To Those Struggling with their Non-Faith:

Originally posted by jeneri
Nobody knows.

The Shadow knows!

So do I..

Once a person has experienced a mind blowing supernatural encounter with the Creator of the universe, doubt is no longer an option.

It goes from faith, to knowing, to FACT... You simply KNOW.

Many of you have simply confused religion with God.

You have believed the LIE that since religion is a scam, God must be a lie as well.

Contrary to popular belief, God and religion have NOTHING in common.

Religion is the very LAST place you will ever find God and the truth.

FACT: everything you "think" you know is a lie.

If you EVER encounter God like I did or the guy below did, you WILL know and never even THINK about "Non-Faith" again:

OP, this was a really good idea for a thread! It's great when people can come to share experiences of their struggles. Noticed a Christian one on here a couple weeks ago, nice to see one that I can relate to now.

It's sad that the thread's kinda gone off-topic now, but it's to be expected.

I struggled. Hard. Problem is, my parents never really forced me. We were Catholics, and it was just a family thing. Went to church. Went to Catholic schools. We just went through the motions, and it took me a while to realise how much I was faking it. I know now that I liked learning about religion rather than actually practising it.

My parents were cool, since my Dad has essentially been an atheist all his life, where my Mum is more like a pandeist now... I guess. But they weren't the problem, and neither were the priests. Of course, Catholic priests are unusually well-read in other philosophies and religions, and the requirements for salvation are admittedly different in RC doctrine (but they're cool people, so stop with the Catholic-bashing, everyone!)

I would have been okay, if it wasn't for my Bible-obsessed grandmother (lovely woman, just narrow-minded) and the Afro-Caribbean community in general, which is overwhelmingly Christian in other forms. Being exposed to so many different doctrines, and many of them subscribing to the sweltering, sulphuric lake of fire put me on a path to despair. I wanted to hold on, just in case.

I really did, and sometimes it left me sitting in my room, contemplating nothing else but my eventual fiery torment for questioning my maker.

No matter how much stands to reason, logic and evidence, the only thing that can shake off this "fear of God" (pardon the pun) is gall.

Even now, I see and hear the zealots, and the way they proselytize scares me. It's sounds like they're taunting me, calling out for my blood in the name of their king. Sometimes on this forum, sometimes on the Internet, sometimes my extended family and even those in the marketplaces.

But it's all in my head, and my own personal struggle. I blame no one but myself for holding onto these insecurities. I know that some of the other atheists might find this post hilarious, but it's really me.

When the lady in the OP's vid said "I used to wish I could believe," it struck such a chord, because I still get that every now and again. But constant doubt is my cross to bear (sorry) and my raison d'etre as an atheist - having all of the answers (or thinking you do) is way overrated.

Originally posted by Toadmund

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Toadmund

 

We don't choose God. It's the opposite. He prepares us for faith or we have none.

So, you are chosen by god, how special.

All the rest of us are just not good enough.
If we have lack of faith, god did that to us, put doubt in our minds.
What kind of a sick mind game is that?

Scripture is the preparation, but a person must seek. I can point you in that direction, yet only God can open your mind. It's a reciprocal agreement between soul and spirit. Like any relationship, it goes both ways.

Acts 17

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

We are meant to questions our beliefs, it is a test of faith.
So why you may not believe in such a thing as faith, you are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing.
When you ask questions, and truly mean it, you will get an answer, in one way or the other.
The answers are the lessons we learn, and the faith is revealed by enduring it.

PLPL

reply to post by Toadmund


Wow...I don't think Toadmund was looking for a sermon or someone to "save his soul". Or...maybe he was...I don't know.

Toad, from my reading, studying and meditation, I find peace with the idea of a Universal Mind. I do not name it, I do not attribute it to a religion. I believe many of the religions have attempted to describe it and have used the idea of it to control billions of people...but I do not think a human mind is capable of comprehending it and damn sure none are qualified to speak on it's behalf.

Suffice to say, that in my mind, I believe in a Universal Mind, an intelligent creator and a Omnipresent force. I do not believe much of "the law" that has been written by men to control other men. That does not mean I do not read these books and texts...I do. But I always bear in mind that they were written by men. I take it with a grain of salt and try to remember that if it is telling you to free your heart, your mind and your spirit...it is probably a thought from the Universal Mind...if it is commanding you to behave this way or that way or to pay tithes and send money...it is probably a rule of men.

My problem started when I was going to church! I had to question what the preaher was saying to what I was reading for myself! Something was not right so I decided to use my brain then listen to what was being said.

So still something is not right since God as I understand Him, really does not exist! So I read various books, ideas and thoughts; some good ones out there, only still come up with the concept that Man created God!

