The Atomic Bombings on Japan were war crimes and here is why!

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by milominderbinder


The pertinent documents which show Japan's repeated attempts to ask us for terms to surrender were not declassified until the 1980's.

There were NO terms the allies were going to agree upon, EXCEPT theirs....

Japan knew this.

That's what happens when you make war, and lose.

Following are our terms. We will not deviate from them. There are no alternatives. We shall brook no delay.

Key Words? There are no alternatives..............


We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction.

Key Words? The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction....................

For somebody that says they "know their history" you sure play the role of one that doesn't.......

Potsdam Declaration

edit on 27-12-2012 by sonnny1 because: Link

Great. So...then we killed a half million people unnecessarily because we were such gigantic douchebag's we wouldn't even return a (metaphorical) phone call.

....Any way you look at it IT'S COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY SLAUGHTER OF (MOSTLY) INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

reply to post by milominderbinder


As I knew you would you have dug up communications records between the U.S. and other U.S. supporting groups or neutral sources that were in communication with all sorts of Japanese groups, individuals, Military...with THE EXCEPTION OF THE ONLY GROUP THAT MATTERED....THE JAPANESE ARMY HIGH COMMAND.

The Japanese Army High Command controlled Japan and all Japans remaining Military. Even the Japanese Emperor had no control over the Army. The Army High Command REFUSED TO SURRENDER. Any other agreement between the U.S. and any other party that was not the Japanese Army was WORTHLESS.

You are showing me just how little you know about this issue and are making mistakes that an uninformed High School kid might make who was tasked with writing a paper about this issue.

Split Infinity

So much for master degrees already had little faith in the education system as it was.

Oh and for the revisionist history:

Read or don't better they won't read this:

www.americanthinker.com...

There it is! The smoking gun! But it is nothing of the sort. The message Truman cited did not refer to anything even remotely resembling surrender. It referred instead to the Japanese foreign office's attempt (under the suspicious eyes of the military) to persuade the Soviet Union to broker a negotiated peace that would have permitted the Japanese to retain their prewar empire and their imperial system (not just the emperor) intact. No American president could have accepted such a settlement, as it would have meant abandoning the United States' most basic war aims.

Seen quite a bit of "American evidence" supporting the Japanese wanting to surrender so how bout sourcing Japanese sources imperial that is.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

As I knew you would you have dug up communications records between the U.S. and other U.S. supporting groups or neutral sources that were in communication with all sorts of Japanese groups, individuals, Military...with THE EXCEPTION OF THE ONLY GROUP THAT MATTERED....THE JAPANESE ARMY HIGH COMMAND.

The Japanese Army High Command controlled Japan and all Japans remaining Military. Even the Japanese Emperor had no control over the Army. The Army High Command REFUSED TO SURRENDER. Any other agreement between the U.S. and any other party that was not the Japanese Army was WORTHLESS.

You are showing me just how little you know about this issue and are making mistakes that an uninformed High School kid might make who was tasked with writing a paper about this issue.

Split Infinity

Again. The United States government's official position as well as the official position of almost every single university and professor of history in the entire the world hasn't agreed with you for almost a quarter of a century.

Glad to see you know better, though. You must be really, really smart.

Originally posted by milominderbinder


Kuznick is one of the most respected and non-controversial historians of our time.

Oh my........

When Stone and Kuznick aren’t manipulating reputable sources, they’re enlisting untrustworthy ones. A passage on the Gehlen Organization—a group of former Nazis recruited to assist Allied intelligence after World War II—cites the assessment of “a retired CIA official” who judged the intelligence provided by the group to be “hyped up Russian boogeyman junk” (whether it was or not, of course, is irrelevant to the larger moral issue of the United States government employing ex-Nazis). But look closely and you’ll find that the “former official” is one Victor Marchetti, an anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist whose work can be read in various Holocaust denial journals (he also claims that “We have, indeed, been contacted—perhaps even visited—by extraterrestrial beings,” though the government has covered up the interactions).

Oliver Stone’s Junk History of the United States Debunked

Hes so non-controversial................

reply to post by milominderbinder


Smart? Maybe...Informed...more so than yourself.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by milominderbinder


Great. So...then we killed a half million people unnecessarily because we were such gigantic douchebag's we wouldn't even return a (metaphorical) phone call.

The National Mobilization Law of April 1938 led to an outright order to mobilize all available workers in July 1939.

See the word ALL?


EVERY citizen was a Soldier in Japan, minus the handicapped. A Nation of soldiers. Not civilians.

