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The Atomic Bombings on Japan were war crimes and here is why!

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posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder
False. They had desperately been trying to surrender for almost a year earlier.


You seem to think constantly repeating a lie somehow makes it true.... Why is that?




posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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Seriously that claim is ludicrous there is even film documentation that the Japanese were sending Kamikaze fighters in the last days of the war. Does that sound like a nation that is trying to surrender?

I swear some people live in a different universe from the rest of us where history ran a different course that or they are just plain ignorant.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 


LOL! Your asking ME to read a book!? LOL!

You really should be careful about who you misjudge. I would also suggest that you should think about getting personal in a manner that does not attempt to make a point conductive to the debate other than to attempt to direct your obvious lack of self control of your emotions upon another...and in this case...someone you have zero knowledge of.

I don't mind if you were to be personal in an honest attempt at conveying an idea or concept that would benefit the debate...but you are not doing this here.

Truman went out of his way in several attempts to convince the Japanese Military to surrender. You statement that the Japanese were begging to surrender is BULL. The Japanese Army controlled that country as well as the other Japanese Armed Services. It became obvious that under no circumstances would the Japanese Army surrender.

It is YOU who needs to brush up on your History and even the current Japanese understanding of what exactly happened in 1945 and Japanese Historians will admit that there were NO CIRCUMSTANCES by which the Japanese Army at that time would agree to surrender.

The Japanese Army in fact only offered to stop attacking U.S. Forces and would not even accept a cease fire against Chinese Forces by their troops in Asia.

There was no way that the U.S. would allow the Japanese Army to rebuild as that is what they intended to do...bargain for time and rebuild for war. The dropping of the two Nuclear Bombs saved lives on both sides in the Multiple Millions.

By the way...I work on occasion with members of the U.S. Military. I am keenly aware of Military History. You should never personally attack people that you have no idea in which the way they might respond.

Split Infinity



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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Back during WW2 both the Japanese and the Germans were infamous for setting IEDs or as they were termed then Bobby Traps. We had strict regulations against doing the same it took permission from nothing less than a general to set one however I am sure that order was broken on occasion the fact remains that it was not permitted by our side. We held ourselves to a higher standard than the enemy.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder
Hell...the Japanese even met with the VATICAN and had the CHURCH beg for their surrender too.


Care to provide a valid source for that claim....


They were confused


Actually you are the one confused here.
edit on 27-12-2012 by hellobruce because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


On the other hand the Allies strapped bombs to dogs and had them run at tanks.

There is guilt on all sides, so let's not try and make one person take more than they have, that's what started World War 2.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 





LOL! Your asking ME to read a book!? LOL!


No I believe its the new 10 part 10 hour Oliver Stone documentary being refered to. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Here is part 1....




posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by ken10
 


I have never understood why Stone needs to embellish History with made up facts just to make History fit the screenplay of his movies. History is interesting enough on it's own.

Split Infinity



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by ken10
 


I have never understood why Stone needs to embellish History with made up facts just to make History fit the screenplay of his movies. History is interesting enough on it's own.

Split Infinity



I believe it is based on the research of one Peter Kuznick



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by Wittmann
 


Like I stated there is no doubt that war is hell and I even said that the allieds probably did it without permission. It sounds cruel to use dogs in that manner true however I understand the dilemma they were in facing armored vehicles without the equipment necessary to defeat it. It isn’t the ideal way to fight but dogs have been used in that fashion for centuries.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 



Really.

They were soldiers WAITING to sacrifice their lives for an invasion. The emperors decree made it LAW.

Christ.......
edit on 27-12-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by milominderbinder
Japan had been desperately trying to surrender for almost a year already,


What a lot of garbage, a country doesnt "try" to surrender, they either surrender, or don't surrender.
Japan was NOT "trying" to surrender, as if they really wanted to surrender they would have.

Why are you revising history?


I have a Master's degree in History. History is ALWAYS being revised as new information comes to light. That's what Historians do.

The pertinent documents which show Japan's repeated attempts to ask us for terms to surrender were not declassified until the 1980's.

This is such irrefutable historical fact that you can even find said documents right on the CIA's own website. It's just not something that historians really even debate anymore. Here are some links for you.

www.cia.gov...

www.ihr.org...

www.hnn.us...



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by milominderbinder
False. They had desperately been trying to surrender for almost a year earlier.


You seem to think constantly repeating a lie somehow makes it true.... Why is that?


Don't take my word for it. I replied to one of your other posts with links to historical journals and the documents themselves which are archived on the CIA's own website.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


LOL! Your asking ME to read a book!? LOL!

You really should be careful about who you misjudge. I would also suggest that you should think about getting personal in a manner that does not attempt to make a point conductive to the debate other than to attempt to direct your obvious lack of self control of your emotions upon another...and in this case...someone you have zero knowledge of.

