Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Oath Keepers Stewart Rhodes Pledges to Resist Any Assault Weapons Ban - Hundreds Agree...

page: 5
22
<< 2  3  4    6 >>

log in

join

posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 11:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by Nucleardiver

Originally posted by DaTroof
So they take an oath to defend the Constitution, but cry when there is public support for Constitutionally repealing an amendment?

They don't really understand what the Constitution is, do they?


As an active member of Oathkeepers I take offense to your comment. No one in the Oathkeepers organization is "crying" about anything, we are simply honoring our oaths. Furthermore I have absolutely no friggin idea where you are getting your information but I have seen no mention of anything any remotely suggesting that there is "public support for constitutionally repelling the second amendment".

You are obviously very confused concerning the workings of our Constitution and the process to constitutionally repeal an amendment. First of all Congress and the executive branch pushing for gun control legislation is a very, very long way from a Constitutional repealing of the second amendment. In order for it to be a Constitutional repeal of the second amendment it would take a Constitutional Convention with a super majority vote of the states, not to mention the fact that the whole point of the Bill of Rights is to have a set of protected amendments that cannot be repealed. Would you care to inform me where we have had a call for a Constitutional Convention?

A mear call for tighter gun control legislation by a small majority of the citizens of this great nation does not constitute public support of a repeal of the 2nd.

Perhaps before you go insulting the men and women that have fought and died to secure your right to act like an @$$ you should get your facts straight concerning what it is you are discussing. All of us at Oathkeepers took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic and when we have duly elected representatives that are oath bound to defend and secure the Constitution and the rights of the people trying to pass legislation that directly violates the rights of the people then we will voice our opinions for all to hear.

The mear fact that our Congress and president is trying to infringe upon our God given and constitutionally secured right to bear arms is the pure definition of tyranny and as unconstitutional as it can get. The USSC ruled in Miranda v Arizona in 1964 that the exercising of a constitutionally protected right cannot be criminalize or infringed in any way what so ever. The ruling of the USSC has been repeatedly upheld in both federal and state courts and therefore any attempt by the government to infringe or criminalize by limitation the 2nd amendment will be an unconstitutional actbper Miranda v Arizona.

We are not crying because there is overwhelming public support for a repealing of the second amendment. We are pi$$ed because unlike the trash we have in DC, we take our oaths to heart and honor them everyday.
edit on 24-12-2012 by Nucleardiver because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-12-2012 by Nucleardiver because: (no reason given)


Very well said Sir...Salute! It seems there are many who take the oath as a formality to getting the job.... or do not understand the "OATH" they swear to.... that words have meaning to people with honor.
edit on 25-12-2012 by 727Sky because: period




posted on Dec, 25 2012 @ 10:10 PM
link   
reply to post by hawkiye
 


So much for these Oath Keeper guys being patriots. Obviously, they aren't American patriots since they are preparing for war against America over their belief that the Constitution protects their right to (in their own words) prepare for war against America. This whole weird period of time is starting to remind me of that 1984 book, only the newspeak isn't coming from the government. It's coming from the corporate henchmen and their rightwing media bullhorns.

This won't end well. If these paramilitary folks think that they'll successfully launch a revolution, or even a crippling insurgency, within this society, then they're in for a really horrible surprise - them, and the people that they profess to love. If they think that their faith and devotion to this ideological stand will protect them and their families from complete hell-on-earth if they actually put their hardware where their mouths are, they're completely delusional. Signing a pledge and destroying your family's future over something like an assault rifle ban are (I really hope) two very different commitments for the men who signed this pledge. If not, then they don't deserve to have families or loved ones, or positions of responsibility within a functional society.

Destroying your country - turning on your country as a violent traitor - over the number of bullets you get to have in a clip, or the number of rounds per second you can squeeze off, is nothing more than proof of just how much of a liar and a fraud you were when you swore allegiance to your country in the first place. If you're serious about opening up on the rest of us if we vote - as the majority of citizens within the country you say you love - to limit your gun magazine, then you are our nation's enemy, and you should be treated as a cancer growing within our borders.

