Will the 2012 believers learn from this experience?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Will the cynics and the sycophantic naysayers learn something about jumping the gun and making false assumptions?

Good question. Scoffing is in my opinion as poor as being gullible. Rejection or acceptance should be based on the merits of the evidence. Getting scoffers to examine the issues is often difficult to impossible.

Hardly likely. They are all mentally disturbed and will seek another thing to feed their compulsive addiction.

reply to post by ImpactoR

I find it offensive to underestimate cataclysms that can happen any time, thus it wouldn't be laughable if anything from inside the Earth had happened and the Mayans had known about it because these interal disasters cannot be predicted.

The issue is not if quakes or volcanoes can happen, but rather if they are increasing.

This plus suggesting solar flares, asteroids and Nibiru were wrong to believe in.

Solar flares do happen. They don't cook the Earth. Asteroids are a danger and objects hit the Earth all of the time. They are too small to cause damage. Nibiru is a fake.

Why not? Any MAN MADE event could have happened Dec 21st because one can decide to act on that date.

There is zero evidence for disclosure happening at any point in time. Didn't happen for the decades of such claims.

Again if not natural and planned on purpose, why would it be impossible?

The idea that there will be rescuers from afar is old. It was told in the novel Lord of the Flies. Why would aliens that can rescue people wait for the last moment to do it? Makes no sense. The story of alien rescuers is a shoddy story; it's childishly written.

There is no evidence that the elite are hiding in bunkers. The claim was that Obama and company were going to hide in Colorado. They did not go there. The claim was that dead celebrities faked their death. Nope. Dead as dead can be.

None of these stories was based on fact. They are all based on fantasies and in some cases outright lies.

So how can people that accepted these stories avoid being conned in the future?

Learning to avoid a con in life is important. It protects your safety and finances and health to name a few things.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by redreemer

 

Sorry. Not sure where this confusion on your part comes from.

What can people that so vocally defended these issues learn? It is possible to come out of this with a means of not falling for similar hoaxes in the future?

I understand where you are coming from, and I have the utmost respect for your opinion.
My previous reply came across as flippant and accusational. I apologise.

What I was basically trying to say:

The people who blindly accepted all the notions surrounding the date were very few and far between. And you're right, some people believed x, some y, etc.. and maybe picked up more variables to attribute to the '2012' theme. But that doesn't mean that the whole thing was a mistake now does it?

Saying that people placed their faith in a 2012 hoax is nonsense, because even the die-hard sceptics placed their faith in a need to dispel their perception of the fallacy. See what I'm getting at?
Personally, I really can't see where the logic ended and the illusion began, because it was never a theory set in stone, but more of one which flowered according to each person's outlook/field of expertise.

The discussion of x, discussion of y, was all flagged under 2012. Very rarely was a topic made on any one of these issues before someone came in with a huge blanket, saying "2012 is a hoax, enough of this already".

I feel that the amount of people disbelieving the constituent topics because of the over-arching 2012 theme vastly outnumbered the people who blindly accepted it. You gotta agree with me there?

All in all I'm pretty sure everyone here learned a ton of stuff in the last year, no matter which side of the fence they were on. Would you take back everything you gained personally throughout the past few months? I wouldn't.

So if I had to say what we learned from this? If you ever want to disprove, or turn people away from the discussion of many alternative viewpoints, maybe group them all under one hat. Make sure it's a very eclectic hat which clashes with any outfit. When people see how strange it is, they might refuse the material, the paint, the sewing needle, the yarn, the colour arrangement, etc.. You see what I'm trying to say? The 'step-back' in knowledge wasn't the group acceptance, but the group negation.

I hope I'm making sense of what I'm trying to say, and it's just an observation I wanted to share.

You and I are in the very same boat now. ATS is free to discuss single topics again, in the hope that truth can be found, and more knowledge gained, without the stigma of getting labelled a 'believer' or a 'realist'.

just because holograms were not found to be used on 9/11, does that mean the official story was spot on?

What is a 2012 believer?

You lumped everything into bullet form and called them the same?

From what i can tell, all but 3,6,8,9 actually did happen. But for some reason you threw mass enlightenment in with comets hitting the earth Very typical rhetoric on this site I'm afraid.

