died in 1943, 21 years before my birth.
Could that be some kind of Genetic Memory or was it my soul somehow remembering a possible past life in the same family.
P.S I dont think you are a guru, but I think you may have some insight.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 04:59 AM
Thanks again, OP. I have a few questions. Hope you find them relevant lol.

I'm going to entertain all that you have said and, hypothetically, believe it all. My questions are:

1. By what I can gather, quite clearly, you are encouraging us to attempt (through instructions you say are yet to come) an OBE. Wouldn't it be highly dangerous? Wouldn't that open us up to a new range of more advanced consciousnesses, that most people in this physical state can't perceive, if we were to achieve more "spiritual" awareness? Make us stick out like a sore thumb? And in turn might that leave us more open to be effected and manipulated by higher beings that could claim to be benevolent?

Ones might think, "Well yeah but there's danger in any exploration of the truth." But I'm thinking in terms of a simple lost soul who is tired of being deceived. I'm not saying that's what you're tying to do. I'd like very much to believe the opposite, I'm just saying. There's a part of me that just wants to turn away now and wait until I feel more "ready" to ponder these things but now I can't stop pondering.

All this talk of spiritual oppression leaves me to wonder, and feel wary. It's not that I don't want to try and broaden my bubble of average intelligence. It's just that I've become very careful. I grew up in a very dogmatic religion, so believe me, I want the real truth. When I pulled away from this religion, my first action in an attempt to rebel was turning to the very thing they had all my life discouraged -- the occult. Even when I got involved with that however, I still found much of the teachings to be foggy. This caused me to feel a great disappointment. Which leaves me very apprehensive when there is so much information out there created for the soul purpose of misleading us all into the "fog."

Now, going off the subject of OBE, I would appreciate an opinion here since you claim there is indeed an afterlife. I apologize in advance if you have already covered this before and I've just somehow overlooked it.

2. What about people who have "died" and yet claim there was nothing? What about when we go unconscious and there is nothing? Why is it that the conscious then does not in any way seem to perceive anything? Is that because of the (for lack of a better word) primitive state of the individual's awareness? They have not learned to perceive out of the physical state, so therefor when the physical state itself is restricted so is their "consciousness?" Or is it the other way around, because the spiritual side has been oppressed it can't function without the physical unless it is ... err ... reinstated into another, similar, physical form in which it can begin interacting once more. Okay now I'm getting dizzy.

Someone else mentioned dreams. But I personally have never found my dreams, (generally speaking) to be anything which would reflect a secondary reality. Most of the time they are just a jumbled ridiculous mess that makes no logical sense whatsoever lol. I have had lucid dreams rarely. But I always saw them as just an abstruse, metaphoric reflection of what's going on in my conscious state. Only the occasional dream seems to be more than a mess. But certainly not anything supernatural -- again for lack of a better word. Then again, I'm certainly no guru on dreams.

3. If past life does exist in your opinion, does that cancel out the theory of genetic memory? Because when friends say to me that they feel they've somehow "lived before" I've always been more inclined to lean towards the genetic memory side of the debate.

I think I'll stop there for now. I won't go into my own experiences or feelings because they are mundane (I don't say that to put myself down) and have already been explored -- in essence -- by the various users who have already commented.

And if any others here would like to tackle any of my questions I'm all open to other peoples suggestions.

I am interested, but with the utmost discretion I have to agree with others that this is all, for now, on a hypothetical basis. I still have so much of my own research to conduct. I've only really begun to turn away from the "mainstream" and seek alternatives to this reality. But anything further you can present will be considered by me, and the others here too who are obviously keen.
edit on 24/12/12 by DwindlingHope because: More thoughts added.

edit on 24/12/12 by DwindlingHope because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 05:14 AM
reply to post by Apocryphon

Thank you for sharing your story, I really enjoyed reading throughout it.

I'm thinking a lot about OBEs and other realities lately, I feel like i'm trapped in my body although I know it is not who I really am and it's only limiting who I wish to be (that is, spiritually liberated).

You mentioned there's some "muscles" that need to be trained, I have tried to look up for that info online but I find it extremely hard for some reason to trust most of what is being written on OBEs and experiencing beyond the 5 senses. I sense there's a lot of disinformation when it comes to it.

I'm sorry if this was already asked here, but I would be really happy if you could expand on it a bit or refer to a website that provides more guidance about reaching these experiences, I feel your story was very genuine, and i'm feeling really ready for such experiences.

Thanks, looking forward to read more from you.

edit on 24-12-2012 by Shuye because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:01 AM
Thank you brother for another thought provoking OP.

You speak of certain entities who are opposed to our spiritual freedom - care to eleborate on who/what those entities are, what do they gain by keeping us spiritually imprisoned, and what would they lose by us gaining spiritual freedom?

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:14 AM
OP just like muscle memory, so too i think the soul is.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:18 AM

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Why are you sharing any of this if you cannot in one way prove it? Is it followers you seek?