We won't simply sit back and allow you to destroy our nation with your paranoia. Don't imagine that for a moment. You don't - and won't - see us "locking and loading" but we don't need guns to remove the future from you and the people you love. And you can't stop us from shutting down your future and the future of everyone you love with all the guns you own. We own everything that you need to ensure that your sons and daughters have a reason to care about the lives that lay before them. Ruin our nation with this insanity, and you may as well write off everything that matters to you and yours. You can win all the battles, but lose the war. That's good to always keep in mind.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 01:15 AM
link   
reply to post by NorEaster
 


They are not turning on their country they are protecting it from domestic enemies. These guys are veterans and retired and active duty military and police etc.

I have never read a more ignorant post then yours.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 01:23 AM
link   
reply to post by hawkiye
 


What people don't get is that Oath Keepers won't "obey" a person in government. They (the detractors) see an adherence to the Constitution as an assault on those who actively try to subvert it at any given oppourtunity.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 01:30 AM
link   

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by DaTroof
So they take an oath to defend the Constitution, but cry when there is public support for Constitutionally repealing an amendment?

They don't really understand what the Constitution is, do they?


Actually it is YOU who does not understand the constitution. The first 10 amendments CAN NOT be repealed. That is why they are the bill of rights... that is why they are UNALIENABLE. What you fail to realize is that the Bill of Rights exists whether or not it is on paper. "We hold these truths to be self evident" means exactly that. The founders felt it necessary to write them down, even though they are indeed self evident, just in case a bunch of morons came along and didn't get this very easy to understand concept.


The phrase "We hold these truths to be self evident...." actually comes out of The Declaration of Independence not the US Constitution. Re the Bill of Rights...they are a list of individual rights that were written into the Constitution after the fact but nonetheless represent "Amendments" (first ten) and as such they can technically be repealed.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 01:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by DaTroof
So they take an oath to defend the Constitution, but cry when there is public support for Constitutionally repealing an amendment?

They don't really understand what the Constitution is, do they?


Actually it is YOU who does not understand the constitution. The first 10 amendments CAN NOT be repealed. That is why they are the bill of rights... that is why they are UNALIENABLE. What you fail to realize is that the Bill of Rights exists whether or not it is on paper. "We hold these truths to be self evident" means exactly that. The founders felt it necessary to write them down, even though they are indeed self evident, just in case a bunch of morons came along and didn't get this very easy to understand concept.


The phrase "We hold these truths to be self evident...." actually comes out of The Declaration of Independence not the US Constitution. Re the Bill of Rights...they are a list of individual rights that were written into the Constitution after the fact but nonetheless represent "Amendments" (first ten) and as such they can technically be repealed.


No they cannot be repealed because they are not privileges granted by the constitution they are simply an illustration of natural rights warning government not to mess with them period. They do not have any authority to repeal natural rights!



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 02:02 AM
link   
reply to post by NorEaster
 


We own everything that you need to ensure that your sons and daughters have a reason to care about the lives that lay before them. Ruin our nation with this insanity, and you may as well write off everything that matters to you and yours.
good advice for all commies who support your nonsense.
America belongs to the Americans who are willing to fight for her ... thankfully, that won't be you or any other who share your sentiments.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 02:08 AM
link   
reply to post by CosmicCitizen
 


they are a list of individual rights that were written into the Constitution after the fact but nonetheless represent "Amendments" (first ten) and as such they can technically be repealed.
boy'o'boy are you confused ... please, study it again.

rights are NOT granted ... they are protected/guaranteed/self-evident/unalienable and until you understand each of those words, you cannot understand the document itself or the theory behind its creation.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 06:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by NorEaster
 


They are not turning on their country they are protecting it from domestic enemies. These guys are veterans and retired and active duty military and police etc.

I have never read a more ignorant post then yours.



If they turn on the rest of us over an assault rifle ban or a limit on the size of ammo magazines, then THEY are the domestic enemies. Maybe you can't understand that America - these United States - isn't a fantasy ideal in your head, but is the collective of human beings that are American citizens, but that doesn't change the fact that this is what America is. It's alive and dynamic and growing from year to year in spite of the confused rhetoric that claims that it stopped being alive and dynamic and growing as soon as a room full of guys signed their names to a legal agreement concerning how they wanted to basically, and initially, frame the government.

The Constitution is not a dead document either. It was never meant to be a dead document. Hell, the Bill of Rights was an add-on change, as was the 2nd Amendment. Seriously, what do you think the word "amendment" means? It means a change in what the Constitution was to make it more applicable to the society of people who live under its guiding principles. What the hell gives any of you the authority to take up arms against this nation over your refusal to allow the majority of this nation's people to interpret their own constitution as they see fit, and have legally determined to interpret that constitution? And what makes you think that any of you will be anything but common domestic terrorists if you do take up arms against us?

