Will the 2012 believers learn from this experience?

reply to post by stereologist


that sadly, human's Imaginations is FAR much more interesting than our mundane reality/real-world

Originally posted by stereologist
How can people learn from the 2012 shenanigans?

Many ways. I have learned a lot. And later i'll realize I learne d a lot more than I know. As usual.

You will probably recognise the truth of this comment I posted on another thread, about the dangers of misplaced scepticism;

Originally posted by DISRAELI
I have to agree with this.
For example, I've long noticed how belief in the approach of "Nibiru" was being sustained by scepticism towards the astronomical critics of Nibiru.
This was partly on the grounds that science was tainted by association with TPTB, who would seek to conceal the truth.
Thus the distrust of authority, arising out of scepticism, was dragging along with it a distrust of rationalism, which leads to gulliibility.

reply to post by stereologist

Some people clearly saw these as false ideas and hoaxes. Others did not. What lessons can be learned from this experience. How can the message that hoaxes are being perpetrated be better distributed? How can those tricked into accepting these lies be helped to avoid doing that in the future?

Frankly I don't understand your concern here.

First of all, the "2012" thing wasn't a hoax, which implies a fabrication with intent to deceive.
It was a THEORY, and theories are proved and disproved every day, unless the community supporting it is too orthodox to allow questioning.

Also, what harm has come from it that isn't comparable to equal or much worse harm inflicted on people every day via the media and the bastions of "science"?

People not only believe but LIVE by false ideas - and sometimes outright hoaxes - every single day.
There is no scientific discipline that is free of false ideas and misguided theories. The only difference is, they are presented as TRUTHS to live by. And people do live by them, even though they don't really add up and can lead to much misery. This includes vitally relevant disciplines, such as medicine, to name just one.

So, I really don't see the reason for such deep concern about a theory that was never presented as anything BUT a theory. You were always free to believe it or disbelieve it - which is more than can be said about the perilous fluff that our daily lives are based on, supported by nothing but conceit and deceit of "experts" who are no such thing.

And this comes from someone who never took "2012" seriously and questioned its origins and validity for years!

Of course they're not going to learn, they've been hooked by this crap. What's going to happen from the 22nd & onward is what's always been done: recalculating the EOTW, and repackaging the claims to fit the delivery method du jour. Last time it was Harold Camping. This time it was the Mayans. Next time, it's probably going to be the February 15th '13 asteroid before moving on to the next fabled protagonist of doom that works for them.

What's that saying, a fool & his money are soon parted? The idea evidently applies to common sense as well, and seems to have for a very, very long time. People have been making end of days predictions for thousands of years, and every time the next day comes forth, and the next, and the next, and so on. Unfortunately, like people being swindled out of money for bad products, I don't think there's going to ever be a lack of people lapping up bull-hockey predictions.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by littled16

 

I do agree with you that a remarkably large percentage of the population is going to fall time and time again fro false claims especially end of the world claims. The evidence is quite clear on that,

Do you think that part of the believers might learn to be skeptical?

Sure! Some will roll out of the fog and finally understand the old adage of "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME" but for every one person that finally learns not to blindly believe every new doomsday or ascension theory that comes along there will be at least two more blind believers stepping up to take his/her place. 'Tis the nature of the beast I'm afraid! People want to believe that they have some "special" insight that makes them "different". They do not realize that it merely makes them one of the blind masses.

Short answer: nothing

Long Answer: If you look around the web at all the sites promoting doom and gloom, they are just revising their dates, Nancy is mum on it, probably going to come out with a "the Zeta's Lied" comment again and the cycle will continue, ad naseum.

The problem is, that unless we as a people learn to start to get along better and start working for the betterment of the species, there will always be groups that claim the world is ending or that we're about to be destroyed. It's inevitable, and while to us, it seems quite silly, to them it's quite real, and for some it's an escape from their really bad lives and it's hope that it will all be over soon.

Kind of sad, but.. that's how it goes, the next date should be popping up sometime soon.

The hardcore doomporn believers and the hardcore pseudo-skeptics are both guilty of the same thing. They both project the archetype of the apocalyse 'out there' onto the world when they should be working on withdrawing their projections so they can proceed with the individuation process. The apocalypse is about the "end" and rebirth (born again) of the ego-self. From the insane perspective of the ego-self, that may as well be the end of the world. So it tricks you into thinking along those materialistic lines.

