Will the 2012 believers learn from this experience?

Every few threads someone has to misrepresent the flat earth idea. A long time before there was science people thought the Earth was flat. Then long before there was science people realized the Earth was not flat. People learned.

Today we have 2012. It was an obvious hoax, but that did not stop people from signing onto this hoax and supporting a long list of rather obvious lies and hoaxes. Here is a sample:

1. Quakes are increasing
2. Volcanoes are increasing
3. Comets and asteroids will hit the Earth
4. There will be a consciousness shift
5. There will be disclosure
6. Alien spaceships will come to rescue the few before the Earth is destroyed
7. The elite are hiding in bunkers her and there and everywhere
8. Unknown planets will destroy the Earth
9. Three days of darkness

All of these of these failed.
All of these were clearly hoaxes and mainly based on outright lies.

Some people clearly saw these as false ideas and hoaxes. Others did not.

What lessons can be learned from this experience. How can the message that hoaxes are being perpetrated be better distributed? How can those tricked into accepting these lies be helped to avoid doing that in the future?

Originally posted by stereologist





What lessons can be learned from this experience. How can the message that hoaxes are being perpetrated be better distributed? How can those tricked into accepting these lies be helped to avoid doing that in the future?

Perhaps if we formed a Prayer Circle and prayed for these poor misled souls. Or we could burn some sage over them and cast out the devils that inhabit their brains.

well i see the children still gloat at what they see as a victory, but people still fail to see that some believes based their faith and beliefs on an instinct or a gut feeling, ours not everyone being gullible.you don't know how bad i would like to see the faces of some of these people as the slightest sign of a world ending. being open minded and following instincts and feelings are the ones with some of their primal human instinct intact. i guess we should be grateful, what if it happens tomorrow? at least those of us that are prepared would be the survivors, not the skeptics, i guess that makes us superior being, better prepared and proven wrong then unprepared and wrong.

reply to post by stereologist

Some of them are still refusing to "let it go". They simply cannot accept the fact that they were, and are, wrong. Denial and self delusion are defense mechanisms that many turn to rather than admit to themselves that they have "been had" and aren't as special as they thought they were. We can't really blame them for something that is just part of human nature. Haven't we all been in denial at some point about one thing or another? Hopefully they will recover soon.

I hardly think burning sage is going to assist learning.

Consider the claims that dead celebrities were actually faking their deaths to make it easier for them to head into shelters before whatever happened. One to two years ago that was a defended position. People made long lists of those that were not really dead.

Nobody was faking being dead.
Nobody was heading into a shelter.
None of this was a strong indicator that in 2012 a monumental disaster would wipe out most of the people on the face of the Earth.

Can similar claims be recognized as hoaxes by those that were duped into thinking there was merit to these claims?

reply to post by I1Am1Ready1Are1You


Being open minded does not mean accepting every fairy tale that is put out there. Just because some dingbat video claims that there are 2 Suns where 1 used to be does not make it so. Accepting that claim does not make a person open minded.

Being prepared is good. Preparing for events that are impossible or improbable is not sensible. Should we be prepared for disasters. Yes. Should we be prepared for the unlikely event that most of the human population turns into flesh eating zombies? No. People that are preparing for that are wasting their resources.

Also learn the difference between skeptic and scoffer. They are not the same.

reply to post by littled16


I'm thinking beyond the point at which there is acceptance of being wrong.

Wouldn't everything be better if there were a way to get people to open their minds to the evidence? The evidence suggests that a story is wrong, right, or some position in between. How can people learn from the 2012 shenanigans?

reply to post by stereologist

They won't! They didn't learn from Y2K, from Harrold Camping, and they wont learn from 2012.

There have been doomsday predictions for about as long as there have been people. None of them have ever panned out, and yet people still believe the next one that comes along. If there were some way to get people to listen to reason when it comes to this sort of thing I think someone would have found it already. Irrational fear is just part of the human psyche and some are just overly susceptible to it. I don't believe it can be stopped, but I do wish someone would prove me wrong.

reply to post by stereologist

Also learn the difference between skeptic and scoffer. They are not the same.

A skeptic is someone who questions a resulting conclusion from a stated premise with the conclusion being unknown to anyone.

A scoffer is someone who ridicules the previous person whom the skeptic questioned once the conclusion is known to everyone.

I would label you a scoffer and not a skeptic.

the date has already been pushed back to dec 23 by some backpedaling "archaeologists" so i would say there is no lesson learned, nor will there ever be sadly.

reply to post by littled16


I do agree with you that a remarkably large percentage of the population is going to fall time and time again fro false claims especially end of the world claims. The evidence is quite clear on that,

Do you think that part of the believers might learn to be skeptical?

I have learned that sometimes you have to let people believe what they want to believe and whether or not they learn from it does not matter.