A cycle DID just come to an end, and a new one begins. Was it as drastic as was depicted in the live action movie? No your right.

When will believers ever learn.... everything? Never.

I read off this site only as a framework to apply in REAL life, From what i have learned from talking to many people outside is that most of them really believe that spirits are changing. This isn't something I read of the net, these are real people at real jobs giving their feelings on the real world.

Other than the crap you heard on TV and the BS you read here on this site. Do you know anybody that actually ran to the hills? Everyone I spoke to embraced 2012 and looked forward to life in a new age, That belief even if unfounded with science made a difference - a big one - and thank you to all that took part. Your reality of a free spiritual future will soon out weigh those with nothing but bombs and profits on their mind. 2012 is only the tipping point, The best is yet to come.

Crazy pre-2012 Theorists: "December 21/22 will be the end!!!!!!"

Crazy post 2012 Theorists: "I know nothing happened, but this is the START of something big."

*waits for the new end date*

Originally posted by capone1
Crazy pre-2012 Theorists: "December 21/22 will be the end!!!!!!"

Crazy post 2012 Theorists: "I know nothing happened, but this is the START of something big."

*waits for the new end date*

Pre-natal Parents: "December 21/22 will be the end!!!!!!"

Post-natal Parents: "This is the START of something big."

Something which can be applied to any transition actually proves their views, even though it seems you were trying to do the opposite.

reply to post by redreemer

The people who blindly accepted all the notions surrounding the date were very few and far between. And you're right, some people believed x, some y, etc.. and maybe picked up more variables to attribute to the '2012' theme. But that doesn't mean that the whole thing was a mistake now does it?

In the general population the believers were few and far between, but not here at ATS.

2012 was a mistake. It was a mistake because it was based completely on false ideas cooked up to sell books in the 1980s. From there everything it seems was piled into the heap that was the 2012 craze.

Saying that people placed their faith in a 2012 hoax is nonsense, because even the die-hard sceptics placed their faith in a need to dispel their perception of the fallacy. See what I'm getting at?

I am not aware of any skeptics that placed any faith in dispelling the fallacies. What happened was people providing evidence that others were latching onto lies and hoaxes. Faith was not involved. Reasoning and education were done.

The reason so many different issues were tossed onto the heap of 2012 nonsense was that the people were following the money. It's all about money and getting people to send them money. 2012 was a cash cow for the scammers. Back in 2000 people were attaching ideas to the great alignment of 5-5-00 or Y2K.

I agree that most people were indifferent to 2012. Those that recognized it as a ludicrous hoax were the majority and paid little heed to the hoax. But there was a noisy small group of believers that repeatedly posted stories of new planets, second Suns, coming quakes, increasing volcanism, DNA changes, etc.

All in all I'm pretty sure everyone here learned a ton of stuff in the last year, no matter which side of the fence they were on.

Now that is the heart of the issue in this thread. Did the 2012 believers actually learn from this? Did the 2012 believers take away some inkling of how to avoid these same sort of hoaxes?

Lessons to be learned are as simple such as:
1. Take something with a grain of salt if it comes from someone that has been wrong every time such as the videos from Terrell.
2. If someone claims that an asteroid is going to hit the Earth check out that claim. See if the object will be in the plane of the ecliptic when it passes Earth. Will it be above or below?

reply to post by FirstCasualty

just because holograms were not found to be used on 9/11, does that mean the official story was spot on?

One does not follow from the other.

What is a 2012 believer?

Those believing things they lump into the 2012 mess.

You lumped everything into bullet form and called them the same?

I've asked many times why an issue was placed in the 2012 forum and the answer to me was that it belonged here. I'm not the lumper.

From what i can tell, all but 3,6,8,9 actually did happen.

None of these items happened. So you are wrong 5 out of 9 times.

But for some reason you threw mass enlightenment in with comets hitting the earth Very typical rhetoric on this site I'm afraid.

I did not throw those onto the heap of 2012 hoaxes. Others did that.

A cycle DID just come to an end, and a new one begins.

No new cycle began, The Mayan long count calendar is linear, not cyclic. So no cycle ended. No cycle began.