Why can't he just inform us for the sake of letting us know, so that we may grow? It seems quite fitting that someone who is always looking for recompense would ask what someone else wants out of an exchange, don't you think?

Not everyone thinks that way. Sometimes, their joy is gained by watching others learn and knowing their secrets won't go to the grave.

You seem like a very earnest defender of this newest prophet. Are you solely aligned with him, or are you open to new accounts? I'm looking for a Greek Chorus, and you got the right stuff for the gig. Of course, if you're under contract already, then I completely understand.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:32 AM
Maybe someone has done this and I missed it, but I'm surprised no one has asked OP to prove his remote viewing ability by having him view one of us and describe us/our surroundings, etc. I'd be a willing victim......

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:51 AM

Originally posted by kaylaluv
I'd be a willing victim......

Tiberius Caesar, of the senate, "Are they so eager to be slaves?"

I read through the OPs posts and I sense an element of "solicitation" at the end of them. Isn't this forbidden by the T&C?

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 07:59 AM

Have you ever met Indigo Swan?

Have you ever had a "UFO" type experience?

Have you ever been to the black void?

Does the number 72288 mean anything to you?

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:25 PM

Originally posted by YourOtherSelf
Thank you for sharing the message.

I wonder why some will react with harsh words and messages of their own?

Accepted or rejected doesn't matter, you are providing them with a catalyst for "growth".

It is up to them to decide how to use it.

You guys, who just registered in the last couple months, you're all a posse, aren't you.

Are you here to gather up the weak and wounded after the collapse of the 21-21-2012 fraud cut them free? If so, then you'll probably succeed - unless you're actually going to eventually reveal that you're Scientologists. Once that happens, these "open minds" are going to see Tom Cruise and all that weirdness associated with Scientology drop right down in front of their eyes.

It's pretty weird that L. Ron Hubbard's name has suddenly popped up within this prophet's narrative, but then again, it makes sense that Scientologist would come here fishing for blindsided 2012 adherents in the aftermath of the failure of the Mayan prophesy. It also makes sense that guys like you would suddenly show up to second the notion of that other new guy who's job is obviously to be the Piped Piper in this operation.

It also makes sense that there would be guys like me and some of the others on this thread (and the other threads that belong to you guys) that show up and take you guys apart to expose just how lame this effort is. Let the dust settle on this post-apocalypse debacle for those folks who are still trying to get their legs back underneath themselves, or get used to being ridiculed by the folks who've been here for years and have seen your kind come and go. This is our community, and we do look out for each other around here. We deny ignorance here, and we know that ignorance shows up here wearing many different costumes. We've gotten pretty good at detecting it.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:47 PM
reply to post by NorEaster

Oh hi there! It appears you are dissatisfied and disgruntled with the OP's approach to the coming years. If you have a better approach, one that hasn't been used with appallingly ineffective results in the past decade, then please share. If you do not, then please, step aside and allow the people who are willing to try to speak their mind. I don't see you doing any good here except for tearing down others for daring to be imaginative, for daring to advocate peace and spirituality.

You, on the other hand, are nothing but a wellspring of negativity. Exactly what do you have to offer that Apocryphon doesn't? This is not your thread, your forum, or your website. If you don't like what you read, speak freely and then leave. No one is keeping you here, and quite frankly, you're not doing much good.

Denying ignorance does not mean denying imagination. If they can defend it, let them do so. It's not your place to tell them they can't, and if you're not busy enough to keep from poking at their hopes, then you obviously don't have a life.

Go find a way to make yourself useful instead of an unimaginative reclusive nuisance. Or contribute instead of laying yourself in the road because you don't like the color of the car that approaches.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:51 PM
You've provided a good write for a good read... as far as it goes... and I look forward to more of your stuff in the future, if there is one... but I suppose you'd know more about that than I?

In matters of the Spirit and Spirit World you've painted broad brush strokes which failed to provide the intimate details upon which others who made a journey to the Spirit/Self could identify with.

Without those details you appear a New-Ager with book answers passed to us as experience. Could you tell us about your personal "Struggle for Spiritual Liberation" and explain how remote viewing and Scientology relates to any true path to the Spirit?

You haven't said anything that I didn't already know so still awaiting your insights. Meanwhile very pleased to see comments from people who also Know... and from many who do not yet know.

edit on 24-12-2012 by Brown Bear because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-12-2012 by Brown Bear because: spelling/context

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 12:57 PM
reply to post by NorEaster

Just so you know, a good portion of us consider your attitude to really suck. Now I'm not knocking any kind of intelligence that you may have, but as far as morals and actions go, you've got to a lot to learn man.

Life isn't about believing what I believe, or taking the highway. It's about finding your own path to the truth. Now, with that being said, I think it is entirely ridiculous to group every poster, who through their own experiences and 'truths' has come to resonate with the OP, as being a 'posse' to worship him. Not once in his OP, or subsequent posts, did he mention anything of the sort. If people consider his thoughts to be a form of domination over them, maybe they should examine their own thoughts first.

