Let's put This To Bed. The Five Worst Shootings Ever Were Not Done By Americans

reply to post by DaesDaemar


Okay, so say they allow the weapons you listed for "home defense."

Someone goes into a school and blasts away kids with his shotgun and pistol. Then what? A gun is a gun.

can't even provide basic medical care to its citizens

reply to post by exponent

Sorry, but we have some of the best hospitals and doctors in the world, so you're wrong.

You lag the world in education, in infrastructure, in renewable power, in healthcare, in basically every category people measure.

Yet, we are the supper power of the world, wonder why?
Looking at that list again, I can see it's not so true.
Are you mad at America?
You seem mad, but maybe misinformed.

You are right about one thing "arrogance" yes like every "alpha male" we tend to have arrogance, but not too much.

Originally posted by GunzCoty
Sorry, but we have some of the best hospitals and doctors in the world, so you're wrong.

Really?

37 United States of America

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems.

37th doesn't make you the best in the world. The UK btw is 18th. Best in the world appears to be France.

Yet, we are the supper power of the world, wonder why?

That has nothing to do with your infrastructure but the exploitation of your labour.

You are right about one thing "arrogance" yes like every "alpha male" we tend to have arrogance, but not too much.

Coming from a guy who claims to be the best in the world against obvious evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by DaesDaemar

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
"#3: Martin Bryant, aged 29, captured, Port Arthur, Australia, 28 Apr 1996, 35 killed, 21 wounded.
Martin Bryant reportedly had an obsession with the movie trilogy Child's Play. His killing spree lasted 8 hours. He is currently serving 35 life sentences plus 1,035 years without parole in the psychiatric wing of Risdon Prison in Hobart Australia."

Well I bet he'll be out long before that...

What a stupid sentence...

No, he will die in prison. We don't have the death penalty here, so a sentence like that means he will never again be allowed out. How is that stupid exactly?

You obviously have no "reach"... wow... just wow...

reply to post by ANOK


So now you're having trouble understanding?

we have some of the best hospitals and doctors in the world

That has nothing to do with your infrastructure but the exploitation of your labour.

And I thought it had something to do with intelligence, freedom, will power, technology, unity, and yes hard labor.
Maybe I am wrong.

Coming from a guy who claims to be the best in the world against obvious evidence to the contrary.

Coming from a guy who can't seem to read and is (what word is best?) mad? envious? trolling?

Originally posted by ANOK

37th doesn't make you the best in the world. The UK btw is 18th. Best in the world appears to be France.

The WHO rankings have nothing to do with the quality of doctors at their profession and hospital quality/technology/treatment methods etc. If it did, roughly 70,000 patients (www.medcarelink.com...) would not come to the US for medical care. They're criticized a lot, actually. Read up on their criteria. I'll link this. Come on, really. Do you really think that SINGAPORE really has better healthcare than the UK and US? Let's be real here. The biggest factor is the availability for healthcare for people who may not be able to afford it. Singapore, and France etc may have widely available/easily accessable healthcare but it doesn't mean that the quality is there!

reply to post by paradox


That's why I mentioned responsible users. Surely it's not that hard to amend the laws there using some common sense.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


Perhaps next time you will clearly state what you mean, as text does not come across the same as talking to someone. I await your obvious witty reply...

reply to post by GunzCoty


An American propaganda piece, really? I don't buy into that stuff. I'm from a small country town, I used to go shooting when I was younger. I don't know a single person that whines about our gun laws. The main owners of guns are farmers and hunters, and they have the permits to own them. This looks like typical propaganda, finding those to back your claims and interviewing them.

Originally posted by GunzCoty
And I thought it had something to do with intelligence, freedom, will power, technology, unity, and yes hard labor.
Maybe I am wrong.

That is the myth you are sold. That is the 'American Dream' which hasn't existed for a long time. The US for example both condemns prison labour and enforces it in its own prisons. Your have the highest incarceration rate in the world.

You need to understand more about your country before you feel proud of it. At least Brits and Australians and others who are discussing here are aware of the downfalls of their nation, they're aware of the history of oppression and violence. Americans just want to pretend it doesn't exist.

Originally posted by paradox
The WHO rankings have nothing to do with the quality of doctors at their profession and hospital quality/technology/treatment methods etc. If it did, roughly 70,000 patients (www.medcarelink.com...) would not come to the US for medical care.

The UK also has medical tourism. I don't really see that you're proving much with that.

The biggest factor is the availability for healthcare for people who may not be able to afford it. Singapore, and France etc may have widely available/easily accessable healthcare but it doesn't mean that the quality is there!

edit on 12-23-12 by paradox because: (no reason given)

Actually if you look at the statistics you'll find that both are there. The UK for example is the most efficient health care system in Europe, possibly the world. We pay around 1/3rd of what you do just for medicaid/medicare and in return everyone is covered to an insane level with no charges.

This is why people laugh at Americans, when they believe they are the greatest country in the world, yet British third world relief efforts literally operate in the US to provide dental care to your poorest. In fact they had to employ extra staff to handle the demand.

Please do your research and understand the problems that face you.

Originally posted by GunzCoty
Yet, we are the supper power of the world, wonder why?

Ask supper man, maybe he knows...

Gotta be related to all those Big macs we consume...

reply to post by DaesDaemar


What is a "responsible user?" 95% if not more of legal firearms owners are already responsible.

Originally posted by paradox
reply to post by DaesDaemar

 

What is a "responsible user?"

