Who am I? **A Story of the Struggle for Spiritual Liberation**

Out of body awareness is a spiritual ability that is eventually gained, but can become a trap to the ego and keep one from progress into Enlightenment.

What and where is the source of awareness? Have you located the source of thought? Self mastery? Complete detachment?

If not, its about time to let go of oob awareness and start going deeper within for Enlightenment.

reply to post by Killuminati2


When someone claims belief in an All-Mighty, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent Creator, and then suggests that God can somehow be absent from something or somewhere or somebody, that person can be written off as addled. Because clearly they're confused by the very nature of their faith.

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

Wow, they really have thought of it all haven't they?

link

I have never read that before and now know why some harped about it being a game so badly, that was very interesting. Goodness they have made hard work for themselves in their game, fancy having to be aware of all that and try to funtion normally at the same time.

I viewed the Link. Boring and much easier than the "experts" make out.

The idea is to not function normally. Normal is crazy. Look around. The Seeker works toward sanity and intends to break away from social conditioning.

Once you figure TA out it's poetry in motion as it provides a powerful tool to storm barriers and to begin to win a few battles against the Ego.

TA takes years to master but it's well worth it for anyone struggling toward consciousness as it provides focus, and more importantly, a yardstick for progress on the Path.

Of course, this as in everything on the Path, requires courage, heart, and brains just for openers.

Originally posted by Brown Bear

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

Wow, they really have thought of it all haven't they?

link

I have never read that before and now know why some harped about it being a game so badly, that was very interesting. Goodness they have made hard work for themselves in their game, fancy having to be aware of all that and try to funtion normally at the same time.

Of course, this as in everything on the Path, requires courage, heart and brains for openers.

edit on 25-12-2012 by Brown Bear because: add content

This I agree with

Poetry in motion you reckon, but at the expense of what?
You can not stomp on people to get anywhere on the physical plane level any more than you can stomp on them in other places and not suffer something because of that.
Unnatural restriction is still restriction and in so doing restrict yourself. Perhaps it was even accidental restriction in the first place. Just because it's an accident doesn't make it any less beautiful or helpful or whatever works for you.

So I'm going to add 'a gentle touch' to your list of requirements, if that's okay with you. It's the little things that count.
And I don't know what's normal (never have)but I do know what's right and what's wrong and that comes from no one point in the body to define.

I would love to discuss the finer points of visitation and summoning and journeying with someone, but I reckon it's not time for that yet.

It also sucks sometimes, to be 'not' specific in case you hurt someone, just my own little frustration.

reply to post by Xoanon


Good, lucid post! A few comments:

I have to ask you all? Are you really ready to just jump right back in to this? If we start in about 1969 or so, we are looking at about 43 years of riding this pointless train to Marakesh.

The train died when 2012 fizzled. It seems the engineers are trying to shovel more coal to get up a new head of steam.

Doesn't the timing of this even strike you as slightly odd? Or that fact that this thread has also revealed, in a way, that there is a raw hunger that people have for 'the truth' and 'enlightenment'?

The 2012 train only fizzled for those who expected aliens, meteors, or an ascent into some other dimension. Personally, I researched the 2012 phenomena and always saw it as more of the end of an era than anything else. It's hard to doubt that we live in a period of tremendous change, so for me the jury is still out...

Spiritual evolution is the ultimate purpose for existence.

No, it actually is not. Active participation in our relationships, with everything we have to bring to the table, is the ultimate purpose of existence. All the secrets are in there, but folks were systematically told by various gurus in the 70's and on to have 'a quiet divorce' from their families, and to form new fictive families, usually based around 'spiritual pursuits'.

From my point of view, you and the op are essentially saying the same thing. From what I have experienced in this life, our spiritual development is directly related to our relationships.

Personal development is meaningless if it doesn't benefit others, because we are all connected.

At the same time, our ability to have meaningful relationships is directly related to our spiritual development. Another way to say 'spiritual development' is 'self knowledge'. The more we know, accept, and love about our true selves, the more we can express love and understanding to others, thus having meaningful relationships.

This is bull#, until the day comes when we can face the fact that we are the root cause of all suffering, we will get nowhere.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I think we create suffering when our expectations differ from reality, but to say we are the root cause of all suffering? Aren't we the root cause of all emotions, good and bad?

