Originally posted by HKoT

If there were no "time" then the universe would not function, because the incriments would be infinitely small and therefore the data would equal zero because 1/infinity is...zero.

no... it's closest you can get to zero w/out being zero.

if 1/infinity were zero that would mean infinity = 0

Originally posted by KKing123
Time doesn't exist and neither do we, we are all just products of our perceptions, talk to a serious physicist

serious physicists don't exist

no... it's closest you can get to zero w/out being zero.

if 1/infinity were zero that would mean infinity = 0 - quango

True, But what mathematics would we need to solve the time delema, Its Mathematics we don't poses yet, or maybe we do, its just that their to advance to let into civilian hands.

If anybody else sees this post, I was wondering if any of you have a degree in AstroPhysiology

Originally posted by quango

Originally posted by KKing123
Time doesn't exist and neither do we, we are all just products of our perceptions, talk to a serious physicist

serious physicists don't exist

lololol, that was a very cleaver joke!!

its just a deep subject... if time really exsists, it could be the secret of traveling forever, and living forever.. if you could manipulate time i think it would be quite possible to live forever..

anybody who could live forever could become god in a sence, they have the ability to learn crazy amounts of information, they would probably learn how to create solar systems in space and everything...

could we have created ourselves..?

what about the idea that humans learn how to time travel, but realise that they created themselves, and they have to go back and create the solar system and create humans for themselves to exsist...

it all mashes yourhead up when you think about the possibilty of time travel..

i dont think many films have explained it very well...bill and teds excellent adventure is possiblly one of the best..

there is a part where they need to get into a locked door but they dont have a key so they think about, getting the key after they have unlocked the door, but whilst still in thier time, and behold the key apears because they created a future event of putting the key there..

which suggest that they dont fail in putting the key there, because if they did it wouldnt be there...

its like the idea of going back in time and killing your grandad before your mother was born, then you wouldnt exsist so you wouldnt be able to go back and kill your grandad therefore killing your mother before she was born... which means you were born so you could go back and kill your grandad..

this is were i feel the film terminator 2 is a bit dodgy, because if the terminator killed john conner, they wouldnt need to send one back to kill him in the war, and if they didnt send one back to kill him.. he would exsist so they would need to send a robot back to kill him..

of course this all applys to single dimensional time type situations,

maybe when an event happens in this dimension it changes everything in another..

maybe this is what pyshics see, they see events happening in another dimension which could happen here... but they dont allways nessisary do...

it is a very deep subject and i dont know the answer to any of it it is all speculation based on phillosophy...

I have no education in this field so bear with me.
This is just what I can figure out from where I'm sitting.

Time exists in some form, but 1:00am and 1904AD these types of things are created by Man to order life.

I think time has to do with keeping every single event individual. The whole 'lightning never strikes twice" thing.
And I think it has a lot to do with motion. The whole universe is moving so plotting where something occurs in space is a way to show time.
IOW
Even though the earth is in the same position relative to the sun every May 7th, it's not in the same place in space because the sun (and the earth w/ it) are slowly moving around galatic center. So every May7th is different - hence, even if we didn't label years as numbers, You could determine what May7th a particular event happened on, if you had the ability to map the earth-around-the-sun, the sun-around-galatic-center, the galaxy-in-relation-to-whatever and so on infinitely.

Clearly "years" don't exist universally since we just use the earth around the sun to classify.
If there was some universal definition of time it would have to be based on a universe-wide, measureable phenomenon.

Basically, I'm saying Time is the relative positions of different masses to each other in Space.

But actually I have no idea.

From where youre sitting it seems you have a firm grasp on things. I don't believe a scholar could have put it any simpler.

I don't know alot of this stuff so correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.
A Light Year = the distance light travels in one earth-year correct? Whatever that distance is (i'm not looking it up). It doesn't matter.

Ok... I'm just going to use random numbers here to illustrate my point:

Say we send a ship at whatever speed we can manage out this year (2003 earth time). Over the course of 2000 years and several generations (on board the ship) the ship arrives at Planet A. So in 4003 the ship is at planet A.
Meanwhile on earth, time is also passing, technology is improving, and in the year 4000, the technology exists to reach Planet A in just 3 years. A second ship is sent off and reaches planet A at the same time as the first ship.
So in 2003, the trip takes 2000 years and in 4000 the trip only takes 3 years.
Instead of thinking of the technology as being faster - think of Mankind itself as being faster. We can now cover a fixed distance in a much shorter time.

Here's the thing: What happens if Mankind were to travel in a ship at 'light speed'. Would we become light or only appear as light to observers. Wouldn't we still be men in a ship travelling at super high speed?
Could we not one day travel to and from the stars at a speed so great that it be like a trip from London to New York? No going off to space and coming back, generations after your family and friends have died...

Technology and the speed of Mankind go hand in hand. Just like how throughout history, mankind has been able to cover the same distance (NY to London) faster and faster based on whatever technology was available at the time... will this speeding up of the species continue to slowly occur?

Or maybe life extension technology will coincide with this improvement.. IOW, if we one day have life expectancies of 800 years, what's a couple months spent in a spaceship.. and further on down the road when we live for 5000 years, etc. etc.