Do you know anybody that actually ran to the hills? Everyone I spoke to embraced 2012 and looked forward to life in a new age, That belief even if unfounded with science made a difference - a big one - and thank you to all that took part.

Personally I do not know any wacky people like that. Here is a thread about a museum in Russia that sold 1000 tickets to their doomsday shelter. So yes, people did run for the hills. They ran to the hills in many places.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

2012 is only the tipping point, The best is yet to come.

This is the lame excuse for failure. The same excuse has been used hundreds of times. Camping used that when he failed. Miller did too. Calleman is using that excuse. Drunvalo is using that excuse.

reply to post by stereologist

In a word.....No!

Delusion is more appealing than reality to a certain mindset, always has been, always will be.....It's an eternal source of profit to those who know better, yet lack moral scruples.

reply to post by stereologist
[more

Well i guess that is where we are losing each other. You are basing everything you believe about things that you found on the internet - this site - who's slogan you are tarnishing at the moment. You are being ignorant about life outside of ATS and you are denying that. There is no science or fact that can back up what people are feeling at the moment. If you would like to wait around till someone posts it to read that is your choice.

We cant even agree how the universe was formed, how long mankind has been in earth, did an asteroid hit the earth, or if Corexit is a good idea to clean up oil spills. But here you are with an air of irrefutable truth, that EVERYONE (not just the doomsdayers) who believed there was any significance to this year and beginning a new age (which astrologically is also not agreed on) is not only wrong but suffering mentally?

I cant tell you how much fun we are all having reading your posts though. You are an entertaining chap.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by redreemer

 

Lessons to be learned are as simple such as:
1. Take something with a grain of salt if it comes from someone that has been wrong every time such as the videos from Terrell.
2. If someone claims that an asteroid is going to hit the Earth check out that claim. See if the object will be in the plane of the ecliptic when it passes Earth. Will it be above or below?

I can agree with you there - Take things with a grain of salt, and it test for yourself.

I don't know how many people tested the 'spiritual claims' though? Do you really think absolutely everyone researched that aspect? Did they still their mind, and just observe the ebb and flow of their awareness? Even just a few minutes of inward reflection? It really doubt it.

It seems like the easiest, and most direct proof one could verify. You can't say everyone did that? Your argument is one sided because you seem to imply that every spiritual person wants to waste money on books, dvd's or workshops; or even gets wrapped up in that whole mess?

Did you spend money on books and DVDs to come to any of your conclusions? Maybe a scientific galactic plane seminar? See, it doesn't work like that. You can't throw charlatans into the mix, it doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by stereologist
Being open minded does not mean accepting every fairy tale that is put out there.

There’s being open minded and there’s being gullible.

What I find shocking is that people seem to think that they have some insight us mere mortals don’t have. We are mockingly called “sheeple”! The implausibility and lack of evidence of some of the rubbish surrounding the end-of-the-world demonstrates the lack of intellectual rigour some people apply to their beliefs.

Try as I might, I never saw the second Sun, nor the planet looming just below the Moon, yet many people filmed it for YouTube.

Let this be a lesson to people who think they have a gift. That gift is gullibility, and you can keep it.

Oh, look; a flying pig

Regards

Originally posted by 3n19m470
Springer and crew work their TAILS off day in and day out to bring us this great site, but that doesn't matter one iota to people like...well, you know...they just HAVE to score that one little extra point in a fools game of one-upsmanship that nobody will care about in a week... I guess it REALLY DOES matter that much to them that they don't give a crap

You are of course talking about those who make up stories about 2012 and post them here claiming that they just know the world will end etc, then when of course it does not end or change they come up with any excuse as to why it never happened, refusing to admit that they were wrong. They instead try and blame those who said they silly claims were just silly, and not based on anything at all.

Originally posted by FirstCasualty
reply to post by stereologist
[more

There is no science or fact that can back up what people are feeling at the moment.

Unfortunately that's the problem, it's just a feeling, and if you made a positive change to yourself, it has nothing to do with a phantom planet, or a non alignment or transversing a different plane of existence.. None of that actually happened.

We all have feelings it's part of being human, but attributing those feelings to something that just is well, impossible, is not helping the less.... uh... mentally stable of those out there.

