More and more stories about accelerating climate change

reply to post by Phage


I don't deny we need more intel about climates of other planets including our sun before saying that they are the cause of climate change.

However, the what i meant by by previous statements is that we KNOW we aren't the reason for climate change.

We are only helping it along. It's true we don't know exactly why this happens, but we also know that we are not the cause...we are simply accelerating the shift with our actions.

I apologize if i didn't make my meaning clear last time, but my intention was to give examples as to why we aren't the problem, simply a determining factor.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by auraelium

 

,5000 record lows in the USA over last winter iirc A few examples?

wattsupwiththat.com...

Russia is experiencing its coldest winter in 50 years It is? Coldest ever in 50 years? Got some data for that?

rt.com...

Here's a start.
www.infoplease.com...

www.infoplease.com...

reply to post by auraelium

Over 2000 new low temperature records set in October

That's in October. I'm talking about record lows.

Down to -50C: Russians freeze to death as strongest-in-decades winter hits

I'm talking about record lows.

On February 6, 1933, the temperature in Oimyakon, Russia plunged to -90° Fahrenheit (-68° Celsius), giving Siberia the world's lowest temperature outside of Antarctica.

geography.about.com...

www.infoplease.com...

Yeah. You're right. Probably not a good source.
www.livescience.com...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by auraelium

 

Over 2000 new low temperature records set in October

That's in October. I'm talking about record lows.

Down to -50C: Russians freeze to death as strongest-in-decades winter hits

I'm talking about record lows.

On February 6, 1933, the temperature in Oimyakon, Russia plunged to -90° Fahrenheit (-68° Celsius), giving Siberia the world's lowest temperature outside of Antarctica.

geography.about.com...

www.infoplease.com...

Yeah. You're right. Probably not a good source.
www.livescience.com...

You have lost me, they are record lows.

reply to post by auraelium

Those aren't overall low records. Coldest for October, not coldest ever.
Siberia got to -50, that's not the coldest ever.

reply to post by Phage


Your splitting hairs.

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by December21st2012
The earth is bleeding, and no one knows how to heal her.

Not really a good analogy. Or maybe it is.
Human females bleed on a cyclical basis.

Phage, I knew you were an alien..."human females"

I don't see anyone denying climate change.

I just see a lot of people not buying into the anthropogenic aspect of it.
You do know the difference between the two, right OP ?

I certainly hope so, or there's no discussion to be had in this thread whatsoever for obvious reasons of logical fallacies.

Ice is melting, ice is thickening... it's all moot. The question is: What part are we playing in it and to what degree ? And is any global policy like a carbon tax going to remedy the changing of said climate ?

Scientists are still arguing over the friggin' carbon isotopes trying to determine what is truly anthropogenic and what's not... So until they can finally determine those facts as absolutes, there is no amount of mitigation that's going to reverse the situation for absolute certainty, now is there ? It makes no sense to put the cart before the horse if all we're going to end up doing is cutting off our noses to spite our face and still ending up with a warming planet on our hands.

The only mitigating we can truly do in the meantime is continue to clean up our act so that we can at least stop polluting and damaging the only home we have.


And now for a little humour to lighten up this neverending debate of AGW ad nauseum:

reply to post by CranialSponge

I don't see anyone denying climate change.

See our discussion above.

Originally posted by December21st2012
Antarctic melt speeding up

How can there still be global warming deniers when more and more evidence of the damage we have done to the earth is being revealed.

The U.K is drowning in floodwater, we have ridiculously mild and rainy weather here. The earth is bleeding, and no one knows how to heal her.

www.bbc.co.uk... 83 dead from cold snap

www.breakingnews.ie... 60 in Poland

english.ruvr.ru...

Temperatures of up to minus 45 degrees Celsius in the Altai region in southeast Siberia have prompted the authorities to declare a regionwide state of emergency.

local.msn.com... to far away for you then try the states and the coming cold and snow.

When I grew up many proclaimed a new ice age was upon us due to the earths orbit and precession. Then Al Gore came along and swore if we would all pay a carbon tax we could stop global warming......Took them about 5 years to change that to climate change; but they still want your money. Now having said all that I promise you there will be climate change... regardless of what little homo erectus does. I think I read on ATS (someplace) a couple of years ago that where we have satellites and can do the measurements the whole solar system is warming up...But that is an inconvenient truth.

Who knows we may dodge another ice age if that is the case or fry like a fish in a deep fryer time will tell. More important things (for me) to worry about than something I have no control over. We cooked on the barbie tonight..my bad...

P.S. they are shutting down coal powered electric plants in the good old US of A while for everyone we shut down China builds???? No one will complain until their local grid goes down or their electric bill goes up some outlandish amount. A myopic view of anything is exactly that... but is not real science. Now, some of the hydrates that are melting and the methane gasses being freed are a concern to me along with the Atlantic conveyer belt that keeps our British friends (among others) warm are troubling signs....

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by auraelium

 

Those aren't overall low records. Coldest for October, not coldest ever.
Siberia got to -50, that's not the coldest ever.

It's called a record low if on that day, it's the lowest recorded temperature for that place the temp was registered, is it not? Or are you saying the only 'record low' is the one recorded in Siberia in 1933?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by CranialSponge

 

I don't see anyone denying climate change.