I would say someone who adequately secures their guns, who stores them unloaded, who ensures others do the same etc.

95% if not more of legal firearms owners are already responsible.

Citation needed. I could just say 95% of them are irresponsible, without evidence how can you convince anyone?

Originally posted by exponent

The UK also has medical tourism. I don't really see that you're proving much with that.

I didn't try to prove we are "the best," just that being ranked 37th is BS. Even the UK being ranked 18th or whatever is BS. We both would be in the top 10 if it was ranked fairly. Easily.

Originally posted by paradox
I didn't try to prove we are "the best," just that being ranked 37th is BS. Even the UK being ranked 18th or whatever is BS. We both would be in the top 10 if it was ranked fairly. Easily.

edit on 12-23-12 by paradox because: (no reason given)

What's 'fair'? I consider that 'access to medical care' should be right up there and the US provides extremely limited access. The very fact you don't have any form of national healthcare for regular folks is a huge black mark against you in the eyes of the rest of the first world.

The quality of care given in the US is pretty good. I don't think anyone would deny that. However, it costs an insane amount for what you get. You also tend to get a lot of useless tests and expenditures that don't help you but do funnel money to the doctors via kickback schemes etc.

This is the biggest problem with US healthcare, that it is inherently corrupt due to being a private capitalist system. Even if we ignored healthcare though, you lag the world in education, in social inequality, your national infrastructure was recently rated a D- with something like 30% of your bridges in serious danger.

The list goes on and on and on. The honest perspective is that every country has its problems, but I only see Americans in this thread denying they exist.

reply to post by paradox


This is where our definitions will differ, but that's ok. I would say someone that keeps them locked in separate areas, has a minimal amount and has attended training programs on gun use.

Originally posted by exponent

I would say someone who adequately secures their guns, who stores them unloaded, who ensures others do the same etc.

Yeah, and how are you going to regulate that? That is the point I am getting at.

Citation needed. I could just say 95% of them are irresponsible, without evidence how can you convince anyone?

It was only an estimate. I'm too tired to do the research right now, but I remember reading somewhere, I think from the NRA, that there's roughly 300 million legally registered firearms in the US. And I also read a study from the late 90's that said 80% of prisoners got their firearms illegally whether it be stolen, on the street, etc and something like 11% got them from a store legally. I guess that ties in with "responsible gun owners," because registered firearms were used regardless, but again, how will that be accounted for? I read somewhere else where something close to 2.5-3 million crimes are stopped legally by citizens with firearms per year. The bad always comes with the good no matter what, but I would still say the overwhelming majority of firearms owners are responsible based on how many registered firearms there are and how many violent gun crimes there are per year, in addition to how many crimes are legally stopped. I will do my best to find these sources for you if I remember tomorrow. Feel free to remind me. It's 4 AM right now so I should probably get going

Originally posted by paradox
Yeah, and how are you going to regulate that? That is the point I am getting at.

We regulate it the same way as anything else is regulated. If your firearm gets stolen because you secured it insufficiently then how about we make you responsible for anything that is done with it? That's a little extreme, but my point is there are plenty of ways to mandate secure storage. You can't even buy a firearm in the UK without having your storage, background and mental health assessed.

I will do my best to find these sources for you if I remember tomorrow. Feel free to remind me. It's 4 AM right now so I should probably get going

That's fair enough, and I don't want to immediately demand that you're wrong or anything like that. It's just that I live in the UK, a land with virtually no legal firearms, and I remember when the Dunblane massacre occurred and what people felt after it. I shot pistols at that period and it annoyed a lot of people when they were banned.

Fifteen or so years later and we look at the US and shake our heads. As a nation we don't want guns, and the most critical fact I know of is that our police refuse to be armed with regularity. Only around 1/10 is armed and most say they'd quit before being forced to carry a gun.

The possession of such a weapon changes the nature of person to person interaction. If you have a gun strapped to your hip and say something outrageously racist am I going to confront you on it? No. If you were not armed I would. The person with the gun sees it as a defence, but in reality it's power that is being exercised over other people. It's not something that any of us really want to have to deal with.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


British boy killed in Connecticut school shootings

When British citizens are killed in your schools by nutjobs with guns then I think we have every right to an opinion on gun control.

How many UK Citizens have been killed/murdered while living or on holiday in the USA due to idiots with easy access to guns compared to how many US citizens have been killed/murdered while living or on holiday in the UK due to idiots with easy access to guns. I think if the tables were turned you would have an opinion too.


Disarm your criminals.
Get secure gun safes/vaults.
Ban concealable weapons.
Ban semi automatic rifles and rifles that look like M16s/M4s and other military style weapons.

Its harder to mass kill with just a double barrel shotgun but you can protect your property just the same.
let your Law Enforcement deal with the gun psycho like we do here. Don't be a hero.

In the event of a psychopath running round with a gun shooting indiscriminately at random people in shopping malls would you really pull you're own gun and start firing off rounds at the shooter? I think there is great possibility YOU would be shot at by the LEO's as a possible suspect psychopath with a gun indiscriminately shooting at random people in a shopping mall.

British people don't feel safe on your turf any more due to the amount of guns over there. Travel agents have leaflets here in the UK on how to act and stay safe in the USA due to your gun laws, like how not to walk up to people in cars to ask for directions as you could get shot for car jacking.

But seen as I do not live in the US then what I say means jack to you guys, but I think were allowed to have opinions on your gun laws when it involves the murder of British children and tourists.