Who or what created the mindset that permeates our culture that money, materialism, and power in this physical world are the things with which we should preoccupy ourselves and fight over? Ultimately, those things keep our consciousness’s trapped here on this plane, and prevent us from liberating ourselves spiritually.

We did.

Amen!

Really? They have powers that we don't have and not only that, all of the 'real' information has been destroyed, so unless we are willing to rely on the OP, who is the only person with the knowledge that is kind enough to reach out, we are screwed.

While I couldn't care less about 'powers', I do see where the OP is coming from in this. Looking at history, mainstream belief has been dominated by organized religion, and organized religion has done a very good job of wiping out opposing viewpoints.

I enjoyed your response! Hope you had a very merry Christmas!

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC

Originally posted by Brown Bear

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

Wow, they really have thought of it all haven't they?

link

I have never read that before and now know why some harped about it being a game so badly, that was very interesting. Goodness they have made hard work for themselves in their game, fancy having to be aware of all that and try to funtion normally at the same time.

Of course, this as in everything on the Path, requires courage, heart and brains for openers.

edit on 25-12-2012 by Brown Bear because: add content

This I agree with

Poetry in motion you reckon, but at the expense of what?
You can not stomp on people to get anywhere on the physical plane level any more than you can stomp on them in other places and not suffer something because of that.
Unnatural restriction is still restriction and in so doing restrict yourself. Perhaps it was even accidental restriction in the first place. Just because it's an accident doesn't make it any less beautiful or helpful or whatever works for you.

So I'm going to add 'a gentle touch' to your list of requirements, if that's okay with you. It's the little things that count.
And I don't know what's normal (never have)...

The battle is not in the external world although it begins there. And the struggle is with no one beyond elements within yourself. It's very easy to hurt someone by not jumping into their games but the real issue is to learn not to jump into your own.

TA is 'do-it-yourself' therapy. And it works to defeat the Ego for anybody that sticks with it... however quality of life improvements will often be seen within a few weeks. Do magic on yourself to begin to see a clearer reality.

For those that don't know, TA gained near Cult-status among millions during the 70's-80's because it can (and did) produce spectacular results. Work steadily with it for 3 years and true Consciousness will be within sight.

Then you'll be positioned to actually see the difference between evolved Consciousness and the stuff so many NA'ers (and others) talk about on ATS. TA is an absolute "must have' skill for personal growth, and much moreso for a serious Seeker Wannabe.

Eyes that see, and ears that hear, kind of stuff. And perhaps there is no wrong or right and instead is just experience? And maybe hurt and pain are just illusions too? Like props in a grand movie.

reply to post by Brown Bear

For those that don't know, TA gained near Cult-status among millions during the 70's-80's because it can (and did) produce spectacular results. Work steadily with it for 3 years and true Consciousness will be within sight.

For those sharp enough to understand, a book like "I Am That", nondual philosophy, or certain Zen Koans are enough to penetrate into True Consciousness, right now, or tomorrow, or in weeks, months.

So many ways I guess.

1 man's path is another man's trap.

I've seen TM Meditator's who have been hard at it for 20-30+ years, and are still back at square one.

It all depends really

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC

Poetry in motion you reckon, but at the expense of what?
You can not stomp on people to get anywhere on the physical plane level any more than you can stomp on them in other places and not suffer something because of that.
Unnatural restriction is still restriction and in so doing restrict yourself. Perhaps it was even accidental restriction in the first place. Just because it's an accident doesn't make it any less beautiful or helpful or whatever works for you.

Transaction analysis is a tool which helps you understand the dynamics in relationship. It is not about hurting people or stomping on people. It is about every body winning. When two people speak it is best if they speak on an adult level - that way they both get their needs met. Someone who has studied and knows transactional analysis will not get trapped by other peoples games and will beable to get their needs met and help others get theirs needs met too. Most people don't know they are playing a game and just wonder why they keep getting hurt, they want something and go about it the wrong way. Understanding TA will prevent you from getting hurt and stop unnecessary arguments. It is like a defense against attack and it also stops you from unwittingly attacking others. Understanding how transactions work is very rewarding and brings peace and prevents war.
It is hard to do at first because it breaks the game (it will shock the one starting the game), but the game must be spotted before you step into the game otherwise it will be too late - once you enter a game you will be dragged along.
The bully mentality is parental, the victim mentality is child and the one that gets results is the adult. If you stick to adult you will find life a lot easier. When life is easier, it is more enjoyable for all.

