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To U.K. Members Suggesting A U.S. Repeal Of The Second Amendment

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posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by pistolerooo
The English don't get it, if you can't defend yourself, YOU ARE PREY! You have been brainwashed into believing that you're doing fine. Your crime rate is higher, Muslims are taking over your country (with your government's help), you economy is in shambles, unemployment is high, your healthcare system is in the toilet, and I can just keep going. AND YOU, criticize the United States, FOR OUR GUN CRIME! If I were you, I would SWIM to America, if i had to, just to be free. You Brits are like a bird in a cage, you're just great and you think your free as the wind until someone lets you out of the cage. Once you leave the cage, only then will you understand,
what freedom is.......Merry Christmas!!!!


Where do I start with this one, oh so easy. Did you get that straight off of Fox News?

Our crime rate is far lower than that of the USA. FACT

The Muslim population in the UK is 5%, hardly a hostile takeover is it. And considering that many of our Commonwealth partners are Muslim countries its hardly no suprise. Unlike you we are not fearful of the Muslims and most of them intergrate into our society well and give important skills like doctors ect.

Our economy is currently unhealthy but it is hardly a shambles especially when compare to the USA, you may have a larger economy but it is in decline, you are going into a double dip recession and your countries Tripple AAA credit rating was stripped a long time ago. Guess what we still have ours and foreign investors still see the UK as a safe bet when lending money.

The UK's unemployment rate is 7.8% when compared with the USA's 7.9%, another ill informed "fact" you have provided us.

Our healthcare system is widely regarded as the best free healthcare system in the world. And it is accesible by all. I called the doctors last week and got an appointment the same day and what was best is I didn't have to pay. I'd rather have the NHS than the corrupt, expensive American Healthcare system.

We are more free than our American friends that is for sure, if we disagree with our government we vote them out. We have a very mature democracy and it works just fine for us.

Have you any more "facts" that I can completly show you up on, this is fun?




posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


if you can vote them out then could you please gain some perspective by voting out the whacky gun laws you have? don't knock before you try it



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
American member John Phoenix suggest the Queen of England step down for her war crimes and crimes against the people of England and allow the people to write their own constitution and create.a true republic where the people can really be free.

Nuff said.

Here's a good one for ya---What about the Queen not lawfully being the queen? Almost like Obummer and the birth cert. Are they both usurpers?

. There was a preliminary argument presented to the court to challenge both the jurisdiction and the sovereignty of Elizabeth Battenberg/Mountbatten, which was based on two distinct points. The first point being she was knowingly, and with malice aforethought, coronated on a fake stone in 1953 and thus has never been lawfully crowned.

There are those who may wish to argue that this point is irrelevant, as Judge Jeffrey Vincent Pegden did at the trial, wrongly thinking the Coronation is just a ceremony because she has been pretending to be the monarch for over 58 years. In actual fact the Coronation is a binding oath and a contract, requiring the monarch's signature.

At the Coronation ceremony, Elizabeth signed a binding contract, before God and the British people, that she would do her utmost to maintain The Laws of God. This she solemnly swore to do, with her hand placed on the Sovereign's Bible, before kissing The Bible and signing the contract. Please note well that in The Law of God, found in the first five books of The Bible, man-made legislation is strictly prohibited.

The very first time that she gave "royal assent" to any piece of man-made legislation, she broke her solemn oath with God and with the British people and she ceased to be the monarch with immediate effect. To date, she has broken her oath thousands and thousands of times, which is a water-proof, iron-clad, undeniable FACT. She is therefore without question not the monarch, but instead is a criminal guilty of high treason among her other numerous crimes.
Might want to look into this.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by pistolerooo
 




The English don't get it,


It's British, not just English.



if you can't defend yourself,


Yes we can, and do.



Your crime rate is higher,


Are you sure?



Muslims are taking over your country (with your government's help),


No they aren't.
Sure, there are issues with creeping Islamification which need addressing but they are a long, long way from 'taking over' - you really need to start thinking for yourself and stop believing all the sensationalism.



you economy is in shambles,


Actually it isn't - whilst it's not in great shape it's certainly no worse then most comparable nations.

I do agree that Cameron is a complete twat and I and many other's have issues with his domestic and social policies but I really fail to see the relevance other than attempting a cheap and particularly crap dig at the UK.



unemployment is high,


No it isn't.
It is true that there are far too many people employed in crap jobs and being paid crap wages, but again, what exactly is the relevance to this thread?



your healthcare system is in the toilet,


The NHS should be the shining light of UK society but successive governments have interfered in it's running and it is currently being run into the ground - but it is still emminently far better than most other nations health care systems, including the US's.
Again, relevance?

Personally I would never dream of telling American's to repeal The Second Amendment - it is a matter for Americans alone.
The vast majority of people here in the UK are quite happy with our gun laws and resent American's constantly rattling on about our lack of a Right To Bear Arms etc.
That is usually followed by the usual 'we saved your asses' and other assorted bollocks.

