Will the 2012 believers learn from this experience?

reply to post by ImpactoR

Why should there be evidence in advance

That's a wonderful question to ask.

Although there is no evidence and there is reason to believe that disclosure will happen people still propose that disclosure is imminent.

Why would anyone suggest disclosure is imminent? That claim was set for the Olympics in London. I seem to recall that disclosure was set for other days as well. Was there a reason for setting those dates, or was it just another unsubstantiated guess?

You mention the 2013 solar maximum. What can we learn? What is the evidence? Solar models are not that good today. The original projection had been for a greater than average maximum in 2012. Now models show a less than average maximum in 2013. What we can tell from past solar activity is that a less than average maximum does not mean that there cannot be isolated large events. So a big event is possible although unlikely. The Earth is rather small meaning that few large events are likely to hit the Earth. Life has existed on Earth for billions of years. The Earth being cooked by a solar event has billions of years of fossils suggesting that will not happen.

So evidence is important. It tells us about events. It tells us about possibilities.

Originally posted by Julie Washington

And since you seem to abhor threads that have no backing… I would appreciate if you could provide a link to the proof that the Mayan Codexes are a hoax.

No they are real, there is no deniying that and if anyone says they are not might as well be on the other end of the spectrum to all this.

The problem is we are now faced with an understanding that the Mayan codices and Calendars have as much mystical meaning as our own standard mundane calendar does. Over all, they are fantastic pieces that shows just how Man could understand many physical aspects of the movements in our universe with only using the naked eye and time...extremely fascinating to say the least, but in the end we are talking about working tools they used for very mundane purposes and their mystical side to it all was all the aspects of an ancient culture that applied the mystic side of things to areas they just couldn't understand yet.

2012 was a banner year for me and some of the 2012 threads contributed to vast amount of knowledge I learned of Mayan culture, Mesoamerican culture, Egyptian culture. Why? Because it got me interested in reading more about them. I now spend several hours a day learning about the other cultures and history and many of these come with prophecies.

So for me 2012 was the lifting of the veil. I gained more new knowledge that any other years of my life and none of it had anything to do with the end of the world prophecy.

So 2012 for me was real – I have been enlightened.

I think everyone learned much as people debated it all. Just debating makes people research just to prove their point and that was a positive event for all.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I could slap all of you. Just shut up about the whole damn thing already. Do you need vindication? Do you REALLY need a golden trophy, a cookie, a medal, a handskake or slap on the back? maybe a golden star to say, "Oh, look, you were RIGHT for once. Good job!"

Let me repeat: this is not a "I told you so" thread. This is about learning from 2012.

Let me provide another idea about things to be cautious about.

When a video repeatedly states, "what if" and then goes on to act as if this suggestion is the truth, then be cautious of the contents. Here are common examples,

1. What if the Mayans prophecies were true
   
2. What if the pyramids were actually energy sources
   
3. What if earthquakes were increasing
   
4. What if humans suddenly evolved due to radiation from the galactic core
   
5. What if the Mayans knew about future events
   
6. What if the the ancients had access to anti-gravity machines
   

It's fine to make suppositions, but don't allow some con artist to then pretend that the supposition is true.

You know, OP, you're just as bad as the believers. Even though the 21st has come and gone, you people are STILL making threads tearing down the people who think that mankind needs to change. Because that's what it is, you know? Despite all of your egotistical nose-rubbing, you and everyone else needs to change. That's what the whole thing was all about.

Sorry, but this straw man argument is completely wrong.

Yeah, OP. You make me wish something HAD happened. Because then, you would sound like such an arrogant cock strutting its stuff up and down the row, making everyone hate its attitude. Make ATS HAPPY the world hasn't ended or changed. Right now, you're doing a piss poor job of it. All of you are.

There are those that would like to see lots of people killed to avoid the same of having been wrong. This is not about you or whatever wacko ideas you might have latched onto.

I ain't the least bit happy about it. I think whatever spared us made a dreadful mistake. And if I ever have doubts, I'll just come back to this thread. On a last note - If you don't like 2012 threads, THEN DON'T READ THEM OR PARTICIPATE IN THEM.