Somehow the concept of God became warped, forgotton and lost. Something is missing; like all the books the Church has hidden underground no one gets to read. I must have faith though!

I think somehow WE are the falling Angels who fell from Grace. Still as I do try to grasp ang concept out there and as my mind trys to conceive it all. I am still hung up on the point that I am my OWN God of my life!

It would be nice to see God come down and spend some time here; we need it! If it was that Important He would have done this already so I am at a lost.

Really though, what does matter in life? I speak for myself when I say this so here it goes! You know when its wrong before you do it so at least accept the acts that go with what you do! Since blaming anything but yourself is the wrong way, might as well feel good doing something right!

We have our bad days, so what? Part of life and if everything was perfect........... So get a grip and learn something about yourself PLEASE!

Originally posted by Minori
We are meant to questions our beliefs, it is a test of faith.
So why you may not believe in such a thing as faith, you are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing.
When you ask questions, and truly mean it, you will get an answer, in one way or the other.
The answers are the lessons we learn, and the faith is revealed by enduring it.

PLPL

Do not 'believe'. Realize the truth instead.

reply to post by ihavenoaccount


Hey brother!
Sounds like your story is similar to mine, you tried to believe, but you kid yourself, you think of burning lakes of fire, then at some point you realise it operates like a cult.
Religion without the threat of eternal damnation would have died 100's of years ago.
It's the cultish fear that keeps people hanging on.

People are not devoted to god, they are devoted to keeping their butts off the eternal hot plate.

Essentially that's what it is the cult is still alive because of instilled fear.

Good luck in your non-faith

reply to post by Minori


If my questioning brings me to a truth, that is what I will embrace.
I don't just believe anything, faith means believing without proof.

That's where I stand on the matter, if god wants to appear to me, I'll consider everything I ever thought, but so far not enough convincing has happened, so I continue the questioning and doubt.

reply to post by Jeremiah65


That was a good post.
I can dig that.
My god is the Universe, because that is what created us, through the power of atomic forces, we were crafted though that, in the furnace of a star, that was created by the Universe. (note the capital U, I always capital the Word Universe.
It created us.

reply to post by infoseeker26754


Your avatar name is wisely chosen, you seek knowledge before belief.
It is all up to you.
Do you take it or leave it?
Burning forever is quite a threat for having doubt, just like a cult.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain


Do not 'believe'. Realize the truth instead.

That's where I am at, trying to get to the truth.

Where is god now?
Does god reside in the thoughts in a mans mind, is it all made up?
Is god an ancient alien, just like all the other gods in mythology?
I've always entertained the ancient alien theory, I think it makes some sense, I keep an open mind.

reply to post by Toadmund


I am glad you liked the sentiment. Who are we to say that the Universe isn't an intelligent thing? For all we small minded homo sapiens know...it is vastly intelligent and aware. This is my personal opinion and belief. Intelligent design could be the fact that this Universal Mind set a chain of events into motion...the big bang through the formation of galaxies and solar systems...planets...and then on into evolution. Some say that evolution and creationism are not compatible and I say "Hiss" to that...in my mind, they are very compatible. Who are we to comprehend the mind of the Universe?

Man made religion in an effort to describe what he could not understand and as a means to control others. This is just the truth. Somewhere along the line, it was acceptable to say "I am so special, the Universe speaks to me and he said you all have to act in this way...or else". Sounds like a crazy person to me. That's the equivalent of saying "I was just out in the woods and this rock told me to go out into the world and polish rocks for the glory of rocks"...sounds pretty crazy...

I understand we needed a social structure and rules of decent conduct. I digress because I think born within us is the knowledge of right and wrong...the desire to do "good things and not "bad things"...I don't think we need to strike horror and fear into the hearts of others to get them to do the right thing.

Religion was created to control masses of people...plain and simple...I think it has little to do with the will and mind of the Universe. I guess when my heart stops beating and my brain stops thinking, I'll find out for sure.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
This is my personal opinion and belief. Intelligent design could be the fact that this Universal Mind set a chain of events into motion...the big bang through the formation of galaxies and solar systems...planets...and then on into evolution. Some say that evolution and creationism are not compatible and I say "Hiss" to that...in my mind, they are very compatible. Who are we to comprehend the mind of the Universe?

I also argued the complete compatablity of creation and evolution, would a god creat something which could not adapt, that wouild be a pretty dumb creator if you ask me.
However, I am not assuming there was a creator, I just need more evidence, so my god is the Universe, I know it created me and you.

Man made religion in an effort to describe what he could not understand and as a means to control others. This is just the truth. Somewhere along the line, it was acceptable to say "I am so special, the Universe speaks to me and he said you all have to act in this way...or else". Sounds like a crazy person to me. That's the equivalent of saying "I was just out in the woods and this rock told me to go out into the world and polish rocks for the glory of rocks"...sounds pretty crazy...