Maybe as we increase longevity of life, it won't matter if there is some speed threshold we can't break. Becuase even if you're gone on a 300 year space mission, you're friends and family on Earth(or wherever) will still be alive. And it's not like communications technology wouldn't improve so that you could stay in contact nearly simultaneously across galaxies.

is UP really missing? kidnapped by aliens for real hehehe....are you serious hes actually missing? lol or not?

Seriously, time is the creation of the human psyche. It is ours to mold to whatever shape we want it at. We constantly mold time unconciously, where do you think the phrase "time flies when you're having fun" comes from. During a long class time crawls by, but when you play your favorite computer game you pass hours in seconds. Once you can learn to control your concept of time (I havent yet) you are one step closer to enlightenment.

One other problem with time is xeno's paradox. For anyone not familiar with it, it states that "If you are travelling from point A to point B, you necessarily must travel half of the distance to point B before travelling all of the distance. Now from that point you must again travel half of the remaining distance. If you continue to do so (travel half of the distance) you will never reach point B." Xeno proposed this using the analogy of a race between a tortoise and a hare, with the hare being A and the tortoise B. It is flawed in that once the hare reaches a certain distance from the tortoise, its steps are greater than half the distance from the tortoise. Time isnt so, say you were reaching for a doorknob, your hand would take a certain period of time to reach that handle. this time would half, and half, and half and keep dividing so, and you would never reach the handle. Therefore we must be traveling through time faster than other things. But this is impossible because time is the same for all.

There is the phrase "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" but it should be "reality is in the eye of the beholder." Because what we see is just our perception of the world. My perception of blue could be different than yours, and the same for all things we see. Are schizophrenics really seeing and hearing things not there or are we just not noticing them. Once you can control your perception, you can do anything.

XAOS

I just realized a problem with my previous argument on time, Einsteins Theory of relativity. We are traveling at different speeds through time. The handle is still, not moving, our hand is quickly moving through time and outpaces the handle before coming to rest on it. Think about it, it is a mindf--k.

XAOS

i think some people are missing the point, our messure of time' and real time are not the same thing....

if real time exsists, it opens all sorts of weird quantum pyshics gateways for mad crazy theorys...

i thought they put an atomic clock on the moon craft apollo 11(???) and it had slowed by about half an hour over the entire journey..

which could suggest that the clock was faulty. or that the faster you go the slower time runs...

so therefore if mass could travel at close to light speed you might only age 1 seccond on the clock in your spaceship, but on the earth 15 minutes might have passed. now if faster than light speed was possible would that suggest that you could then travel back in time???

[Edited on 8-5-2003 by The Blade Runner]

Blade Runner- thats what I put, but I don't think anybody properly read the first post.


If you consider how fast the universe is said to be expanding (think around 100,000mph) how fast our galoxy is spining, then how fast our solar system, also how fast are planet is moving, then how fast we move.

WE are really going really, really, really fast. The answer may not be to go faster, but to go much, much slower. Eventually to stop moving at all.

How do we do this, by going against all that is pushing us to go forward. Improbable, yes. Impossible, no. It might not be possible to go back in time, but their may be a way to stop time.

Who knows, its all theories, like Blade Runner said, " it opens all sorts of weird quantum pyshics gateways for mad crazy theorys... "

xaos - Einsteins Theory of relativity - It has a lot of holes that needs answering too. No longer applies with this Time, Since the theory was based with a specific knowledge of Time made by humans, So it is flawed, In a way.

Time = white light matter itself

Any thoughts

Falcon

Originally posted by falcon


Any thoughts

Not at the moment, after reading this thread and xaos's posts my head hurts just trying to type...I need a brew.

Originally posted by xaos

One other problem with time is xeno's paradox.

I heard this too.. there was a king who was shot dead by an arrow. At the trial, the defense attorney proved that the the murderer didn't actually do it:
After the arrow was shot it reached a halfway point. From the halfway point, to reach the king, it reached another halfway point. and another and another and so on, so the arrow never hit the king and he actually died of fright.
Not only that, but before the arrow left the bow and reached the Halfway point, it had to reach the half way point of that and the halfway point of that and so on. Basically, the arrow never even left the bow.

Thanks xaos for reminding me about that

Originally posted by FoxStriker
Blade Runner- thats what I put, but I don't think anybody properly read the first post.


If you consider how fast the universe is said to be expanding (think around 100,000mph) how fast our galoxy is spining, then how fast our solar system, also how fast are planet is moving, then how fast we move.

WE are really going really, really, really fast. The answer may not be to go faster, but to go much, much slower. Eventually to stop moving at all.

How do we do this, by going against all that is pushing us to go forward. Improbable, yes. Impossible, no. It might not be possible to go back in time, but their may be a way to stop time.

Who knows, its all theories, like Blade Runner said, " it opens all sorts of weird quantum pyshics gateways for mad crazy theorys... "

xaos - Einsteins Theory of relativity - It has a lot of holes that needs answering too. No longer applies with this Time, Since the theory was based with a specific knowledge of Time made by humans, So it is flawed, In a way.

yeah sorry i didnt read it properly i just skim read it sorry man...