What does matter is that we recognize that some people have to focus on a belief. Religion is a good example. We may not agree, but it gives them focus and a sense of purpose.

That sense of purpose is different for us all......so who are we to judge?

reply to post by kyviecaldges

I would label you a scoffer and not a skeptic.

Then you'd be wrong.

I am a skeptic and simple analysis of any of the nonsense suggested for 2012 would be easily seen as false.

What is interesting is this is your first 2012 post or at least your first in a while. Where is the basis for your claim to label me a scoffer?

reply to post by stereologist

What lessons can be learned from this experience.

That some members have shown Springer a great disrespect by ignoring his request to maintain the high ground and remain focused on the philosophy of ATS, but instead they knock up post after post that carries the theme of "I told you so".

It is no wonder that the older ATS members are becoming disenfranchised with this site lately.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Would you consider a difference to be that religion is in the realm of can't prove, can't disprove while 2012 claims in general were decidable?

For example, the claim that Gary Coleman was not really dead since he was one of the elite was a decidable issue. He was not an elite as can be seen from his monographed coffin.

reply to post by Sublimecraft


I understand the I told you so posts. It has been years of snarkey commentary along the lines of you are shills, dupes, brain dead, brain washed lackeys of the illuminati. The same purveyors of doom and other nonsense claimed that those showing evidence against were close minded fools.

It is hard after years of such nastiness and calls for wait and see to not reply, we told you for years and not the wait and see is that you were wrong.

That rhetoric will die down and much faster than the years of posting of hoaxes associated with 2012.

When the rhetoric dies down it is time for lessons to be learned. Those attempting to show that this was a hoax need to find better ways of assisting others in learning. Those that fell for the hoaxes need to learn how to discern between hoaxes and plausible ideas.

Dude... Do you know how annoying it is that you made this thread when the day has not ended yet?

I dont know... There's just something very ugly about someone who cannot wait to brag about how right they were and how wrong someone else was... And no amount of intelligence can cover up such an ugly thing.

I'm not a 2012 "believer", check my posts, I'm just sharing my opinion here.

reply to post by stereologist

Would you consider a difference to be that religion is in the realm of can't prove, can't disprove while 2012 claims in general were decidable?

In fact, no. 2012 claims were not decidable.

We have no way of proving that God does not exist. We also have no way of knowing when the world will or will not end. It could end tomorrow.....do you know 100% whether it will or not?

No.

Also, who's to say that what I believe does not fall into the same category. It's all about perspective and I find it best not to judge, because it is inevitable that someday they will be right.

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by stereologist

 

What lessons can be learned from this experience.

That some members have shown Springer a great disrespect by ignoring his request to maintain the high ground and remain focused on the philosophy of ATS, but instead they knock up post after post that carries the theme of "I told you so".

It is no wonder that the older ATS members are becoming disenfranchised with this site lately.

Yeah, now that you mention it, Springer and crew work their TAILS off day in and day out to bring us this great site, but that doesn't matter one iota to people like...well, you know...they just HAVE to score that one little extra point in a fools game of one-upsmanship that nobody will care about in a week... I guess it REALLY DOES matter that much to them that they don't give a crap that they were requested by the admins to take the high ground on this one. Oh no...bottom feeders like this just love wallowing around down in the muck and grime, no matter who's toes they have to step on to get down there.

I'm sure the op knew that the lenient and kind hearted staff would not punish him or close the thread, so, as long as he gets away with it, that's all that matters to him. He and all his super good imaginary internet buddies can now sit around high fiving eachother thinking they are so . Well, I hope that this 15 minutes of feeling superior was worth it. Cause you all showed your true colors when you disrespected Springer.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Sublimecraft

 

I understand the I told you so posts. It has been years of snarkey commentary along the lines of you are shills, dupes, brain dead, brain washed lackeys of the illuminati. The same purveyors of doom and other nonsense claimed that those showing evidence against were close minded fools.

It is hard after years of such nastiness and calls for wait and see to not reply, we told you for years and not the wait and see is that you were wrong.

That rhetoric will die down and much faster than the years of posting of hoaxes associated with 2012.

When the rhetoric dies down it is time for lessons to be learned. Those attempting to show that this was a hoax need to find better ways of assisting others in learning. Those that fell for the hoaxes need to learn how to discern between hoaxes and plausible ideas.

Exactly this. Skeptics have had to put up with fear mongering nonsense for years, we deserve at least a couple days of "I told you so." I think it is more directed at the hardcore doomsayers who didn't think twice about spreading misinformation, rather than those who had genuine concern or curiosity.


I kind of understand the thought process of someone who hopes for some kind of major event. I think it is because folks see how horrible this world can be, and desperately want to see it changed. However, I don't understand the lies and disinfo. The Nancy Lieders of the world are the ones who deserve to be relentlessly and mercilessly ridiculed.