The Atomic Bombings on Japan were war crimes and here is why!

reply to post by daaskapital


War crime is a silly word without a reason to exist.

War is a crime. And therefore none who partake in it are innocent.

But more importantly, nothing done in war is not a crime, for it is entirely a crime. So there are no real "rules" to war.

You exterminate your enemy. End of story.

Your argument was destroyed in the first line..."where possible..."

It was not possible and would not have been had an invasion occurred. The lives lost in a full scale military invasion of Japan by the US would have exceeded those lost with the atomic Bombs.

You so far off you made me laugh.

Interesting dasskapotal. While I do side with you on it being a war crime I give you a challenge. You find me one war were these rules are followed. War is a terrible thing. The rules we have unfortunately go out the window for both sides.

Wish there was no war at all, but there is. It will always be fought dirty. By both sides.

Several posters have agreed with the original OP and after reading through all the posts I have to ask what was the purpose of the OP?

Sure under the Articles the bombings could be considered war crimes, and all sides were guilty of war crimes. AND??? Other than an invitation to being attacked for his presented material and as a basis for attacking anyone who disagreed what’s the point of this entire thread?

No nation today is going to go back and say the US owes reparations for war crimes in 1945. Wasn't it on the 65th anniversary before any of the 'Allies" attended the annual memorial that commemorated the bombing? If our "Allies" who were also aware of the Articles felt the US had committed war crimes, then why did they also wait 65 years to attend?

I wanna say that applying rules to warfare is like trying to make rules for the thief that is robbing you but I keep hearing my dad in my head. He would always say, you don't fight fair, you fight to win. You bite, you scratch, you pull hair. Then you get mad.

Were they war crimes? Probably. I think in the end it was just the US got mad.

Have fun and thanks for the OP and history lesson.

reply to post by daaskapital


By the token the author has thrown, the British would be the biggest war criminals of the second world war(followed by the NAZI's, Japan, France and the the USA). The reason why the Japanese don't raise too much of a fuss is because they committed far worse crimes during the second world war. That probably factored into the nuking of Japan, because by that point Japan was forced out of China and SE Asia..

reply to post by daaskapital


Way to cherry pick and focus on only one Country.....



Did you know Both Japan and America never signed the Geneva Protocol for Chemical weapons, and Japan used chemical weapons against China in WW2?

Do you know the estimation of American deaths if Operation Olympic, Operation Coronet, Operation Downfall (Invasion of Japan) or Operation Ketsu-Go (Japans plans for invasion) was actually implemented? How about Japanese deaths?

Would like to see a comprehensive thread, that deals with ALL the variables. Not the one handpicked to make one side "look bad"......

In addition, the Japanese had organized the Patriotic Citizens Fighting Corps, which included all healthy men aged 15 to 60 and women 17 to 40 for a total of 28 million people, for combat support and, later, combat jobs. Weapons, training, and uniforms were generally lacking: some men were armed with nothing better than muzzle-loading muskets, longbows, or bamboo spears; nevertheless, they were expected to make do with what they had.[25]

Operation Downfall

Very well researched and written to which I say , so?

The 2 bombs essentially ended the Pacific part of WWII which saved hundreds of thousands of lives most likely.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by daaskapital

 

Way to cherry pick and focus on only one Country.....

Did you know Both Japan and America never signed the Geneva Protocol for Chemical weapons, and Japan used chemical weapons against China in WW2?

Both countries signed the Hague Conventions and the Hague Rules of Air Warfare though (which is what this thread was looking at). So this thread still holds true.

Do you know the estimation of American deaths if Operation Olympic, Operation Coronet, Operation Downfall (Invasion of Japan) or Operation Ketsu-Go (Japans plans for invasion) was actually implemented? How about Japanese deaths?

I don't know the exact estimations, but it would have been a great number.

Would like to see a comprehensive thread, that deals with ALL the variables. Not the one handpicked to make one side "look bad"......

As i have stated, this thread was focusing on the WMD bombings of Japan specifically. No more, no less. As such, i felt that the war crimes committed by other countries did not fit within the spheres of this thread. I will still make a thread in the future detailing the crimes committed by other powers during the war however (Germany, Japan, UK etc).

In addition, the Japanese had organized the Patriotic Citizens Fighting Corps, which included all healthy men aged 15 to 60 and women 17 to 40 for a total of 28 million people, for combat support and, later, combat jobs. Weapons, training, and uniforms were generally lacking: some men were armed with nothing better than muzzle-loading muskets, longbows, or bamboo spears; nevertheless, they were expected to make do with what they had.[25]

Operation Downfall

edit on 23-12-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the info.

reply to post by daaskapital


Yeah...but you're missing the most COMPELLING reasons they were war crimes.

#1. Japan had been BEGGING to surrender for almost a year prior.

#2. The Japanese Navy was destroyed...they were down to something like 7 ships total...none of them with fuel.

#3 We had them completely encircled and there was NO IRON, STEEL, ALUMINUM, OR OIL left on the Japanese mainland.

There was simply no military reason to drop the bombs and kill all those civilians.

dont forget to add that USA fire bomb'd ALL other citys in japan.
just not the ones they planed to Nuc...

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by daaskapital

 

Way to cherry pick and focus on only one Country.....