Transactional analysis also helps you to find out who you are. When you learn TA you will have to observe yourself and watch how everything is happening, you have to be present all the time! You place yourself into a different place - further back -you watch your thoughts and your reactions and sensations and you also watch words appear from the other people as they appear. You become much more present and aware. Aware of all that arises.
At some point you may discover that you are the silent witness that is constantly present just watching the play in peace, when you are at peace the world works so much better. More peace - more joy.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

For those that don't know, TA gained near Cult-status among millions during the 70's-80's because it can (and did) produce spectacular results. Work steadily with it for 3 years and true Consciousness will be within sight.

For those sharp enough to understand, a book like "I Am That", nondual philosophy, or certain Zen Koans are enough to penetrate into True Consciousness, right now, or tomorrow, or in weeks, months.

So many ways I guess.

1 man's path is another man's trap.

I've seen TM Meditator's who have been hard at it for 20-30+ years, and are still back at square one.

It all depends really

edit on 26-12-2012 by dominicus because: (no reason given)

You might want to begin to work out of the trap that ignorance has placed you into. Or at least think about it. People reveal themselves through their words.

Why do you mention TM? What does TM have to do with the TA that's under discussion? You seem to be well qualified to recognize and occupy "square one" and even more qualified to proceed in your life's work as a New Ager.

Try to keep up with the adults or return to the children's table.

reply to post by Brown Bear


Our words do betray us. Your use of the phrase "New Ager" reveals how much you understand. New age isn't new age, it's "out of hiding" philosophy. You can thank Christianity/Catholicism for that.

But Apocryphon is here to show us a way of looking at things that will open our hearts to a less righteous and more understanding path. Righteousness, by its very nature, places one thing above another. This doesn't invite understanding, it invites contempt and misery.

It's time to be understanding, not righteous. Mankind can't handle being righteous. We spend far too much time pretending we're more worthy than others anyway.

reply to post by Itisnowagain




I do not intend to sharp shoot you, nor do I wish to provide instruction on TA... however it's important to realize that the bully is the "Critical" Parent and the "Adapted" Child is the victim. These are only two of the five Ego-states... the Adult is the third.

Hard work needs to be done with TA but the real payoff is that ultimately the "Natural" Child is a direct access route to One's Spirit but only when a person has done enough work with TA to make that happen.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

Our words do betray us. Your use of the phrase "New Ager" reveals how much you understand. New age isn't new age, it's "out of hiding" philosophy. You can thank Christianity/Catholicism for that.

But Apocryphon is here to show us a way of looking at things that will open our hearts to a less righteous and more understanding path. Righteousness, by its very nature, places one thing above another. This doesn't invite understanding, it invites contempt and misery.

It's time to be understanding, not righteous. Mankind can't handle being righteous. We spend far too much time pretending we're more worthy than others anyway.

The only response I have to this I already presented on page 8:

Just a few years ago one could come onto a Metaphysical thread on ATS and find people that worked and struggled for years, studied under Master after Master, experimented with psychological methods etc etc, and thus, could offer true insight about connecting with the Spirit.

That doesn't happen anymore although it's encouraging (to me) that a few serious seekers have popped up here but their presence merely serves to highlight the many dilettantes and philistines involved in the New Age Movement.

The reason serious seekers hold New Age in such contempt is because we all started there and after learning its limitations quickly moved on, because as demonstrated herein, NA'ers learn the answers and then parrot their stupidity endlessly.

NA'ers typically do none of the serious work required to truly understand, and thus do not have a clue about the Truths which one discovers painfully on a true Spiritual Path. Or what it takes in effort to discover them. The OP is a good example.

Many who have studied the NA Movement come to the realization that agents of TPTB have infiltrated it and destroyed any hope for those millions of reaching true Enlightenment by "the kind" that accept the answers without seeking for the "why." It's Devil's work for all to see.