What would be the difference between any one of you and Tim McVeigh in that situation? Body count?

If you love your assault rifles and 100 round bullet drums more than your country, then please do us and yourselves a favor and leave. We don't want to take your lives away from you. We don't want to take your futures and your families' futures away from you. That said, if it comes down to a choice between the handful of you and the 350 million of us, then....well, c'mon, do I have to say it?

I'm a veteran. 8 years of service. I love my country, and you guys aren't going to ruin what we worked so hard to build here. You can try, but others have tried before you. Find something else to get stirred up over. Like shutting off the money spigot that trickles from Wall St. into Congress and then gushes from our Treasury right back to those sick vultures. You don't even know who you're working for anymore, and while that's sad and tragic, it won't stop us from doing what will be necessary to you and yours if you don't smarten up and get a grip on your passions in this specific situation.

In war, the soldiers on both sides are honorable men. Still, one side is required to destroy the lives of those on the other side, or have their own lives destroyed. Wake up to the manipulation and take a break from all of this. You should know by now that nothing is ever a "runaway train" when it comes to Congress. Hell, we can't even get a highways and bridges Jobs bill passed through the House, and there's no actual downside or controversy whatsoever associated with that legislation. This crap is just adolescent preening and we all know it. Still, Jarad Loughner spent time on this board before taking his point of view and gunning down a House Rep and 6 innocent people.

Words matter, and none of us really knows the true impact of our words on those who read them in silence. For every poster in this thread, there are potentially hundreds of lurkers reading everything that you and I post. And neither of us knows the impact on each of them that we're having. You say that taking up arms against the United States, over modifications to the minute specifics of the 2nd Amendment's interpretation is an honorable and patriotic decision, and I say that anyone who does take up arms against their own nation is inherently a traitor, and subject to being treated as a traitor. You say that an armed insurrection - if an assault rifle ban is passed in Congress and signed by the President into law - is a patriotic response to that law, and I say that such a response is literal treason against the United States of America. Which set of statements do you think carry the most potential for harm against a weak or confused mind that is reading both sets of statements?

If you can't, or won't, even try to figure that immensely important question out, then I have nothing more to add to this exchange. I, for one, am getting sick of the extreme rhetoric being followed by extreme violence that's been the case over the last year or so. Nothing exists in an vacuum. Especially mass violence.
edit on 12/26/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 07:19 AM
link   
reply to post by NorEaster
 


Typical liberal logic at work, so lets break it down for you:

You imply that any revolution against the government is wrong but later on talk about manipulation of that very government. I guess everything is peachy when you agree with that manipulated government. You are also assume that the overwhelming majority are for a assault rifle ban.

You talk about people who are reading this thread, and many like it becoming destabilized and doing something rash. Well, perhaps - but in all honestly they could snap from anything, there is no protecting us from that.

But the scariest thing I get from your post is your willingness to "get rid of people with a certain mindset" (or try to imply that anyone who disagrees is a domestic terrorist)



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 07:21 AM
link   
reply to post by hawkiye
 

I agree that they are natural rights and theoretically inalienable but under the color of law tptb will likely try to ''amend'' certain amendments but it would require a Constitutional Convention to pull it off. Heck our President doesnt even have a valid birth certificate.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 07:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by NorEaster
 


We own everything that you need to ensure that your sons and daughters have a reason to care about the lives that lay before them. Ruin our nation with this insanity, and you may as well write off everything that matters to you and yours.
good advice for all commies who support your nonsense.
America belongs to the Americans who are willing to fight for her ... thankfully, that won't be you or any other who share your sentiments.


I guess you'll just have to try us then, won't you. One thing's for sure, we won't call a press briefing when we decide that we've had enough of this crap. And we won't fight you on your home turf, with your choice of weapon. We don't live inside a delusional hero-villain video game world. We'll just take away your ability to do the little things - like buy anything.

Did you know that you IP address can be used to shut down your entire modern existence? And that of your family, as well? You'd be surprised at what corporate marketers have created for themselves via the Internet, and how easily it is leveraged against you. And you'd never even know it was happening until you went to the ATM or tried to use your debit or credit card. Or cash a check anywhere - even one of those sleazy CASHLAND places that they have next to tattoo parlors and pawn shops.