And I'm certainly Americans feel the same about non-US members commenting on US issues.

But this is an international discussion site where debate is actively encouraged.
Is it any wonder that it attracts people who have opinon's and seek to express them?

The facts are that attitudes to gun control are one of the major differences in UK and US societies and what is right for one isn't necessarily right for the other.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


healthcare isn't free. how high are the taxes compared to the us?



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


I thought most of your post was well done and amicable which I appreciate but disagreed with you on a few points but don't need mentioning except this one.




The vast majority of people here in the UK are quite happy with our gun laws and resent American's constantly rattling on about our lack of a Right To Bear Arms etc.


I keep hearing Brits say their crime rates are lower and most are happy with thier gun laws but i keep reading stats to the opposite and then see videos like this one that seems to contradict what you say:



www.youtube.com...



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by Bildo
 


Exactly what has Liz got to do with US or UK gun control laws?

Personally I find the Royal Family a quaint reminder of UK culture and heritage - if I ever thought that any of them sought to unduly influence government policy I would actively seek to ensure that they met the same fate as some of their predecessors - many of my countrymen agree with me.

It seems to me that many Americans have an obsession with our Royal Family that borders on the unhealthy.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by rockoperawriter
reply to post by Freeborn
 


healthcare isn't free. how high are the taxes compared to the us?


Exactly! But those that think it is only see the surface of most issues such as this. They are mostly blind to these "little details".



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by rockoperawriter
 


Healthcare is free because it is provided by the state and is accesible by all, even those that have no money, no job and have never paid a penny in income tax in their life. It isn't a difficult concept to comprehend.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


I could find you a video of a Brit advocating sex with sheep if I wanted too, doesn't mean thats what us Brits think. We have our fair share of idiots too, just like every other society, excewpt the idiots here tend to be outnumbered by those with sense.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


so when paid are they higher, lower than us?



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by rockoperawriter
 


Healthcare is free because it is provided by the state and is accesible by all, even those that have no money, no job and have never paid a penny in income tax in their life. It isn't a difficult concept to comprehend.


And the state gets the money it uses to provide the health care from taxing (stealing it) those who do work and have jobs. So no it's not free someone has to pay for it (be shaken down) and they have to pay more because others do not. Its not a hard concept to comprehend and it is simply amazing some cannot seem to grasp it.

edit on 24-12-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by rockoperawriter
 


The two taxation systems are totally incomparable as they are both very different from each other. Besides it has absolutely no relevance to the argument. Our taxes are in places to fund the requirement of what our people wish to have available from them from the state. We vote each government in off what policy suits us best. We probably pay higher taxes than US citizens, but we do not have Ghettos that are like 3rd world countries, we have healthcare available to all and we never let a child go hungry. That is the choice we have made as citizens and we are prepared to accept as a collective that tax burden that goes along with it. We care about the vulnerable in our socity, not like Americans that just let them rot and force them into a life of crime just to get enough to eat.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by hawkiye
 


I could find you a video of a Brit advocating sex with sheep if I wanted too, doesn't mean thats what us Brits think. We have our fair share of idiots too, just like every other society, excewpt the idiots here tend to be outnumbered by those with sense.


That's not one Brit that is a whole lot of Brits demonstrating and that is representative of a hole lot more that can be found. But then again I don't expect you to acknowledge simple reason and logic that destroys your agenda.I do expect ridiculous red herring comments like the above though.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


When you pay for a service, you generally offer a mthod of payment. What do you not understand about there being no method of payment, taxation is not a service charge. Children do not pay tax, yet healthcare is available to them, soes that not make it free? Healthcare is available free of charge to the unemployed who do not pay taxes. Are you seriously that stupid that you cannot grasp the difference between having to get private health insurance and paying taxes. Guess what you have to pay for your health insurance and you still have to pay taxes.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Logos23
i]reply to post by Underworlds
 


I understand your frustration's behind making the OP....all this tit for tat between people from the UK and US is getting silly from both end's. You quite simply cannot compare them......we didn't have much of a gun culture before the handgun ban...and we still don't. And our societies are totally different. I understand your concern about being able to defend your family by use of firearms if needed.....but here in the UK we don't have that fear and we don't NEED gun's. It work's for us. I think that's why people from the UK find it so hard to grasp...because we don't live with the same fear's you do.

The only issue I had with you was as i stated earlier... that you were using the UK as an example of society gone wrong after a ban on handgun's....which simply isn't true. If you've managed to look at that link i posted I hope at least you have a better idea of fact's. But the fact is that even lot's of people who live in the UK believe all the spin about the supposed massive increase in violent crime here, so I don't blame you for entertaining that idea. But that's why it's always best to do your own research. No matter what side of the pond we live on we are fed crap from the media.

The ban on handguns wasn't a result of trying to reduce gun crime as such or violent crime....it was in direct response to the Dunblane massacre in 96 which involved a full class of 5/6 year old's in school. The ban was a result of a public outcry asking for the ban.....they weren't quite taken away from us in the way in which it is mostly portrayed.