Did you know Both Japan and America never signed the Geneva Protocol for Chemical weapons, and Japan used chemical weapons against China in WW2?

Do you know the estimation of American deaths if Operation Olympic, Operation Coronet, Operation Downfall (Invasion of Japan) or Operation Ketsu-Go (Japans plans for invasion) was actually implemented? How about Japanese deaths?

Would like to see a comprehensive thread, that deals with ALL the variables. Not the one handpicked to make one side "look bad"......

In addition, the Japanese had organized the Patriotic Citizens Fighting Corps, which included all healthy men aged 15 to 60 and women 17 to 40 for a total of 28 million people, for combat support and, later, combat jobs. Weapons, training, and uniforms were generally lacking: some men were armed with nothing better than muzzle-loading muskets, longbows, or bamboo spears; nevertheless, they were expected to make do with what they had.[25]

Operation Downfall

edit on 23-12-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

OK...but there was no reason to invade the Japanese mainland. They were already defeated and with the taking of Okinawa they already lost.

There was roughly 0.0% chance that we would have invaded Japan anyways. It was completely unnecessary and totally counterproductive to American interests.

reply to post by daaskapital


OP guess the only real thing that you can take from this tread is that haters going to hate and rules in war don't exist.

Originally posted by milominderbinder
#1. Japan had been BEGGING to surrender for almost a year prior.

No they were not, that is a myth pushed by japanese apologists/USA haters.

If Japan had wanted to surrender they would have, but it took 2 atomic bombs and the intervention of the emperor before they surrendered.

It was very easy to them surrender, but they refused to.

Originally posted by buddha
dont forget to add that USA fire bomb'd ALL other citys in japan.
just not the ones they planed to Nuc...

That was raised slightly in this thread by some members...

They too, were war crimes if one were to go by the laws stated in this thread. The devastation was just horrible...a lot of the cities were wooden...

Thanks for your reply!

Originally posted by milominderbinder
reply to post by daaskapital

 

Yeah...but you're missing the most COMPELLING reasons they were war crimes.

#1. Japan had been BEGGING to surrender for almost a year prior.

#2. The Japanese Navy was destroyed...they were down to something like 7 ships total...none of them with fuel.

#3 We had them completely encircled and there was NO IRON, STEEL, ALUMINUM, OR OIL left on the Japanese mainland.

There was simply no military reason to drop the bombs and kill all those civilians.

Yes, all that and more is proof that the bombings were war crimes.

I agree!

Thanks for the reply!

Originally posted by whywhynot
reply to post by daaskapital

 

OP guess the only real thing that you can take from this tread is that haters going to hate and rules in war don't exist.

Going by the general response to this thread, I'm going to have to agree with you!

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by milominderbinder
#1. Japan had been BEGGING to surrender for almost a year prior.

No they were not, that is a myth pushed by japanese apologists/USA haters.

If Japan had wanted to surrender they would have, but it took 2 atomic bombs and the intervention of the emperor before they surrendered.

It was very easy to them surrender, but they refused to.

Keep telling yourself that, if it helps you sleep at night. I don't care.

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by whywhynot
reply to post by daaskapital

 

OP guess the only real thing that you can take from this tread is that haters going to hate and rules in war don't exist.

Going by the general response to this thread, I'm going to have to agree with you!

Yeah...you gotta love how people are defending the murder of 356,000 innocent civilians including 23 US POW's in Hiroshima.

About 3 months ago I had a lengthy thread on this very topic too....but I tell you what. Watch Oliver Stones newest documentary series that's out entitled "Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States" on Showtime this month. Episode 1-3 covers the subject nicely and more thoroughly than I can realistically do on ATS w/ the character limit and all. Here is the link to the series website:
www.sho.com...

...or naturally you can also check it out on Netflix or the torrent tracker of your choice.

Originally posted by pacifier2012
Your argument was destroyed in the first line..."where possible..."

It was not possible and would not have been had an invasion occurred. The lives lost in a full scale military invasion of Japan by the US would have exceeded those lost with the atomic Bombs.

You so far off you made me laugh.

There was ZERO reason to invade the Japanese mainland. Japan had no air force, navy, oil, iron, steel or aluminum and it's 1,000,000 man army was stranded without bullets in Manchuria w/ a whole lot of Russian tanks on their way.

...what exactly do we think Japan was going to do anyways? Swim out to our aircraft carriers and stab them w/ their samurai swords??

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by whywhynot
reply to post by daaskapital

 

OP guess the only real thing that you can take from this tread is that haters going to hate and rules in war don't exist.

Going by the general response to this thread, I'm going to have to agree with you!

Yeah...you gotta love how people are defending the murder of 356,000 innocent civilians including 23 US POW's in Hiroshima.

About 3 months ago I had a lengthy thread on this very topic too....but I tell you what. Watch Oliver Stones newest documentary series that's out entitled "Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States" on Showtime this month. Episode 1-3 covers the subject nicely and more thoroughly than I can realistically do on ATS w/ the character limit and all. Here is the link to the series website:
www.sho.com...

...or naturally you can also check it out on Netflix or the torrent tracker of your choice.

Indeed. I don't understand why people are still trying to defend the bombings even though they clearly violated international law at the time. It boggles my mind.

Thanks for the information! I'll be sure to watch it!

Thanks again