It was never about "the world" ending. But both sides were perfectly willing to run with that straw-man ball for their own polemical purposes.

reply to post by olaru12

Perhaps if we formed a Prayer Circle and prayed for these poor misled souls. Or we could burn some sage over them and cast out the devils that inhabit their brains.

I hate it when good stuff goes to waste - so I'm recycling

:-)

reply to post by sheepslayer247

In fact, no. 2012 claims were not decidable.

Sure they were decidable.

Let me list a few. I'm sure you can fill in decidable issues on your own.

1. There is a second Sun.
No there isn't. A second Sun would make the Earth a scorching inferno. In 1 billion years the Earth will be unlivable as the Sun continues to heat up and increase its output 10% higher than it does today. A second Sun would alter the paths of the planets including the Earth making star charts wrong. Other reasons there is no second Sun are satellite observatories, tide charts, viewing during eclipses, solar filter viewing of the Sun.

2. Nibiru is coming
No there isn't. Astronomers have scanned the solar system out through the Kuiper belt. Nothing out there. A new planet would shift the paths of the known planets. Didn't happen. It would be visible to the unaided eye as Saturn and Jupiter are. Nothing.

3. Quakes are increasing.
Not true. A check of earthquake records shows no difference.

4. People are being born with triple stranded DNA.
False. The base pairs cannot join 3 ways.

5. New Mayan codices discovered.
False. The codices that were discovered are modern forgeries so poorly done that they were cartoonish at best.

These are all decidable issues. There have probably been dozens of these falsehoods sprinkled throughout the 2012 threads.

We have no way of proving that God does not exist. We also have no way of knowing when the world will or will not end. It could end tomorrow.....do you know 100% whether it will or not?

What we do know is that the world is not going to end because of any of the hoaxes that were posted in the 2012 threads.

Also, who's to say that what I believe does not fall into the same category. It's all about perspective and I find it best not to judge, because it is inevitable that someday they will be right.

There is no reason not to separate the possible from the impossible. For the most part the 2012 claims were clearly, demonstrably impossible.

reply to post by 3n19m470

Yeah, now that you mention it, Springer and crew work their TAILS off day in and day out to bring us this great site, but that doesn't matter one iota to people like...well, you know...they just HAVE to score that one little extra point in a fools game of one-upsmanship that nobody will care about in a week... I guess it REALLY DOES matter that much to them that they don't give a crap that they were requested by the admins to take the high ground on this one. Oh no...bottom feeders like this just love wallowing around down in the muck and grime, no matter who's toes they have to step on to get down there.

I'm sure the op knew that the lenient and kind hearted staff would not punish him or close the thread, so, as long as he gets away with it, that's all that matters to him. He and all his super good imaginary internet buddies can now sit around high fiving eachother thinking they are so . Well, I hope that this 15 minutes of feeling superior was worth it. Cause you all showed your true colors when you disrespected Springer.

The issue is learning from this experience of 2012.

You think that the best thing to do is to make a demagogic appeal that it is an affront to the staff to see if lessons can be learned? I think the staff would prefer that lessons be learned.

There are many people that want to learn. They are often those listed as shills and disinfo agents. They attempt to apply reason and thought to a question.

To simply drop the issue is not to learn from it and be destined to repeat the same mistakes in the future.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Nice quote. I started a thread a while back in which a study showed that pointing out the truth to some people causes them to draw back and reject it. It's just the way some people are "wired." Some people naturally latch onto ideas that rebel against whatever they deem to from an authority.

In the study they gave info on the flu and flu shots. A short while after reading the material a good portion of the material was remembered incorrectly and then people assigned the incorrect ideas back to the source, which was the government agency. Efforts to correct the mistakes were rejected.

reply to post by AdAstra

First of all, the "2012" thing wasn't a hoax, which implies a fabrication with intent to deceive.
It was a THEORY, and theories are proved and disproved every day, unless the community supporting it is too orthodox to allow questioning.

They were outlandish hoaxes. The claim that Nibiru was in a photograph that showed a distant well known stellar object is a hoax. The claim that quakes are increasing was a hoax. The claim that volcanoes are increasing was a hoax. The claim that new Mayan codices were found was a hoax. The claim that 2012 was mentioned by ancient Egypt is a hoax. The Rattlesnake prophecy is a hoax. The claim that comet Elenin was going to hit the Earth was a hoax. There were no Mayan prophecies. That was a hoax.

