First a quick little note, I accidentally posted this thread yesterday morning. While editing it, I hit the wrong button
Immediately within a minute I was attacked by, trolls and Spelling Nazis who were so stupid to see that it wasn't finished yet.
I won't feed the trolls, but for the Spelling Nazis, I have a mild form of dyslexia, that is more evident when I rush to write or read something.
Now on to the thread.
Note I used Wikipedia for most of my sources, just because it's faster and has all footnotes, citations and such.
With the tragic shootings in Newtown Ct, Aurora Co, and else where in the U.S.,some of our government leaders, and many citizens, are calling for a
Gun Ban and dare I say making all guns illegal to own. They site these recent shootings and those in the past as the reason why, or that in doing so
we can control gun violence and crimes
You can say what ever you want, but the simple fact of the matter, is that the government has to disarm the people before they can impose more
draconian measures on the populace. And stopping gun violence or crime is just the vehicle that is being used to do so.
The second amendment is for the people's right to stand against the federal government when civil discourse doesn't prevail.
This is evident in many of the writing of the framers and delegates during the drafting of the Constitution.
See these two quotes from the wiki”Second
Amendment to the United States Constitution
There was an ongoing debate in the 1780s about "the people" fighting governmental tyranny (as described by Anti-Federalists); or the risk of mob rule
of "the people" (as described by the Federalists) related to the ongoing revolution in France. A widespread fear, during the debates on the
ratification of the Constitution, was the possibility of a military takeover of the states by the federal government, which could happen if the
Congress passed laws prohibiting states from arming citizens, or prohibiting citizens from arming themselves. Though it has been argued that
the states lost the power to arm their citizens when the power to arm the militia was transferred from the states to the federal government by Article
1, Section 8 of the US Constitution, the individual right to arm was retained and strengthened by the Militia Act of 1792 and the similar act of
Some scholars have said that it is wrong to read a right of armed insurrection in the Second Amendment because clearly the founding fathers sought to
place trust in the power of the ordered liberty of democratic government versus the anarchy of insurrectionists. Other scholars, such as Glenn
Reynolds, contend that the framers did believe in an individual right to armed insurrection. The latter scholars cite examples, such as the
Declaration of Independence (describing in 1776 "the Right of the People to...institute new Government") and the New Hampshire Constitution (stating
in 1784 that "nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of
Many federalist believed there was no need for a bill of rights in the Constitution Stating there were to many armed citizens that would stand up
against the federal government. Federalist claimed that adding a numbered Bill of Rights,might cause rights that weren't listed not to be protected.
Anti – Federalist believed, that the federal government would disarm the militias and then seize power over the states and use the army against
them. Anti-Federalist insisted that a numbered bill of rights be added to the Constitution, limiting the scope of power the federal government had.
Federalist soon became aware that there was not enough support from the Anti-federalist to ratify the Constitution, agreed to amend to it. This
convinced enough of the Anti- Federalist to vote for ratification of the Constitution.
here are some quotes from the founding fathers.
Alexander Hamilton (January 11, 1755 or 1757 – July 12, 1804) was a Founding Father,
soldier, economist, political philosopher, one of America's first constitutional lawyers and the first United States Secretary of the
James Madison, Jr. (March 16, 1751 (O.S. March 5) – June 28, 1836) was an American statesman and
political theorist, the fourth President of the United States (1809–1817). He is hailed as the “Father of the Constitution
If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude[,] that army can never be formidable to the liberties of
the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend
their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens.
wrote in the federalist papers, Federalist No. 46.
George Mason IV (December 11, 1725 – October 7, 1792) Father of the United States Bill of
Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it
would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to
which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of
souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than
twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands,
officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their
affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular
When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of
Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken
them, and let them sink gradually. . . . At Virginia's U.S. Constitution ratification convention (June 14, 1788), reported in Elliot, Debates of the
Several State Conventions 3:380. Virginia's U.S. Constitution ratification convention (June 16, 1788), reported in Elliot, Debates of the Several
State Conventions 3:425. That the People have a right to keep and bear Arms; that a well regulated Militia, composed of the Body of the People,
trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe Defense of a free state. Within Mason's declaration of "the essential and unalienable Rights of the
People", later adopted by the Virginia ratification convention (1788).
Continued in next post.
edit on 22-12-2012 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)