Or kill your own son as a test of faith.
Using god to explain what is yet to be explained by science still goes on today, in the past we were the center of it all and the sun rotated around the Earth. Disease was gods vengeance. People believed that stuff.
"I can't explain it, so god must have done it" A cell is too complex to arise on it's own, therefore people still believe god created the cell, science says otherwise, all lot of people do not properly understand evolution, that it did not happen over night, but over billions of years, billions!, their explanation is god, god did it.
Simple cop out.

(Wow, I almost lost this post due to 'an act of cat' glad I had it in preview, phew!)

reply to post by Toadmund


I think we agree on most of the conversation. The difference I am seeing is that though we both agree that the Universe created life, the question comes down to is the Universe a sentient, thinking being? I personally think that it is..a mind so far above ours we have absolutely no hope of comprehending it at this stage of our evolution. Perhaps one day we will.

reply to post by Jeremiah65


I wish I could think that.
I have more questioning to do.
I think the Universe 'just is', it created us, but does not care, think, or even know that we exist.
What if the Universe created a supreme being, and not the supreme being created the Universe?

I would think that if our Universe and all the other Universes out there existed forever, no beginning, and no end, that something so amazing could have arose through evolution that it could be incomprehensible to anything we could understand.
How far could a super advanced being influence it's surroundings, or understand everything we as humans do not?
Could they form matter and build planets, travel anywhere in an instant, exist as energy and not matter?
How far could an entity progress through evolution and 'Intelligent design', yes, I said it. I said it because as humans we are doing it, although like GM foods it's hit and miss and it's far from perfect.

If as humans we can live beyond our self destruction, who knows how far our knowledge and science can progress, what mysteries are out there for us yet to tap?
How far can this go?
Biological spacecraft? Imagine that, a spacecraft that is part alive and part machine, could we ever do that?

What is out there?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


In order to learn the truth the first step is to "believe" it posibble.
When you lack conviction in faith, one must first establish where it is rooted.
Once you find the source, the truth will follow.

PLPL

I totally understand where you're at right now. And you may not believe me, and thats fine, maybe you are not supposed to believe it at your stage on this path, but, its not really "the path to godlessness" or whatever you call it. That would indicate that godlessness or nonfaith is the final destination. What you should eventually come to find is that there really is a God...but not THEIR version! Yes, the Church is mostly a big perversion, a lie... But you need to see the double cross here, their little backdoor way of getting you... Cause if you believe them, they got you... And if you become wise and realize their lies and then become atheist, they STILL got ya! Either way, you are not believing, practicing, or living the way God intended you to. Before you can move on to this stage of "the path", you need to be ready to throw out everything. Unlearn everything they've taught you. About people, about sin, about God, Jesus, everything... See, right there when I said Jesus, you thought I'm still indoctrinated.... That's how you know you're not ready for the next stage. See, once you realize that its pretty much all lies, then you realize Jesus can be someone way different than what you were taught. But then, you said you haven't fully reached faithlessness yet. I was not in the church quite as deep or for as long as you, so that may hinder your development unfortunately. Like you said, they mess with peoples minds, pretty bad. At least people today have more ways to access an escape route. And, who knows, you may have so much built up anger against the Church that you may find that you like faithlessness a lot more than I did, as you will be in an eternal quest to smite those who did wrong to you unless you are able to forgive and let that grudge be released from your shoulders. If you are not, then the question begs, will you allow this act of wrongdoing against you define you to a point that your burning desire to seek revenge will inevitably incinerate you whole, like in The Wrath Of Khan, or Moby Dick? All of this is only my opinion of course. I refuse to be like those who "just know" what happens after you die, as well as the answers to a polethera of other impossible questions. But I certainly do hope you find something that brings you love and happiness, whatever that may be for you, so long as it does not hurt anyone else!

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

In order to learn the truth the first step is to "believe" it posibble.

Believe what? Believe religion may be false? To believe does not a fact make. You must mean, to 'know'.

When you lack conviction in faith, one must first establish where it is rooted.

It's rooted in the fact that it is 'faith', not fact, that is where it is rooted.

Once you find the source, the truth will follow.

I have looked at the source, and believe I have found the truth, not your truth, but my truth, but like you, our truth may not be right, but to get truth from 'faith' is really stretching it a bit, faith is faith, and truth is truth, faith is not truth, you cannot prove anything, and neither can I.

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

In order to learn the truth the first step is to "believe" it posibble.
When you lack conviction in faith, one must first establish where it is rooted.
Once you find the source, the truth will follow.

PLPL

The truth cannot be learned or taught. Can source be taught?