I don't mind if you were to be personal in an honest attempt at conveying an idea or concept that would benefit the debate...but you are not doing this here.

Truman went out of his way in several attempts to convince the Japanese Military to surrender. You statement that the Japanese were begging to surrender is BULL. The Japanese Army controlled that country as well as the other Japanese Armed Services. It became obvious that under no circumstances would the Japanese Army surrender.

It is YOU who needs to brush up on your History and even the current Japanese understanding of what exactly happened in 1945 and Japanese Historians will admit that there were NO CIRCUMSTANCES by which the Japanese Army at that time would agree to surrender.

The Japanese Army in fact only offered to stop attacking U.S. Forces and would not even accept a cease fire against Chinese Forces by their troops in Asia.

There was no way that the U.S. would allow the Japanese Army to rebuild as that is what they intended to do...bargain for time and rebuild for war. The dropping of the two Nuclear Bombs saved lives on both sides in the Multiple Millions.

By the way...I work on occasion with members of the U.S. Military. I am keenly aware of Military History. You should never personally attack people that you have no idea in which the way they might respond.

Split Infinity



The United States government, and every single historian and historical journal I have ever encountered have not agreed with your position for almost 25 years.


www.cia.gov...
www.ihr.org...
www.hnn.us...
edit on 27-12-2012 by milominderbinder because: formatting



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder


I have a Master's degree in History.


Right.

I think if Hideki Tōjō Himself told you Japan wouldn't surrender, you would call him a LIAR......


Besides, you were given proof throughout this thread. You decided NOT to either look at it, understand it, or blatantly and willfully deny it.

Which one is it? No one wants to regurgitate facts for anyone.......




posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by milominderbinder


I have a Master's degree in History.


Right.

I think if Hideki Tōjō Himself told you Japan wouldn't surrender, you would call him a LIAR......


Besides, you were given proof throughout this thread. You decided NOT to either look at it, understand it, or blatantly and willfully deny it.

Which one is it? No one wants to regurgitate facts for anyone.......



Well...the US Government's official publicly stated position on the matter for almost 25 years now has been that Japan was trying to surrender to anybody who listen to them since January of 1945. We simply refused to even talk to them and just kept attacking anyways.

Here are the memo's on the CIA's own website.

www.cia.gov...



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder


The pertinent documents which show Japan's repeated attempts to ask us for terms to surrender were not declassified until the 1980's.



There were NO terms the allies were going to agree upon, EXCEPT theirs....

Japan knew this.

That's what happens when you make war, and lose.

Following are our terms. We will not deviate from them. There are no alternatives. We shall brook no delay.

Key Words? There are no alternatives..............


We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction.

Key Words? The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction....................

For somebody that says they "know their history" you sure play the role of one that doesn't.......



Potsdam Declaration



edit on 27-12-2012 by sonnny1 because: Link



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder
I have a Master's degree in History


I find that very hard to believe.

Please explain how you get "Hell...the Japanese even met with the VATICAN and had the CHURCH beg for their surrender too"
from

They did not lead in any way to the eventual Japanese notes sent through standard diplomatic channels


So someone casually mentioned it to someone in the vatican suddenly becomes "Japanese begging to surrender"....


History is ALWAYS being revised


Yes, we see a lot of that here, jew haters trying to revise the holocaust and USA haters trying to revise the history of the Japanese during WW2


But he emphasized that unconditional surrender was unacceptable


Not really begging to surrender then....

If japan had really wanted to surrender they would have.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by ken10

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by ken10
 


I have never understood why Stone needs to embellish History with made up facts just to make History fit the screenplay of his movies. History is interesting enough on it's own.

Split Infinity



I believe it is based on the research of one Peter Kuznick



Correct.

Kuznick is one of the most respected and non-controversial historians of our time. Oliver Stone just did the film end of things and stuck his name on it for TV. The book is credited to both as co-authors.



posted on Dec, 27 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by milominderbinder
I have a Master's degree in History


I find that very hard to believe.

Please explain how you get "Hell...the Japanese even met with the VATICAN and had the CHURCH beg for their surrender too"
from

They did not lead in any way to the eventual Japanese notes sent through standard diplomatic channels


So someone casually mentioned it to someone in the vatican suddenly becomes "Japanese begging to surrender"....


History is ALWAYS being revised


Yes, we see a lot of that here, jew haters trying to revise the holocaust and USA haters trying to revise the history of the Japanese during WW2


But he emphasized that unconditional surrender was unacceptable


Not really begging to surrender then....

If japan had really wanted to surrender they would have.


Whatever you need to tell yourself....I know it's hard to admit that we don't always wear white cowboy hats.






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