I know that you're just an angry white guy who is pissed at how his life is turning out, and that you're just trying to find something to believe in again, but try doing something nice for a veteran who's down on his luck today instead of pouring gasoline on a treasonous insurgency that's trying to get something lit and burning here. Commies tried to take our nation down in the 30s, and Roosevelt cut them down by creating Social Security and eliminating the fear and anger that those bastards were feeding on for their revolution. 80 years later, and now it's you guys pretending to be patriots by trying to convince young, earnest guys that assault rifles and high capacity gun magazines are the reason that they should take up arms against these United States of America. You're no different than the commies of the 30s. You just wear different jerseys and yell different slogans. The intention is the same, though. You want to cripple and destroy this nation over its rejection of your own personal ideology.

It's as easy to understand as that.
edit on 12/26/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 07:33 AM
link   

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by NorEaster
 


Typical liberal logic at work, so lets break it down for you:

You imply that any revolution against the government is wrong but later on talk about manipulation of that very government. I guess everything is peachy when you agree with that manipulated government. You are also assume that the overwhelming majority are for a assault rifle ban.

You talk about people who are reading this thread, and many like it becoming destabilized and doing something rash. Well, perhaps - but in all honestly they could snap from anything, there is no protecting us from that.

But the scariest thing I get from your post is your willingness to "get rid of people with a certain mindset" (or try to imply that anyone who disagrees is a domestic terrorist)



Take up arms against this nation, and find out what I'm referring to. Go ahead. Hell, you'll be long gone before I ever find out about it on CNN. Seriously. What makes you honestly think that these Oath Keepers are anything more than an overblown means of scamming donations from pissed off conservatives? If these guys are active military and veterans, then they already know that they can't seriously challenge this government over lame crap like an assault weapons ban. They also know that no one - but the kinds of guys who worship the military lifestyle, but have never actually committed to anything but a weekly paycheck throughout the course of their own civilian lives - believes that they'll ever actually take up arms against their own nation. But then they do know that your financial support and speaking fees will always be there if they can get you freaked out enough.

This is sad. It really is. The rest of the planet must think that our society is completely pathetic and stranded in an eternal adolescence.
edit on 12/26/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 07:42 AM
link   
reply to post by NorEaster
 


You speak from a position of comfort. The current government ideology matches your own, therefore, why bother trying to change the draconian rule that you adhere to?

It's for those that don't share your ideals of massive government rule and control that the Oath Keepers attract.

But keep speaking the party line. I find it amusing to see so many decry the thoughts of personal responsibility, individuality, and freedom.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 07:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by NorEaster
 


Typical liberal logic at work, so lets break it down for you:

You imply that any revolution against the government is wrong but later on talk about manipulation of that very government. I guess everything is peachy when you agree with that manipulated government. You are also assume that the overwhelming majority are for a assault rifle ban.


Fixing things isn't attacking the government with weapons. You do know that....right?


You talk about people who are reading this thread, and many like it becoming destabilized and doing something rash. Well, perhaps - but in all honestly they could snap from anything, there is no protecting us from that.


Nothing "just happens". Period. And, just because someone could "snap at anything" doesn't relieve me of direct impact if what I post or say contributes to that person's choice of targets when they do snap. Snapping is one thing, and targeting that insanity at a particular person or group of people is something very different. You may not agree, but this has been very well established in serious research by neuroscientists. Feel free to do your own Googling on this issue, since I feel that the effort could do you a lot of good. My specialty is the biology of cognition and how it exists within the contextual environment as a whole. I'm not a political person (do a post search if you wish and find out) but this thread was sent to me by a friend who is worried about the ramifications of this foolishness. After reading the thread and receiving these responses to my own slight antagonism here, she may be right in her concern.


But the scariest thing I get from your post is your willingness to "get rid of people with a certain mindset" (or try to imply that anyone who disagrees is a domestic terrorist)


um.....this is what you'll be, and it's not my call. I have no authority to tag you as a domestic terrorist, but that doesn't mean that the United States doesn't possess that authority - that legal authority. It does, and it will. And if it does, then all that you've worked to build for your family will immediately be taken from them. We watched this happen to people during the 8 years of the Bush Administration. Many innocent people as well as guilty people. It will happen to anyone who decides that this Oath Keepers cult is an authority that supersedes the authority of the elected government of this nation. I'm not in charge of that, but I don't have to be to know that this is what will happen.
edit on 12/26/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 07:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by NorEaster
 


You speak from a position of comfort. The current government ideology matches your own, therefore, why bother trying to change the draconian rule that you adhere to?