Nothing spared us. Nothing threatened us.

The claims of 2012 were bizarre hoaxes.

I have posted 3 ideas now on how people can learn from the hoax of 2012. Any other ideas out there?

reply to post by Bone75

There was a shift in consciousness... you weren't part of it.

This is a claim I call the Emperor's New Clothes. Anyone that fell for this claim of a consciousness shift will wake up to reality one day and realize they are naked.

reply to post by Unity_99

Do you think 2012 was a hoax? A Mayan Hoax? I don't think the Mayan's calendars, which either originated from them or the Spanish conquest, aka Rome, for we don't know for sure much about the Mayans, the conquerors rewrote history, the Mayans disappeared.

The Mayan civilization was gone before the Spanish arrived in the New World. We know about their calendars because they left information that has been decoded.

In any case, I don't see that as a hoax, but more as cycles.

The 2012 date is based on the long count calendar. It is not a cyclic calendar. It has no cycles. It is a simple count of days.

So 2012 may have been doom to some, but for others, it should be a time to think in terms of the cycles that the Hopi, Natives and Mayans speak of, the renewal of unity, love and golden age. Which should mean people start to wake up.

The Hopi did not have a calendar. The Mayans had no prophecies associated with the end of the baktun on their long count calendar. There is nothing to wake up to if you want to use the words of the ancients.

We don't know what the calendar means.

Sure we do. It is a count of days.

The sun is emitting a new particle/energy.

False.

So, there really was no experience to learn from. As a cycle marker, the calendar date merely marks a season, that season is still unfolding and in earth history, will unfold for a long time.

Oh,did you mean Doomers (as opposed to those interested in the mayan calendar and the cosmos, did they learn anything? Some will be setting their sights on the next installment of the Doom Series unless something jars them out of negativity, like everyone doing the work they came to do, ie. Love.

The lesson you might like to learn from 2012 is that the stories by the Mayans you mention here are modern fairy tales made up AFTER 1983.

reply to post by Unity_99

I consider the difference between those who try to control what others think, and use names to call people, loonies, etc, and those who only wish freedom, advancement, love and equality, for others and work on overcoming bad things within, and the only control they wish over others, is to cure, heal or abolish that which harms or enslaves others, to be very significant.......

To tell lies and fabrications and to surround that with love and peace somehow makes things better? No. There are many hoaxers and con artists that do that sort of this. They claim messages of peace being passed on by star people . They claim great wonders and knowledge being passed on through love and peace. All you have to do is send them money. These are still hoaxes, frauds, and lies no matter how pretend loving the message is presented.

let me send my message wrapped up in lovey dovey gobbledy gook.

A message of love and harmony from the light bearers to all whose hearts are ready to be uplifted. Please avoid the messages of 2012 which come from lost soul bent on turning you away from the light of happiness. Free yourself of the anger of Nibiru. Free yourself of the bonds of disclosure. Free your mind of the false stories of second Suns and destroying anger from Sol. Let your intuition avoid the entrapment of increasing quakes. Let your intuition guide you beyond the fear of increased volcanism. Grasp onto the beauty of gravity that shows us not to fear asteroid impacts in 2012. Harmonize with your world and be not accosted by the remote viewers who worship the failure of darkness. See past the false tales of Mayan claims of 2012. Let your knowledge comprehend the beauty of reality and the clarity that 2012 was a wonderful year and not the sham presented by those falsely claiming ascension or doom.

reply to post by Julie Washington

As the author of the 3 Days of Darkness thread I can personally attest to the fact that Stereo is a SCOFFER!

You missed an important property of a scoffer: someone making a decision without examining the issues.

I am not a scoffer. I showed with evidence that the 3 days of darkness thread was full of false ideas and was baseless. I presented evidence. Those claiming the 3 days of darkness were upset with evidence and any rational thinking.

Your cherry picking of a quote after a long winded effort to be rational is funny and sad to boot.

He just couldn’t wait to call me an “idiot” and a “failure”.

That is a lie.