As for needing protection from criminal's who own gun's illegally...as someone else as pointed out most of the gun crime in the UK is a result of criminal's v criminal's relating to thing's like gang warfare and trade in illegal drug's etc.

As i mentioned, I don't think a ban on gun's in America will solve your problem... and I don't pretend to know what will. But I do wish that certain groups in America would stop painting the UK in a bad light very unfairly and in an unsubstantiated way to help further their own argument in the gun debate.....that is my only real issue!

This poster understands the situation here. The UK built their empire and their entire basic culture at a time in history when guns were NOT the only means of defense, or conquest, and, factually, were not the BEST means at the time.
America is a huge land, Vast and, at the time of our national beginning, uncivilized in the modern sense. Pioneers who trod this land had multiple threats to their safety and were mostly alone or in very small groups at first. Self reliance, vigilance and faith were necessary but not enough. This was at a time when firearms were starting to evolve and their lethality improved dramatically. Possession of and competent use of a firearm were absolutely essential to survival in those early days. Ergo, the firearm in America is almost a meme or archetype unique to a unique land with unique issues. What is would never have been without them. This is irrefutable truth and I don't think anyone from either of our distinctly different, yet related, cultures would deny that.
You also have the "Indian" Wars where the indigenous peoples were virtually eradicated by the white, black and Hispanic invaders. As a descendant of Native Peoples, I can say that we will never again allow ourselves to be placed in a situation where we are unarmed and can't defend ourselves. It has happened once and we learned that governments lie and can NOT be trusted.
We can snipe at each other ad infinitum and never agree.
We can compare government structure, style, advantages and disadvantages and never agree.
We can continue to play tit for tat and never agree.
Or we can recognize our similiarities and work together to solve our problems.
The US Constitution was preceded by the Magna Carta and the English "Bill of Rights". All three of these are the magnificent achievement of freedom loving people who stood up and shouted "ENOUGH". We will tolerate tryanny and oppression no more. These are our covenant with our posterity and have been paid for with blood.
They matter. We must defend them and honor them.
We are different. We are alike. Recognizing both facts will help us evolve and flourish.
I personally do not categorically deny the wisdom found in the opinions of others simply because they are not American, nor do I accept it as the definitive panacea which will solve all our issues.
The interjection of opinion is welcome as long as there is an HONEST effort at helping and not just some punk who wants to be a wanker and mouth off. That applies to either side.
Just sayin, folks. We all believe in freedom. Let us ALL firmly bear that in mind when debating.
Just my 2cents (adjusted for inflation).



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by hawkiye
 


I could find you a video of a Brit advocating sex with sheep if I wanted too, doesn't mean thats what us Brits think. We have our fair share of idiots too, just like every other society, excewpt the idiots here tend to be outnumbered by those with sense.


That's not one Brit that is a whole lot of Brits demonstrating and that is representative of a hole lot more that can be found. But then again I don't expect you to acknowledge simple reason and logic that destroys your agenda.I do expect ridiculous red herring comments like the above though.


That is the fox hunting alliance, you can find countless videos of those demonstarting. Again that does not prove that the British public want guns legalised, in fact the Fox Hunting Alliance is a tiny group in socity and is limited mostly to the wealthy. If we wanted guns legalised, we would have voted for a government that would promise to do that. But we don't.



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 





but we do not have Ghettos that are like 3rd world countries


I think your fellow Brits would disagree with you:



www.youtube.com...



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


Are people still trying to pass this video off as representative of the UK majority?

It was filmed at a Countryside Alliance march where some people were protesting about the fox hunting ban.
Fox hunting consisted of a group of toffs racing around the countryside on horses whilst dressed in a ridiculous red or black oufit.
Along with the riders would be a large pack of hunting dogs.
They would chase foxes around the countryside, prolonging the fox's ordeal for as long as possible, before the pack of dogs ripped the fox to pieces whilst the toffs sat around cheering etc.

This 'sport' has now been banned - much in accordance with the will of the vast majority of UK citizens.

If it is determined that fox's are causing problems in rural area's then they may be culled using legally owned guns.

The video is heavily editted to give the impression that there is much support for loosening the restrictions on gun ownership here in the UK, the reality is very different.

Gun ownership is embedded in the American psyche in a way that many of us here in the UK can not understand.
Imposing and enforcing any repeal of The Second Amendment is impractical and probably impossible - there are that many guns in circulation that legally prohibiting their ownership would indeed give criminals the upper hand.
But it is so different here, there are so few guns in circulation - and we want to keep it that way.

But can the US continue to do nothing about these spree killings?

And for the record; I certainly don't suggest that I have the answers - but surely something has to be done?
edit on 24/12/12 by Freeborn because: grammar and clarity



posted on Dec, 24 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 




No they do not. Do you want me to start posting youtube videos of Americans wanting guns banned and then try to tell you that is what most Americans want because I have found some youtube clips that support my opinion. Stop being so childish.





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