NA'ers cannot answer the Master's questions and they prove it by not even being smart enough to ask the right questions in forums like this. Dummies will never advance even an inch toward understanding the Great Mysteries.

Perhaps one of you could explain exactly how remote viewing, Scientology, and OBE's relate in any way to a serious Spiritual Seeker, the Spirit, and/or Spirit World... as anything more than clever tricks one does for amusement and fun enroute.

The OP's Ego presents a Resume which will only appeal to Western Social Lemmings but never to any serious Spiritual Seeker. NA'ers represent polluted water reaching it's own level among "the kind" willing to waste life's opportunity to truly connect with the Spirit.

End quote:

My opinion is that New Age distracts from the real Spiritual work before each of us. But it is as with most other things these days... aimed at the lowest common denominator.

NA is the alternative for people without the Will Power to connect with the Spirit. People unable to do the heavy work on themselves needed to truly connect with the Spirit fall by the wayside into New Age.

reply to post by Brown Bear

NA'ers typically do none of the serious work required to truly understand, and thus do not have a clue about the Truths which one discovers painfully on a true Spiritual Path. Or what it takes in effort to discover them. The OP is a good example.

Then I implore you, give us a better way. Post your own thread, illuminating the flaws and presenting a solution to each, for the betterment of the seekers of ATS.

Otherwise, you're just talking. At least Apocryphon tried. What have you got to show us? What have you tried to teach us? Where have you tried to take us? Show us that Apocryphon's words are as worthless as you make them out to be. Show us what truth is.

Originally posted by Brown Bear
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I do not intend to sharp shoot you, nor do I wish to provide instruction on TA... however it's important to realize that the bully is the "Critical" Parent and the "Adapted" Child is the victim. These are only two of the five Ego-states... the Adult is the third.

Hard work needs to be done with TA but the real payoff is that ultimately the "Natural" Child is a direct access route to One's Spirit but only when a person has done enough work with TA to make that happen.

Yes, i know.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

NA'ers typically do none of the serious work required to truly understand, and thus do not have a clue about the Truths which one discovers painfully on a true Spiritual Path. Or what it takes in effort to discover them. The OP is a good example.

Then I implore you, give us a better way. Post your own thread, illuminating the flaws and presenting a solution to each, for the betterment of the seekers of ATS.

Otherwise, you're just talking. At least Apocryphon tried. What have you got to show us? What have you tried to teach us? Where have you tried to take us? Show us that Apocryphon's words are as worthless as you make them out to be. Show us what truth is.

edit on 26-12-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

To "try" is to fail. Water seeks it's own level.

Starting a thread on ATS means reading every bit of half-baked trash that comes and nobody with any sense will waste energy on nothing.

Does anybody ever wonder why women aren't found in any Ashram or Monastery involved in doing serious Spiritual work?

Truth? Nobody gave me the answers although many New Age charlatans tried to sell them to me. The point of being a Seeker is to find the Truth for your Self. I can only point the Way.

reply to post by Brown Bear

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Does anybody ever wonder why women aren't found in any Ashram or Monastery involved in doing serious Spiritual work?

There are many women sharing the truth.

Originally posted by Brown Bear

You might want to begin to work out of the trap that ignorance has placed you into. Or at least think about it. People reveal themselves through their words.

Try to keep up with the adults or return to the children's table.

You sure sound enlightened...

reply to post by Brown Bear

You might want to begin to work out of the trap that ignorance has placed you into.

Oh yea mean the same trap that ignorance has placed you in as well? I can see by your words a large amount of assumption and projection of the ego mind, which allows one to conclude that One can do TA for their whole lives, and still never get rid of assumptions and projections. It's rather sad when one sticks to one system and says, "This is it," when on my end, I have approached inner work and Life through various systems, all of which sharpen each each other, and go alot further than TA can ever go.

Or at least think about it. People reveal themselves through their words.

It seems this statement has backfired on you, and it's too bad because it has shown (Off various other logic, reason, systems, and philosophies) that you're viewing my reply (the motivation of which to help others transcend and not get stuck in 1 system), based of the labels, assumptions, projections of the TA system. There are others that work faster and lead to enlightenment.

Why do you mention TM? What does TM have to do with the TA that's under discussion?