>>
But there was a noisy small group of believers that repeatedly posted stories of new planets, second Suns, coming quakes, increasing volcanism, DNA changes, etc.
>>

Those people (amongst those also those so called "Light Workers") posting their CRAP on the internet for decades already.

Some of the recent 2012 "stories" read like 1:1 copies, it's not even new. It's the exact same story as told for decades already.

Those people used and still use ANY opportunity to make the same claims:

Back before 2000 it was several events, I very much remember the Hale-Bopp story, then 1999 apocalypse, then 2000 to some extent.... then Elenin....then 2012....and probably a ton I forgot.

And FOR DECADES already "the signs are right there that the end is nigh"....cheezus realize that you are dealing with scammers, frauds, delusional people. They are repeatedly proven wrong and not one single thing ever came true..for many, many years already.

if anything, those people make many other spiritual and new-age people look like idiots. Its the same with "UFOlogy" where the nutcases are those which are responsible that the entire field is not taken seriously anymore.

I'll use this opportunity to say to all the people who promoted the 2012 "Mayan' silliness

"I told you so"....ah I feel better

Now bring on the next series of nonsensical doom and gloom predictions.....lol

reply to post by stereologist


To answer your question: No, the usual suspects will just make a big hoopla out of the next "big" thing. Clearly no one has learned from the fact that the false-flag terrorist attack operation by the Mossad at the British summer Olympics didn't happen, so I don't expect a lot of people will learn from this Mayan calendar hooey either.

It seems a more apropos slogan/motto for ATS than "Deny Ignorance" is "You Know It's True".

reply to post by FirstCasualty

Well i guess that is where we are losing each other. You are basing everything you believe about things that you found on the internet - this site - who's slogan you are tarnishing at the moment. You are being ignorant about life outside of ATS and you are denying that. There is no science or fact that can back up what people are feeling at the moment. If you would like to wait around till someone posts it to read that is your choice.

Not only are you completely wrong here, but you miss the issue which the thread addresses.

The issue is that 2012 was a 100% failure and no wonder. All of the predictions, statements, and whatevers about 2012 turned out to be wrong. Most people knew that was the case. Some for whatever reason did not. The discussion here is whether or not those that so often loudly support 2012 claims have learned from this. Will 2012 believers fall for the next hoax or have they learned how to differentiate between hoaxes and the plausible?

We cant even agree how the universe was formed, how long mankind has been in earth, did an asteroid hit the earth, or if Corexit is a good idea to clean up oil spills. But here you are with an air of irrefutable truth, that EVERYONE (not just the doomsdayers) who believed there was any significance to this year and beginning a new age (which astrologically is also not agreed on) is not only wrong but suffering mentally?

I don't suggest anyone is mentally suffering. I simply note that there are many here that have adamantly supported obvious hoaxes and I have named several here. I listed only a few of what is a long list of hoaxes.

Let's take one of your statements, "did an asteroid hit the Earth." The answer to that is yes and it has happened many times. What does that have to do with failures such as the completely false statement that volcanism is increasing. That rubbish claim seems to have come out of a rather small eruption in Iceland.

I cant tell you how much fun we are all having reading your posts though. You are an entertaining chap.

You are welcome.

reply to post by redreemer

I can agree with you there - Take things with a grain of salt, and it test for yourself.

I don't know how many people tested the 'spiritual claims' though? Do you really think absolutely everyone researched that aspect? Did they still their mind, and just observe the ebb and flow of their awareness? Even just a few minutes of inward reflection? It really doubt it.

It seems like the easiest, and most direct proof one could verify. You can't say everyone did that? Your argument is one sided because you seem to imply that every spiritual person wants to waste money on books, dvd's or workshops; or even gets wrapped up in that whole mess?

Did you spend money on books and DVDs to come to any of your conclusions? Maybe a scientific galactic plane seminar? See, it doesn't work like that. You can't throw charlatans into the mix, it doesn't make sense.

After all of these massive and stupendous failures of 2012 people are trying to pretend after the fact that no one was really taken in by these idiotic hoaxes.

There are tens of thousands of posts here at ATS that differ with this position.

No amount of pretending covers up by the blatant fact that many, many posters supported the claims of 2012.

I am getting the idea that nothing was learned. That is sad.