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To U.K. Members Suggesting A U.S. Repeal Of The Second Amendment

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posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by Logos23

reply to post by infolurker
 



Originally posted by infolurker

The data shows that nearly 8% of UK residents will be a victim of violent crime, and just over 2% of US residents will be a victim of violent crime?

www.homeoffice.gov.uk...

www2.fbi.gov...
edit on 22-12-2012 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



OK, now answer my question, anything I post not true?
edit on 22-12-2012 by infolurker because: (no reason given)


The point was about the claim of violent crime increasing in the UK....it hasn't....it's reduced by 47% since 1995. And considering that the ban on handgun's was passed in 1997 then the argument about banning gun's in the UK made it a more violent nation are redundant!

Oh and just as a side note.....comparing the UK and US violent crime rate is actually impossible! What the US and the UK class as a violent crime differs .....the UK classes ALL violence and ALL sexual crimes as violence....the US has only five categories of crime it consider's violent crime and for instance....only a sexual crime where a forced rape occurred is considered violent....and the level of injury pertaining to aggravated assault needing for it to be classed as a violent crime in the US differs.
You can't compare violent rate statistics between countries as they all have their own idea of what constitutes a "violent crime" and thus what show's up in their individual statistics. But what you can do is look at the trend's for your own country over the long term to see what is going on.....I'm quite happy with a reduction in violent crime of 47% since 1995!
In the UK 45% of all violent crimes do not include any injury....I'm not sure what the percentage is for the US I would be genuinely interested.




posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by rockledr

Originally posted by citizenx1

Originally posted by Underworlds
It is amazing how gun control advocates in foreign nations such as the U.K. beleive they have the solution for America's problems as they relate to gun crime and violence here. After relinquishing their own firearms in a futile attempt to end gun violence in the U.K., news reports cite statistics that gun crime in England and Wales "soared by 35% last year".

Link: Gun Crime Soars in England Where Guns Are Banned

That news article is dated only a week ago! "Handguns have been used in 46% more offences". How is this possible in a country where guns are outlawed?

Could it be that in outlawing firearms in the U.K. the law-abiding citizen surrendered their means of defense, the criminal element saw their weakness, and there was now little if anything that anyone could do to prevent these crimes from happening?

There are quite a few ATS members from the U.K. spouting off at the mouth as to how great things will be in the United States if we were to ban firearms here... if we were to abolish the Second Amendment rights which we all hold as dear to us as we do the very right to live. Maybe it would be prudent if these friends from the U.K. cleaned up their own back yards first before telling us Americans how we should live our lives.


Speaking as a Brit, its none of our business.

These people have their personal views but they have no right to try and influence the internal politics of a sovereign nation - just as we have had no right to interfere around the world in the last few years.


Thank you for that response. Now if we Americans could get our government to but out of other countries maybe we could get our problems sorted out at home. Then we could all go back to living a happy life worldwide.


Likewise, us Brits should remember the empire is long gone, we're a tiny nation on the decline in military, economic and industrial influence.

We should stop trying to impose our views and aspirations upon the world and try to focus on living a happy life rather than dictating to others.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by Logos23
reply to post by Underworlds
 


No worries


No Australia isn't a part of the UK ....the UK consists of four countries England, Northern Ireland , Scotland and Wales and together they form the sovereign state of the United Kingdom.
I live in England...we have our own flag.....and I consider myself English first and foremost before I consider myself British.




Our passports don't.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by citizenx1
 


and party with us sometimes maybe



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 06:13 AM
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reply to post by Biigs
 


jack the ripper did have you guys on your toes though. the way i see it, i would love to have more british folks over here, the gun laws are more lax specifically in the northwestern hemisphere between seattle and boise, and the more rural you are the less of what you call chavs and such people who make gang culture into the mockery of gun ownership, and the gun owners are somewhat stress free. as a gun owner of a really nice rifle, i get to the range, and with each round my stressors decline until band practice. in all sense of practicalness, the bayonet, fieldstripping tool, are both flathead screwdrivers, imagine that. compared to gun politics in england you can own more historic, efficient, and finer quality firearms for any specific whim you legally may have. and at more reasonable prices. discover it for yourself, you may just be able to change enough minds over there



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 06:17 AM
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reply to post by Motorhead
 


Are you asking how many of those were mass killings in the increase in crime last year or since the gun laws were tightened?

We only have to go back 2 and a half years for our last mass killing, Derrick Bird, shoots 12 people dead with his legally owned 22 rifle and shotgun.

Or does the shooting dead of two unarmed police women for no motive by a gun wielding, grenade throwing psychopath not count either?...........4 months ago

www.bbc.co.uk...

Does that not count as a ‘mass killing’ because it was only 2 people? Yet if 3 or 4 officers turned up to answer the bogus call made for no other purpose other than to shoot dead the responders then we might be able to call it a mass shooting then perhaps?



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


how about this mass shooting?