I often hear people here knocking 'new agers' for thinking enlightenment makes them better than you, which is complete lie in the first place. Examine all the celebrities, athletes, tv stars and the like. When Michael Jackson died we couldn't hear the end of it for two weeks, and I mean let's group in the Royal Wedding as well. Because of money or fame are these people better than us? Is an astrophysicist better than a veterinarian? If you can do a running wall-flip, cartwheel, aerial, or any number of parkour or tricking moves, does that make you better than me?

No, it doesn't. It just means you have certain skill sets that I don't.

Take another analogy that I heard long ago from a temporary member of ours.

"If I'm in an airplane, and you are walking on the street; does that make me better than you? No, it just makes me higher."

Lastly, the most ironic part of all of this, is the attitude of skeptics. Most portend that the mere act of being skeptical makes you 'smarter' or more 'enlightened' than all of the 'new agers' put together.

So when you guys start calling the kettle black, and ostracizing members for the exact same things you do, remember to take a good long look in the mirror first.
edit on 24-12-2012 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:08 PM
Alright ATS,

Hello again Apocryphon.

Listen folks, I have said it before and I will say it again: this body of writing and narrative that the OP is drawing much of his story from exists within a closed loop. On the internet.

I had said previously that ATS is like Ouroboros, eating its own tail, trapped in a strange loop, I would like to modify that statement: ATS is the head of Ouroboros, dragging the entire narrative along with it.

You should have been aware of that before you came to ATS, Apocryphon. You know, absolutely everyone that tries to pull off what you are trying to pull off has underestimated us in this way.

Everything that a member needs to know to crawl up inside Apocryphon's suite of narratives and dismantle them is here, on ATS, the work has been done already.

The head of Ouroboros (ATS) already has the knowledge stored in its database.

Just begin taking key words from the OPs OP and search them using ATS...

I searched 'Hal Putoff' and, of course, came up with one of my favorite threads, which explains much about 'The Aviary' and would go very far in priming all members on what they need to know to begin to deny ignorance.

Seriously, Hal Putoff and Scientology? This bull# narrative is going to see its final days here at ATS, devoured by the head of Ouroboros.

Back soon.
edit on 24-12-2012 by Xoanon because:

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:10 PM
reply to post by AfterInfinity

Do a post search on me and read up before opening your mouth about me again. You have no idea what I have shared with this community. Why not find out why I dismiss the OP and his drivel?

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:25 PM

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by NorEaster

Just so you know, a good portion of us consider your attitude to really suck. Now I'm not knocking any kind of intelligence that you may have, but as far as morals and actions go, you've got to a lot to learn man.

Life isn't about believing what I believe, or taking the highway. It's about finding your own path to the truth. Now, with that being said, I think it is entirely ridiculous to group every poster, who through their own experiences and 'truths' has come to resonate with the OP, as being a 'posse' to worship him.

We've all seen the sudden Greek Chorus effect before, so don't pretend that you don't know what I'm referring to. It happens all the time around here, and the registration date clustering among the most ardent cheerleaders is a dead give away.

Lastly, the most ironic part of all of this, is the attitude of skeptics. Most portend that the mere act of being skeptical makes you 'smarter' or more 'enlightened' than all of the 'new agers' put together.

So when you guys start calling the kettle black, and ostracizing members for the exact same things you do, remember to take a good long look in the mirror first.
edit on 24-12-2012 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

We all get blasted when we express our views. We expect it. We live through it, and we work to better detail our evidence or reasons for seeing things as we do. This is how this community works. Being skeptical is - should be - the natural response to the kind of over-the-top claims made by this particular OP. Hell, it's not as if he's been shy about drawing as many flies as possible with his claims of inner access to secret information that we all need to learn from him. Give me a break.

I don't have any trouble with him laying himself out there to be evaluated and dissected and challenged by those he wishes to persuade with his vision. It's you goons and your attacks on anyone who scoffs at him that irritate me. Who told you that no one has the immediate right to call him and his claims out for public scrutiny? Who made any of these threads a no-fly zone - as if you guys took out advertising space on this forum, and we're not allowed to force some proof or even plausible details out of the salesman of this stuff? Maybe you need to go bone-up on the T&C page, so that you won't be further confused as to whats actually going on here in ATS-land.

I've had my share of abuse here, and I took it. I don't try to sell anything here, but that doesn't mean that I have to allow anything to pass without challenge either. If you can't handle that, then this isn't the place for you and your movement. Or whatever it is that you and your pals are all worked up over here.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:27 PM
reply to post by Xoanon

I rest my share of the case. Brilliantly presented. Thank you.

posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 01:28 PM
reply to post by VeritasAequitas

edit on 24-12-2012 by LesMisanthrope because: Point Proven

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