See our discussion above.

They're denying a global warming, not climate change.

Global being the key word here.

The first mistake climatologists made was to use the word "global"... and the second mistake they made was to use the word "warming".

It causes a lot of terminology problems in the debate right from the get-go. Thus the main key factor in the debate, that being anthropogenic, ends up getting lost in translation.

And around and around we go.

Originally posted by CranialSponge

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by CranialSponge

 

I don't see anyone denying climate change.

See our discussion above.

They're denying a global warming, not climate change.

The first mistake climatologists made was to use the word "global"... and the second mistake they made was to use the word "warming".

It causes a lot of terminology problems in the debate right from the get-go. Thus the main key factor in the debate, that being anthropogenic, ends up getting lost in translation.

And around and around we go.

And here all the time I thought it was from Al Gore trying to suck all our money away...Thank you for the clarification

reply to post by CranialSponge

They're denying a global warming, not climate change.

Climate change driven by an increase in average global temperature. I know it's been said, many times, many ways but that doesn't mean every place on the planet gets warmer.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by auraelium

 

Those aren't overall low records. Coldest for October, not coldest ever.
Siberia got to -50, that's not the coldest ever.

To ask for the coldest ever has nothing to do with this topic. You asked for examples...how does anyone know what the temperature was millions of years ago? Or are you just looking for specific examples since record keeping? If so, from what year until the present will please you? Please give specifics when you ask for specifics so people can try to give you the info that you asked for instead of seemingly moving the goalposts.

reply to post by superman2012

My point was that we seem to be seeing more record highs than record lows. I said that this may be an indication of increasing temperatures. I understand that it is nothing definitive. I would say that the loss of Arctic sea ice and Antarctic land ice, along with other global temperature indices would be stronger evidence.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by CranialSponge

 

They're denying a global warming, not climate change.

Climate change driven by an increase in average global temperature. I know it's been said, many times, many ways but that doesn't mean every place on the planet gets warmer.

Agreed.
Those that have done their homework on the subject understand this, and others don't.

And that's why the terms "global" and "warming" becomes such a problem.

They've tried changing it to a generalized term of "climate change" to remedy that problem, but it's not working out so well for them now after the fact.

Tough titty for them I guess, they've made their bed and now they have to lay in it.
Back peddling does not fair well in such an emotionally connected science.

reply to post by Phage


I do agree with you. It does seem to indicate that. However, that is like taking one second of a year and trying to tell the average temp for the next year. We don't have enough data, haven't had a long enough period of recording and most people would agree that to take the data that we have at this juncture and making claims about the weather, what will happen, and the causes of it, is very poor science.

I'm not saying the weather isn't getting wonky(yes, it's a science term), just that we don't know the cause of it.
Thanks for clarifying.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
reply to post by December21st2012

 

How can there still be deniers? easy, for every report/study that says climate change is occurring, there will be another one released that says it is not. A report came out not long ago that said the Antarctic ice pack is growing. Unless you are actually a climatologist, chances are you are taking the word of someone else as to what is actually happening. The sad part of that is, there are those that will twist things to suit an agenda and we, the masses of people who are not privileged to the raw data...even if we could understand it...have no idea if we are being given facts or farce...

You are absoutely correct there! We aren't being told the truth. I don't believe that global warming is man made even though man's energy has had a dire effect on earth. One morning after waking from a prophetic dream I saw fresh water run-off to a lower level and then something about the sun.

From the article: Whatever the source, the researchers are concerned that this warming can lead to more melting and have direct and indirect effects on global sea levels. The direct impacts are the run-off of melting waters into the sea.

Well, it is going to get warmer still and we will see this as a gradual process. I think eventually, noone will be able to deny it.

It saddens me to see debates like this.

Who cares if she heats up or freezes over, the plain truth is that we are responsible for the part where everything dies. It is preposterous to try and argue that we have not had a drastic and irreversible effect on the environment. Whether it heats up or freezes over is yet to be seen, but the fact remains. We have exploited our natural resources at a rate that the earth cannot handle. We have left harmful chemicals that leach into the soil and water. We have made a date with the Mother Earth for a future that is inundated with pollutants and infertile lands and seas. We have pushed the animals out of their hard earned niches in every corner of the planet, while creating an environment where our negative impact effects almost every single form of life that we know about, most usually for the worse. We have created possible future events that could all but wipe out life for millions of years just for a few short years of light for our houses and businesses. If our world economy really and totally collapses, which looks very possible at this point, there could come a dominoe effect that literally burns down the planet to the point where we long with everything else go extinct. Two or three Fukishimas In the wrong location could easily start off this catastrophic chain.

On top of that we coddle our children to the point where they have no natural defense. We train them to be soft and weak, without the ability to fend for themselves in an everincreasingly dangerous future. We sacrifice thousands of years of learning how to gleam the most possible energy from agriculture and trade it for the most wasteful and harmful practices that have ever existed. We leave our children without any options, with no way out of the horrible consequences of our unhinged drive to exploit nature.

Whether it be hot or cold, all this transletes a literal HELL ON EARTH to me.

I have to wonder if my four year old girl will ever have children, and if she does, what will she see in store for them and theirs?

Meanwhile the debate goes on and on and on...