Just like TM, you can be all up in TA for decades, and still be stuck, never getting to enlightenment, grace, complete development, detachment, and so forth. That's the similarity. Don't live in the box of one system.

You seem to be well qualified to recognize and occupy "square one"

Key word being "Seem", which stinks of assumptions and projections without knowing the true purpose and motivation of replying and knowing whether or not I am personally genuine, or not. When you assume, you make an Arse out of you and me (ass+u+me+).

As far as square 1 (child, adult, parent) there are systems that can transcend all squares and develop them from the highest selfless perspectives from beyond the ego.

and even more qualified to proceed in your life's work as a New Ager.

I never knew that Socrates, Buddha, Jesus, Meister Eckhart, Zen, were considered New Age when the former were established thousands of years ago. Ahh the troubles that come with assumption.

Try to keep up with the adults or return to the children's table.

Try to see beyond labels and systems, You can point out other traps but cannot see your own. There are states beyond your labels and systems, accessible to you right now. But if you live in a concrete unmalleable box, then your taking the reflection of the moon on the surface of the water, as the actual moon (when it's not) .....and in turn attacking (assuming, projecting) anything that's not your system, as new age.

You've revealed your hand to others in your reply to me, which does not do a good job of supporting an idea/comcept that you've gone far in your own system (when your system does not cover the atrocities and problems of assumption and projection)

On the other hand, my replies to you are of logic, reason, openness, allowing room for various systems and discussion, as well as the ability to defend my stance, and on top of that I come to you with compassion and Love from the perspective of the Soul.

The Ego is a strange thing, it identifies itself as a part of our personality yet often times it is the cause for the downfall of our moral and spiritual self.

I pose the idea that the heart is centre of our physical self and the point from which we are bound to our ethereal spiritual self.

Only recently scientists have admitted the heart has it's own nervous system (much like the brain) and they are a little puzzled as to what it's purpose is.

We are empathic creatures, we are driven by emotions and those emotions define our personality and character. They make us instinctive but also give us insight, provide balance to our reasoning (our higher brain function) and provide inspiration for moments of brilliant creativity.

The brain provides the platform (the mind) within which our conciousness resides, expanding unknown planes of possibilities creating an architecture upon which our imagination grows (inspired and fuelled by the heart e.g. desires, beliefs, experiences etc).

We are experiential creatures, we develop and evolve through experience, both physically and spiritually. You cannot separate the heart from the mind as the two are interlinked in their functionality and purpose.

We live in a world where we have been indoctrinated on a daily basis to detach our heart from our mind, to believe that higher functioning humans are those that rely solely on the mind, logical and lateral thinking yet we fail to realise its the heart allows us to see something with a different, wider perspective, often providing insight where we would not normally expect any to be.

Because we draw on experience, as well as knowledge (and the information that makes up that knowledge) and it's both the pain and the joy that we associate with any experience that gives us the necessary tools to understand and learn what we are presented with...You could say this mechanism is the basis with which we gain wisdom (or begin to take the steps that make one reach a level of understanding and comprehension that is termed wisdom).

The truth is folks (and this goes to the OP as well), you only really reach true enlightenment when you realise you have to completely let go of your ego.

Rumi (may god be pleased with him) said something along the lines of:

The lover will only reach his goal (to be with his loved on) when he realises the final veil that separates him from this beloved is his own conciousness

Meaning the only thing that separates man from becoming one with the rest of creation (and ultimate returning to the source that is God, if you believe this) is his own ego, the mind and the many barriers that he puts up.

You have to accept you are nothing and then let yourself fall into the abyss to reach your ultimate destination.

So what you have experienced is only one facet of your physical and spiritual growth however I suggest you also factor in the heart and how it plays a very important (and central) role in our existence. As Rumi suggested, the heart is like our internal sun, that we orbit around...

Food for thought.

reply to post by old_god


Hey, big thumbs up on the reply

I agree with everything you said, but wanted to add that we have various systems, philosophies, paths to realize what you've said

That was my point to the OP, but he went off on assumptions. My point being that there are rapid ways to Enlightenment, and the whole TA system is still built on levels, separatist thinking, ego traps along the way,etc.

Anyway. Great reply