Every Japanese official questioned but one (and he was contradictory) said he expected the war would have continued absent the shocks of the atomic bombs and Soviet entry.

History lessons for atomic revisionists.

I don't know WHY you are trying to "revise" History, especially being a "so-called" history student.

One more thing?

Hideki Tōjō
Kill tally: At least 20 million Chinese in the Second Sino-Japanese War. About 15 million people killed in the Asia and Pacific regions during the Second World War, including over 11 million Chinese and nearly two million Japanese.

Tojo Hideki


I see NO mention of him, in any of your posts to vilify America. I guess hes one of the "good guys" in your version of history. He killed more of his own people, then America could have ever.

I wonder if he gave his "victims" a (metaphorical) phone call, before killing them?


I doubt it.........

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Wittmann
reply to post by gingerlee

 

The difference being that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings were a way of showing the Japanese government that there is no way they can win, as America has the bomb. On the other hand, Germany had their communication network badly damaged by this point, so the impact of Dresden was only felt after the war by the majority of people, even if Goebbels made a few addresses about it. The Atomic Bombings were a threat, Dresden was revenge.

No. You are wrong.

Japan had been desperately trying to surrender for almost a year already, they had no navy, no air force, no fuel, no iron, no steel, and no aluminium, and their million man army in Manchuria had no food, bullets, or resupply lines with the Russian tank divisions closing in on them.

The lies you were told in high school history class are just that...lies.

No sir I say its revisionist historians like YOU that are quoting lies.

There has been MULTIPLE articles in books, documentaries, and investigations that have aired on history channel, A & E, ect on this matter.

Even if you ignore the hundreds of suicide boats, hidden aircraft, ammution, and DOCUMENTED EVEIDENCE BY THE JAPANEESE THEMSELVES of them training civilians (even children) to fight with spears there is okinawa.

Oh you don't seem to want to admit the horror on okanawa.

Let me refresh your memory. The soldiers fought on in banzi charges when the ammo ran out. They would kill themselves in the caves to prevent capture. It was known they booby trapped their own bodies with grenades to kill americans and/or themselves.

The most CONVIRMED horror was suicide cliffs (I may be wrong on the exact name) where american soldiers (in japanese) tried to get civilian woman to stop throwing their OWN CHILDREN (before themselves) off the cliffs to prevent capture by americans. EVEN WHEN TOLD IN THEIR LANGUAGE they would not be harmed they still choose to believe their own governmental propganda.

So you are trying to convince us (or yourself) that somehow on the home island they knew better?

Then there was the PROVEN FACT that after the two bombs were dropped the emporer put his surrender on two records to be played on national radio. The night before the playing the military attempted a coup. They planned to take over important strategic sites (including the radio stations), kidnap the emporer and keep the war going.

If it was not for a raid by americans (who temp knocked out power) and a brave servant hid the records. This servant risked his life to protect those records. Without them the coup would fail the minute they appeared.

The coup failed.

Last bit of trivia from the book KAMAKASi written by a pilot who served in a suicide squadron (note was slated to become one untill the bombs were dropped).

In it he told of how the air base commander (after the surrender order) had the ammo and props removed from the remaining planes to prevent some from continuing the war.

So you can yell, scream, and repeat your comments till your blue in the face.

THEY ARE NOT NOR WILL EVER BE FACT.

Ger over it

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

As I knew you would you have dug up communications records between the U.S. and other U.S. supporting groups or neutral sources that were in communication with all sorts of Japanese groups, individuals, Military...with THE EXCEPTION OF THE ONLY GROUP THAT MATTERED....THE JAPANESE ARMY HIGH COMMAND.

The Japanese Army High Command controlled Japan and all Japans remaining Military. Even the Japanese Emperor had no control over the Army. The Army High Command REFUSED TO SURRENDER. Any other agreement between the U.S. and any other party that was not the Japanese Army was WORTHLESS.

You are showing me just how little you know about this issue and are making mistakes that an uninformed High School kid might make who was tasked with writing a paper about this issue.

Split Infinity

Again. The United States government's official position as well as the official position of almost every single university and professor of history in the entire the world hasn't agreed with you for almost a quarter of a century.

Glad to see you know better, though. You must be really, really smart.

Really binder you are going to stand behind this statement?

The very fact you made it not only shows your despiration (or should I say temper tantrum) at being called out and PROVEN wrong.

It also completely distroy your credibility.

Ignoring the basic IMPOSSIBLITY that "United States government's official position as well as the official position of almost every single university and professor of history in the entire the world " agrees with your position.

Give us names, quotes on most every person and government official.