It's for those that don't share your ideals of massive government rule and control that the Oath Keepers attract.

But keep speaking the party line. I find it amusing to see so many decry the thoughts of personal responsibility, individuality, and freedom.


I endured 8 years of false-flag terror and media manipulation during the Bush years without losing it. I watched highly respected professional people lose their careers over questioning the 9/11 official conspiracy theory. I watched science and reason become ridiculed in government and the media. I watched the NSA establish an entire digital spy network (SpyGate) and I watched the Executive Branch admit to human rights abuses that were okayed by their own handpicked team of lawyers - and watched them get away with it when we finally kicked them out of power. And, I never considered taking up arms against my own nation over any of it.

You people live in a delusion of self-aggrandizement that borders on psychopathy. Nothing I say will affect that, but hopefully I reached an lurker or two. Have a happy holiday season. Let's hope for a less violent year ahead for each other.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 08:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by NorEaster
I endured 8 years of false-flag terror and media manipulation during the Bush years without losing it.


And 8 years of Obama is a cake-walk?


I watched highly respected professional people lose their careers over questioning the 9/11 official conspiracy theory. I watched science and reason become ridiculed in government and the media. I watched the NSA establish an entire digital spy network (SpyGate) and I watched the Executive Branch admit to human rights abuses that were okayed by their own handpicked team of lawyers - and watched them get away with it when we finally kicked them out of power. And, I never considered taking up arms against my own nation over any of it.


You may have kicked "them" out of power, but their policies remained.


You people live in a delusion of self-aggrandizement that borders on psychopathy. Nothing I say will affect that, but hopefully I reached an lurker or two. Have a happy holiday season. Let's hope for a less violent year ahead for each other.


Nope. We look beyond political affiliation, unlike some, and see even more damage being to to individuality, personal responsibility, and personal liberty.

But keep repeating the mantra that Obama has your best interests at heart. That is a self-delusion that is incomparable.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 08:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by DaTroof
So they take an oath to defend the Constitution, but cry when there is public support for Constitutionally repealing an amendment?

They don't really understand what the Constitution is, do they?


Speaking of not understanding the COnstitution, you need to have a Constitutional convention to repeal an Amendment. It is not a simple matter of passing a new law.



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 08:33 AM
link   

Originally posted by DaTroof

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon

Originally posted by DaTroof
So they take an oath to defend the Constitution, but cry when there is public support for Constitutionally repealing an amendment?

They don't really understand what the Constitution is, do they?


It is irrelevant if there is "public support to repeal the 2nd amendment." This fallacy that "we are a democracy" is ridiculous. Some things cannot be voted on in our republic, our natural born rights happen to be one of those things.



I never said we live in a democracy.

Natural born rights, except for y'know... letting blacks be considered citizens or allowing women to vote. Oh, those natural born rights weren't in the OG Constitution? The Constitution is a living document, and susceptible to alteration. It's time to get rid of guns.

So you would be cool with returning African Americans to slavery if it was done by popular vote?



posted on Dec, 26 2012 @ 08:46 AM
link   
reply to post by NorEaster
 

i exited the matrix long ago friend.
you want to manipulate all those around you, feel free, it is America after all


however, you won't succeed in this endeavor.
this imaginary movement is nothing new, it's been done, and done, and done again for all of the 20th century.

for all the efforts of so very many, you've forgotten the most basic x-factor of all ... we're still humans.

go ahead, test Mother Nature, she's been waiting a long time.

did you know that threats like you make are 'eligible' to be flagged?
did you know that buying things requires money ?
if you weren't aware of either, you should be now.

and you're sure this is my IP how ?

uhuh, that would be interesting.
kinda hard to erase what doesn't exist.
since i don't have any of what you mentioned, what else are you gonna chase ?

just an angry white guy eh ??
ok, you keep believin it


the 30s you say ??
hahahahahaha, more like 1830 or so but hey, why bother with history, right ?

so, folks like Annie Oakley never existed or what?
are they just foreign to you


ya know, i happen to think that the ideology that BUILT this country is the right one to support. Declaration of Independence and all.

there is no negotiating a 'right', end of story.

if you want our guns so bad, set the example and lay yours down first ... all of ya.





new topics

top topics



 
22
<< 2  3  4    6 >>

log in

join