But see, the 3 Days of Darkness is not a hoax and not a failure. It is written in prophecy in many cultures… it just didn’t happen in 2012. So he labels it a hoax.

It is not a Mayan prophecy. It is not associated with 2012. So it is a 2012 hoax.

Now Stereo says there is no Mayan Prophecy and no Mayan Codexes. I’m not even sure what to say about that…. But that statement almost beats all the 2012 hoaxes made! Talk about a disinfoagent! (and no, the Mayan Prophecy never said it was the end of the world).

There is no Mayan prophecy associated with 2012. That's a simple fact. I have never ever stated that there are no Mayan Codices. Another falsehood.

And since you seem to abhor threads that have no backing… I would appreciate if you could provide a link to the proof that the Mayan Codexes are a hoax.

Are you referring to the comic book material Drunvalo was touting?

2012 was a banner year for me and some of the 2012 threads contributed to vast amount of knowledge I learned of Mayan culture, Mesoamerican culture, Egyptian culture. Why? Because it got me interested in reading more about them. I now spend several hours a day learning about the other cultures and history and many of these come with prophecies.

I appreciate hearing that.

reply to post by BlueMule

People will learn that "2012" (whatever that is) was/is/will be a time of action for shamans, mystics, pilgrims. The fruits of those psychic actions grow in the collective unconscious. That's where the "golden age" transformations of global consciousness are made.

Do you have any evidence for any of this or is this yet another unsubstantiated claim made in support of the hoax of 2012?

One of the stories of 2012 that made me scratch my head in disbelief was the notion that it was possible to sneak up on the Earth by approaching directly at the South Pole. This was repeated often. No one ever gave a reason for this. I have to assume after dozens of statements to that effect that people simply took the idea hook, line, and sinker without thought.

Another lesson that can be learned from this is to draw a picture for yourself. If someone says something that sounds odd see if you can draw a picture and understand the situation.

On that same note, if someone says something that seems extraordinary try asking others for their ideas instead of blindly posting as if it is true. It is not just average people that assume others are wrong. I read a book about bone analysis the other day in which a 3-d technique was listed as a 2-d technique. Obviously, the authors did not understand the mathematics or probably even read the paper. Instead of asking they published a big mistake. So even scientists can make these mistakes. It pays to ask when something seems so odd.

Another lesson that can be learned from 2012.

If a story makes an easily verifiable claim then check it. Here are examples:

1. The claim that in 1984 the Washington Post reported that NASA discovered a new planet.

Here you have a date, and a newspaper. Use a search engine and see if that claim is true. Turns out that is a lie.

2. The claim that a person works at a particular university.

Go to the university and see who is on the faculty. So many times that name has not been listed.

3. A story claims that a particular year was the worst year for storms

Go to the wikipedia and see if that might be true

4. A story suggests that fireballs are increasing suddenly

Look for a society that records these events and see if they mention anything. The American Meteor Society is such a place. Turns out the claim is false.

If numbers or dates or places or people are mentioned check out these simpler to check out parts first to see if there is any truth to the story. You'll be surprised at how many false claims are posted in things like the 2012 forum.

Originally posted by BlueMule
People will learn that "2012" (whatever that is) was/is/will be a time of action for shamans, mystics, pilgrims. The fruits of those psychic actions grow in the collective unconscious. That's where the "golden age" transformations of global consciousness are made.

As the next age unfolds, those positive changes will rain down on humanity. That is the meaning of the Aquarius symbolism of the pitcher carrier of spiritual holy water. The water was/is/will rain down from heaven (the collective unconscious) onto the earth (the individual ego self). The wasteland was/is/will be healed.

We will find that many shamans/mystics/pilgrims are in action. Gradually, their stories will surface. Shamanic 'night journies' into the 'pleroma' have happened and are happening. Be patient.

Not sure if I heard that one before, I assume you just made that up on the fly. I give you a 5/10 for that attempt to make up complete BS. I've definitely heard better... Try using some additional words like ascend, Nibiru, and Elenin. Your post will sound cooler, and more people reading it for the first time will agree with you, trust me.