Yes the USA did show sympathy to the japanese people for the distruction that the war (THEY STARTED) caused. But in no way did we EVER say we commited a crime or did something wrong.

That is revisionist people like you that TO THIS DAY refuse to look at all the facts of the war at that time.

The truly sad thing is as we loose those people from that generation who not only fought in the war, but lived though it (USA, allies, and enemies) the true nature and facts of that time are lost.

As they pass on there will be no one with direct knowledge and experience to go to.

The gap will be filled with people like the OP who not only refuse to look at the time factually and the whole picture.

They will look at it in their time, with their bias, and continue to try to use whatever means (example the OP twisting rules of war which are basically abiguous at the best of times) they can to paint the acts as bad, wrong, or illegal.

They are noting more than revisionist who exibit the very re-writing of history as shown in orwell's book 1984.

The very thing they usually fight against.

As Patton said..."WAR IS HELL"

reply to post by scrounger


I agree. My family is Military and if you talked to one of my Great Uncles they would tell you one of the Happiest Day in their Lives was when they found out we dropped an Atomic Bomb on Japan.

All some people can do is look at the results of how we won that war and refuse to look at what the Japanese had done to us as well as Asia and to the people of the Pacific when forming their opinion.

The Japanese were Murderous and Ruthless. They had no respect for Human Life. The Japanese Army would have forced their people to fight down to the last Man, Woman and Child. Only the thought of the quick and easy obliteration of their people and country was reason enough for them to surrender.

Split Infinity

reply to post by scrounger


no one who has studied the subject argues otherwise. Eisenhower allowed one million Germans to starve to death post war. they start fighting and all go nuts. these are all war crimes. in every and any sense..

Originally posted by gingerlee
Eisenhower allowed one million Germans to starve to death post war.

No he didnt, but dont let the facts stop your anti USA rant!

reply to post by daaskapital


Trying to wipe out 50 thousand to 100 thousand people in one pass killing women and children is a war crime?

Wow implicated in 9/11, Oklahoma bombings, pearl harbor, selling guns to drug lords, bringing drugs into the country through three letter agencies, assassinating people and fixing elections, defrauding its own people to the point of slavery, equipping rebels with weapons, leading a false chase for a man costing well over 7 trillion dollars to throw him overboard at sea (LOL at that) using chemical weapons and virus' on its own population with out consent or knowledge, using D.U amunition in war even today and and possibly the titanic just so they could delete those families against the federal act bill. its just dawning on you now that this government commits war crimes? i have known this since 12 years old. ^^

I agree with you whole heartily and its disgusting I mean the damn blast killed people so fast it left their shadows on walls, now that's just $%^& up let alone all the problems for 50+ years after with deformed babies and what not.

if project paperclip never took place, this would have never happend(might). with einstein working with the nazi scientists we brought over from that project, they helped create manhatten project.

Star for you and I don't hand em out often ^^

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
if project paperclip never took place,

It did not start until 1945....

this would have never happend(might). with einstein working with the nazi scientists

Einstein emigrated to the USA in 1933....

we brought over from that project, they helped create manhatten project.

That started in 1939...

You really do not know much about WW2 history, do you!

reply to post by ~widowmaker~


Operation Paperclip didn't happen until AFTER the war, so it didn't have anything to do with the atomic bombings. Einstein came to the US before the war, but the rest of the German scientists involved in Paperclip weren't until 1945-46.

reply to post by hellobruce


my bad i as i read it it stated the project started in 39-45 and before that there was a temporary project with similar outcomes which turned into project paperclip to keep them instead of sending back. so if some were here in 39-44 and half before the drop,........

Operation Paperclip was the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) program used to recruit the scientists of Nazi Germany for employment by the United States in the aftermath of World War II (1939–45).

en.wikipedia.org...

American airmen dropped Little Boy on the city of Hiroshima on 6 August 1945, followed by Fat Man over Nagasaki on 9 August.

en.wikipedia.org...

ok ill leave it at if einstein never came to america it might have not happend ^^ and i wasnt implying at all he came with them as why i stated worked with them not came over with them, and if it started in 39 and we droped it on 45 there is still a very good chance they did work on it.

reply to post by Zaphod58


the source i was reading said project started 39-45......if it is wrong i am sorry.


Operation Paperclip was the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) program used to recruit the scientists of Nazi Germany for employment by the United States in the aftermath of World War II (1939–45)

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
Operation Paperclip was the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) program used to recruit the scientists of Nazi Germany for employment by the United States in the aftermath of World War II (1939–45)

en.wikipedia.org...

WW2 went from 1939-1945, as it states, Operation Paperclip was used in the aftermath, so 1945+