Originally posted by Logos23
i]reply to post by Underworlds
I understand your frustration's behind making the OP....all this tit for tat between people from the UK and US is getting silly from both end's. You
quite simply cannot compare them......we didn't have much of a gun culture before the handgun ban...and we still don't. And our societies are
totally different. I understand your concern about being able to defend your family by use of firearms if needed.....but here in the UK we don't have
that fear and we don't NEED gun's. It work's for us. I think that's why people from the UK find it so hard to grasp...because we don't live with
the same fear's you do.
The only issue I had with you was as i stated earlier... that you were using the UK as an example of society gone wrong after a ban on
handgun's....which simply isn't true. If you've managed to look at that link i posted I hope at least you have a better idea of fact's. But the
fact is that even lot's of people who live in the UK believe all the spin about the supposed massive increase in violent crime here, so I don't
blame you for entertaining that idea. But that's why it's always best to do your own research. No matter what side of the pond we live on we are fed
crap from the media.
The ban on handguns wasn't a result of trying to reduce gun crime as such or violent crime....it was in direct response to the Dunblane massacre in
96 which involved a full class of 5/6 year old's in school. The ban was a result of a public outcry asking for the ban.....they weren't quite taken
away from us in the way in which it is mostly portrayed.
As for needing protection from criminal's who own gun's illegally...as someone else as pointed out most of the gun crime in the UK is a result of
criminal's v criminal's relating to thing's like gang warfare and trade in illegal drug's etc.
As i mentioned, I don't think a ban on gun's in America will solve your problem... and I don't pretend to know what will. But I do wish that
certain groups in America would stop painting the UK in a bad light very unfairly and in an unsubstantiated way to help further their own argument in
the gun debate.....that is my only real issue!
This poster understands the situation here. The UK built their empire and their entire basic culture at a time in history when guns were NOT the only
means of defense, or conquest, and, factually, were not the BEST means at the time.
America is a huge land, Vast and, at the time of our national beginning, uncivilized in the modern sense. Pioneers who trod this land had multiple
threats to their safety and were mostly alone or in very small groups at first. Self reliance, vigilance and faith were necessary but not enough.
This was at a time when firearms were starting to evolve and their lethality improved dramatically. Possession of and competent use of a firearm were
absolutely essential to survival in those early days. Ergo, the firearm in America is almost a meme or archetype unique to a unique land with unique
issues. What is would never have been without them. This is irrefutable truth and I don't think anyone from either of our distinctly different, yet
related, cultures would deny that.
You also have the "Indian" Wars where the indigenous peoples were virtually eradicated by the white, black and Hispanic invaders. As a descendant
of Native Peoples, I can say that we will never again allow ourselves to be placed in a situation where we are unarmed and can't defend ourselves.
It has happened once and we learned that governments lie and can NOT be trusted.
We can snipe at each other ad infinitum and never agree.
We can compare government structure, style, advantages and disadvantages and never agree.
We can continue to play tit for tat and never agree.
Or we can recognize our similiarities and work together to solve our problems.
The US Constitution was preceded by the Magna Carta and the English "Bill of Rights". All three of these are the magnificent achievement of freedom
loving people who stood up and shouted "ENOUGH". We will tolerate tryanny and oppression no more. These are our covenant with our posterity and
have been paid for with blood.
They matter. We must defend them and honor them.
We are different. We are alike. Recognizing both facts will help us evolve and flourish.
I personally do not categorically deny the wisdom found in the opinions of others simply because they are not American, nor do I accept it as the
definitive panacea which will solve all our issues.
The interjection of opinion is welcome as long as there is an HONEST effort at helping and not just some punk who wants to be a wanker and mouth off.
That applies to either side.
Just sayin, folks. We all believe in freedom. Let us ALL firmly bear that in mind when debating.
Just my 2cents (adjusted for inflation).