If Aliens were to come, the cometh passing near the Earth in 2013 is a good time for that to happen. No seriously, such astronomical events have more meaning than the end of a calendar such as Mayans which clearly was not meant to represent some astronomical event (because if such allignment happens every year, then this is no different). Based on history such space events could suggest the coming of someone. This or wait for another unknown time for that to happen.

Originally posted by stereologist
You mention the 2013 solar maximum. What can we learn? What is the evidence? Solar models are not that good today. The original projection had been for a greater than average maximum in 2012. Now models show a less than average maximum in 2013. What we can tell from past solar activity is that a less than average maximum does not mean that there cannot be isolated large events. So a big event is possible although unlikely. The Earth is rather small meaning that few large events are likely to hit the Earth. Life has existed on Earth for billions of years. The Earth being cooked by a solar event has billions of years of fossils suggesting that will not happen.

So evidence is important. It tells us about events. It tells us about possibilities.

According to NASA sudden large solar bursts are not likely and the current state if the Sun suggest they are quite minor. The models are accurate enough to show nothing serious will come from the Sun all of a sudden, or such activity would be observed over some bigger period of time.

I fought with you Stereo on 2012 threads a few years back or so. I'll admit I was foolish to think it was possible. I hope I have learned and your thread does not make me angry.

You told me 100 times that nothing was going to happen. No matter how much I wanted to believe it. Nothing major happened.

I still believe that date is significant, to me anyway. I still believe my purpose on earth is to help people understand spirituality. I feel like I'm supposed to get louder now.

reply to post by stereologist



I really don't see what Nibiru, not to mention polar shifts, Elenin and other assorted "phenomena" of the kind, have to do with serious attempts at interpretation of the Maya calendar. McKenna - of whom I am NOT a fan - and others never mentioned any such thing, nor did they ever speak of anything even remotely cataclysmic. (I may be wrong about this, but that's not what I understood from what they wrote. Certainly they never spoke about Nibiru and what-not, at least not in this context.)

As for the girl killing herself....
(A girl who must have been unstable enough in any case?
It's like saying that poor wretched nurse in the UK killed herself because of that silly prank.)

If that's true and ONLY one person killed herself, it only goes to show how few people really invested much credence in this.

On the other hand, I know of more than one that has killed himself/herself because a physician told them their condition was irreversible or incurable. Based on what? On a theory.
(For example: osteonecrosis is irreversible and can only be treated - up to a point - with grafting, core decompression and similar invasive procedures. That's the theory, complemented by another theory: that the mind and/or whatever other sources of energy there may be, invisible to the eye and to our medical instruments, could not possibly work.
Well, based on what I've seen with my own two eyes, these two associated theories are total bunkum. But it's bunkum that kills, directly or indirectly, thousands of people every year,)

There are about 100 000 iatrogenic deaths a year, every year, in the USA alone, according to Harvard studies. Because of human mistakes? Some. Other mistakes are simply the consequence of blind faith in the absolute truths of certain theories.

But that's just one field, albeit very important.
Our entire cosmology, beginning with the Big Bang, is a theory, presented as truth. (It may be the truth, but there has been no proof of it as yet.)
Most of physics is based on theories derived from theories.
Our Western medicine is based on a theory - that the body is a machine, a sum of its components, with no input from the mind (which is believed to be strictly local, i.e. confined to brain functions).

And all of the above is directly channelled - excuse the pun - through the educational system and the media
as TRUTHS, not theories.

There is nothing wrong with theories, unless they are presented as truths and people whose life experience directly contradicts those theories are marginalized and treated as ignorant kooks.
REAL science, one that adheres to the original meaning of the term (scio), would waste no opportunity to explore "contradictory" experiences, and do so in good faith.

The truth is, our entire (predominant) world view is based on late 18th- and 19th-century positivism and scientism of the worst kind, yet there is no room to even question it within the system itself. This lack of room for questioning is typical of cults, and cults present theories as truths -- and woe to those who dare even question them!

I could go on, as they say, but I trust - based on other posts by you - that you are not going to try and nitpick disingenously, as some on this website, and others, are prone to.
I think you understand the gist of it.