The number of dead and wounded remains unclear because of the large discrepancies between the different estimates, which range from several hundred to several thousand. Some of the early estimates were based on reports of a casualty figure of 2,600 from the Chinese Red Cross. PBS Foundation claim the official Chinese government figure is 241 dead, including soldiers, and 7,000 wounded.[113]

Nicholas D. Kristof of The New York Times wrote that due to the lack of physical evidence it is impossible to determine the actual number of casualties, but that "it seems plausible that about fifty soldiers and policemen were killed, along with 400 to 800 civilians."[114]

The Chinese government has maintained that there were no deaths within the Square itself. Jay Mathews, former Beijing bureau chief for the Washington Post said "as far as can be determined from the available evidence, no one died that night in Tiananmen Square".[115] Videos taken there at the time recorded the sound of gunshots but there is no video showing anyone being shot. The State Council claimed 5,000 PLA and 2,000 civilians wounded. Yuan Mu, the spokesman of the State Council, said that about 300 soldiers and civilians died, including 23 students from universities in Beijing, along with a number of people he described as "ruffians".[citation needed] According to Chen Xitong, then Beijing mayor, 200 civilians and several dozen soldiers died.[116][117] Other sources stated that 3,000 civilians and 6,000 soldiers were injured.[118]

According to The Washington Post first Beijing bureau chief, Jay Mathews: "A few people may have been killed by random shooting on streets near the square, but all verified eyewitness accounts say that the students who remained in the square when troops arrived were allowed to leave peacefully. Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances."[119] US ambassador James Lilley's account of the massacre notes that US State Department diplomats witnessed Chinese troops opening fire on unarmed people and based on visits to hospitals around Beijing a minimum of hundreds had been killed.[120]

General consensus has emerged that much of the shooting took place outside of the Square; thus a count of deaths within the Square is not reflective of the scale of violence that took place. In addition, the Army reportedly fired on students after they left the Square, especially in the area near the Beijing concert hall.[121]

4,000 to 6,000 civilians killed, but no one really knows – Edward Timperlake.[122]
Over 3,700 killed, excluding disappearance or secret deaths and those denied medical treatment – PLA defector citing a document circulating among officers.[122]
2,600 had officially died by the morning of 4 June (later denied) – Time Magazine.[117] An unnamed Chinese Red Cross official estimated that, in total, 5,000 people were killed and 30,000[clarification needed] injured.[123]
Closer to 1,000 deaths, according to Amnesty International and some of the protest participants, as reported in a Time article.[117] Other statements by Amnesty have characterized the number of deaths as hundreds.[124]
300 to 1,000 according to a Western diplomat that compiled estimates.[114]
400 to 800 plausible according to the New York Times' Nicholas D. Kristof. He developed this estimate using information from hospital staff and doctors, and from "a medical official with links to most hospitals".[114]
180–500 casualties, according to a declassified NSA document which referred to early casualty estimates.[125]
241 dead, including soldiers, and 7,000 wounded, according to the PBS Foundation.[113]
186 named individuals confirmed dead at the end of June 2006 – Professor Ding Zilin of the Tiananmen Mothers. The Tiananmen Mothers' list includes some people whose deaths were not directly at the hands of the army, such as a person who committed suicide after the incident on 4 June.[126]
A USA State Department Briefing, classified top secret, dated the morning of 4 June 1989, reported 180 to 500 deaths.[127]
edit on 23-12-2012 by rockoperawriter because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by Underworlds

Originally posted by khimbar
Wow. No one has said this before in one of the countless other threads about guns.



I'm certain that this has been said before, many times and in many different ways... and that it has almost always reached the same ears (or eyes, as the case may be) over and over again. Still, the same people continue to rant from across the water about how we Americans should conduct our lives, even though their lifestyles and the crime that dictates those lifestyles grow worse and worse with the passing of the days.

As long as our friends from places such as the U.K. continue to hammer us with insistance that we abolish our Second Amendment rights, we should continue to remind them as to their own plight after they gave up their guns.

Maybe... just maybe, one day they will open their eyes and realize that gun crimes cannot be averted by the act of taking guns from the law-abiding people of a nation. Only crime will follow.


Err, I'm from the UK and certainly DO NOT advocate repealing any 2nd Amendment. Most country folk don't either.

The screw-balls and goofy fools that do are usually the vocal minority from the cities.
Lib-tard and left-wing fruitloops have bred out of control there unfortunately.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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It seems Aussies are mad at what was done as wellwww.youtube.com...#!



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by cavtrooper7
 


Great video link. Thanks for sharing. I hadn't seen that one before now.

It really is a sad thing, to see so many people demanding the return of recognition for the same rights that they only recently gave up so easily. Had they stood their ground in the first place, odds are great that they never would have lost their rights.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread911120/pg1#pid15594550]post by Underworlds[/
I totally agree, it's non of our business! You are fighting to keep you're rights, the foundations tha your country was built on. We have plenty of gun crime here as you say, seen it first hand. If they ban guns knife crime will soar. People kill people. Regardless of the weapon!!



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by WatchRider
The screw-balls and goofy fools that do are usually the vocal minority from the cities.
Lib-tard and left-wing fruitloops have bred out of control there unfortunately.


I know what you mean, WatchRider. We've got the same out-of-control cross-breeding problem occurring in areas on our left coast resulting in people with a mindset that literally confuses the rest of our nation. Nobody is really certain what causes this, but some of us suspect it has something to do with the water.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by Underworlds
 


water and corn



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by Signals
 


i saw the same video the other day. don't remember which site though



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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I only have one question, at this point... Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Australia a part of the U.K.?

Just as much as America is!



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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I fully support the american rights for the second amendment.

For me, they can keep killing themselves as much they like as long they don't drag the rest of planet because of that.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by rockoperawriter
 


Okay... I just realized that I am drifting from the primary topic of discussion, which really isn't too cool, so I edited this response to remove my last response. Sorry for the drift, guys. I'll try to remain more focused.
edit on 23-12-2012 by Underworlds because: off topic



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by liverlad
 


well now that you think about it...






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