All of these were obvious fabrications with the intent to deceive.

By THEORY you mean speculation, often without any backing evidence. Those rejecting the questioning of these theories are close minded. That is what often happened when I challenged the claims.

Also, what harm has come from it that isn't comparable to equal or much worse harm inflicted on people every day via the media and the bastions of "science"?

A girl killed herself. That's harm. People wasted money on shelters. Some people were quite fearful of the future. Such emotional trauma leads to disease and can shorten lives.

People not only believe but LIVE by false ideas - and sometimes outright hoaxes - every single day.

I'd love to hear some examples. That would be useful in terms of this thread.

There is no scientific discipline that is free of false ideas and misguided theories.

I'd love to hear some examples of this as well. Please be careful to use theory as used in science when discussing scientific disciplines since theory in that realm is not the same as you used the word earlier.

So, I really don't see the reason for such deep concern about a theory that was never presented as anything BUT a theory.

The idea is that people could have rejected almost every 2012 nitwit claim had they had the mental tools to discern between possible and impossible.

reply to post by vkey08


I may be way off base here on your answer, but are you seeing this as some sort of religion in which the person blindly follows what is proscribed despite what events actually unfold?

Please correct me if I am off the mark.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by vkey08

 

I may be way off base here on your answer, but are you seeing this as some sort of religion in which the person blindly follows what is proscribed despite what events actually unfold?

Please correct me if I am off the mark.

Watching some of the sites like Poleshift.ning and the like, yes that is exactly what I am saying Stereo, these people treat it like a religion.

I hope you realise that your thread is aimed at a surprising small number of people.

I doubt there are even 4 people on these forums who believe absolutely everything you are trying to pin on them.

You are dwelling on the issue of trying to disprove your own fabrication, so let me be the first to say "congratulations'....you will always 'win'.

Hooray!

Deluded people prefer to dream.

Maybe they are scared of reality. Maybe they need more attention than they need reality.

reply to post by redreemer

I doubt there are even 4 people on these forums who believe absolutely everything you are trying to pin on them.

First, I am not trying to pin anything on anyone. Sorry if that has come across to you.

The issue is that 2012 was a fairly obvious hoax. Despite that many people defended the claims strongly. It was more than 4, a lot more than 4, a lot more than 500 different posters defended these claims over the course of years.

Not everyone defended every claim. Some defended Nibiru. Some defended the DIA. Some defended celebrity deaths. Some defended the Hopi prophecy. Some defended galactic alignments. Some defended the Elenin claims. Whatever.

Now that all of these claims have been seen to be false including the ascension and 3 days of darkness and UFOs bursting out of mountains, and mega quakes, and Yellowstone, and disclosure, and indigo children, and TWZ, and the list goes on ... now what can be learned?

You are dwelling on the issue of trying to disprove your own fabrication, so let me be the first to say "congratulations'....you will always 'win'.

Sorry. Not sure where this confusion on your part comes from.

What can people that so vocally defended these issues learn? It is possible to come out of this with a means of not falling for similar hoaxes in the future?

reply to post by stereologist

Will the cynics and the sycophantic naysayers learn something about jumping the gun and making false assumptions?

Originally posted by stereologist
1. Quakes are increasing
2. Volcanoes are increasing

I find it offensive to underestimate cataclysms that can happen any time, thus it wouldn't be laughable if anything from inside the Earth had happened and the Mayans had known about it because these interal disasters cannot be predicted.

3. Comets and asteroids will hit the Earth

I agree any space object coming to hit the Earth - if such object had come, it would have been seen and no one would be hiding it. This plus suggesting solar flares, asteroids and Nibiru were wrong to believe in.

4. There will be a consciousness shift

This could rather be a reaction from another event, since no other event happened, this goes along with them.

5. There will be disclosure

Why not? Any MAN MADE event could have happened Dec 21st because one can decide to act on that date.

6. Alien spaceships will come to rescue the few before the Earth is destroyed

Again if not natural and planned on purpose, why would it be impossible?

7. The elite are hiding in bunkers her and there and everywhere

Related to above events, anything controled by the gov may have happened, since it is a matter of wish WHEN. But nothing,

I expected something like UFO disclosure what they are, some world leaders plan put into action but not even that had happened. I never bought the other claims of either space impact, dimensions and Gods descending because nothing suggested that happening other than beliefs.