I hate ignorance every bit as you do.
But ignorance is rife everywhere, including the scientific circles.
The only difference is certain theories are dictated to us as truths.
"2012" never was.

All the best.

reply to post by sticky

I'll admit I was foolish to think it was possible.

I learned a lot in the 2012 forum. I learned about archaeology. I learned some astronomy. I learned about new advances in astronomy. Those are all good things.

I everyone learns something then the debate was worthwhile.

I too was wrong on many occasions and always admitted that when shown my errors. That is the way it should work.

I'm glad 2012 was significant for you.

reply to post by sticky


Kudos to you, your 2012 "personal change" is far more admiral and tangible than those who choose to believe the Emperor's new clothes after it's apparent that nothing happened. "Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it".

reply to post by AdAstra


I too have no clue why so much clutter was tossed onto the 2012 heap, but it was.

As for the person that killed themselves, we certainly cannot suggest that the person would have done it anyways or been inclined to do herself harm. We certainly would never be caught suggesting the rape victim had it coming or desired it. We wouldn't want to be caught suggesting that someone was murdered because they wanted that. I am suggesting you are stating that either, but i want all readers to be aware of these possible thoughts. The person died at their own hands because they could not face the scenarios that were told them. They were placed in such a state of fear that they ended their own life. The nurse situation is a bit different unless someone told them that they were in danger of losing their job and license or whatever due to what they did. I don't believe that was the case with the nurse. This girl was not the only person with those thoughts. There was a group in Brazil which was stopped by the police from a mass suicide.

I agree with much of what you wrote, but not the following:

The truth is, our entire (predominant) world view is based on late 18th- and 19th-century positivism and scientism of the worst kind, yet there is no room to even question it within the system itself.

You should go to a scientific meeting and see the discussions which are sometimes volatile as researchers present their work often in conflict with the status quo.

A recent example in the neurosciences was the discussion of neurogenesis. Another issue that show up in physics on a regular basis are the superluminal issues. Scientists question and retest many things and often find the current theories to be correct. Sometimes they don't.

2012" never was.

Acutally, I cannot recall when the believers of 2012 had any position other than it was gospel.

Here is another hint at checking sources of information.

Look for dates. Dates help you place information in a logical order. Dates also can reveal problems with the claims.

I've noticed many pseudoscience articles rely on outdated information. They present scientific articles that are old.

Creationists do this. They often mention things from magazines from the 1800s that have impressive sounding names. Those magazines were like Look and Life and the squibs they refer to were never source checked or meant to be considered factual.

Many pseudoscience articles will use reports from science before 1900 as the basis for their claims. If there is no new material on that field, then it's probably not up to date or the research was dropped or reinterpreted in a new context.

NASA reports from 2006 to 2009 are often used to show that the solar maximum is to above above average. Later reports realized that those predictions were wrong. Go with the newer material.

One of the issues of 2012 that garnered much attention was the issue of another planet entering the solar system. It was named rogue, Nibiru, Hercolubus, and other names.

A simple lesson on gravity is that the solar system and universe are shaped by this force. The paths of the planets in our solar system are due to the forces acting on the planet. The planet has momentum. That is speed times mass. The planet would move in a straight line, but the gravity of other heavenly bodies causes the planet to turn. The orbit of the Earth around the Sun is mainly the result of the Sun's gravity pulling us in a curve around the Sun. There is no track that guides the Earth. The gravity of other planets does cause the Earth to have little deviations from the path that the Sun alone would cause.

If another planet sized object entered the solar system, that new gravitational body would cause the Earth and all of the other planets to deviate from their previous courses. Amateur astronomers would detect that planets were not quite where they should be. Professional astronomers would notice that much earlier since they have better instruments.

A new planet does not have to be seen to be detected, even though a new Mars sized planet would be detected out 8x the distance to Pluto. That's far away.

The next time someone claims a new planet in our solar system look around at amateur astronomer websites to see if there is anything being mentioned there.

There will never be a shortage of people who want to spread disinformation. There will also never be a shortage of believers to spread misinformation, new gullible people come across this crap everyday.