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NRA wants armed guards in schools

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posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Camperguy

Originally posted by phoenixlights321
So dumb on so many levels.


So is this security guard going to be in every single place at the same time?

What if this security guard decides to go nuts and kill everyone?
What if the security guard knows the person that's about shoot things up and doesn't want to shoot him?
What if the security guard's power goes to his/her head and he starts threatening kids for small scuffles?
What if a few kids that don't have guns decide to jump a security guard and now they have a gun to go take out some classmates?
Honestly, if some kid is running around with a gun, it would probably be pretty easy for some kid to distract the security guard and shoot him while he's looking away. Hell, the kid with the gun could even say, 'omg, some kid was chasing me down the street and he has a gun! go get him!' kid sneaks into gun with school.
It is not easy to shoot someone, especially a kid.
I still can't believe it would be suggested that principals/some teachers would have access to guns to protect students. Because having guns on school property would never EVER be stolen by sneaky students. Not as if a teacher or principal could lose their mind and go on a shooting spree. Not as if a principal or teacher would ever be absolutely horrified at shooting at a student that they may have known for many years. Yup, nothing that could go wrong there.

There are so many things wrong with this.

Keeping guns as far away from school is the best solution. NRA, you are so incredibly clueless it is painful.


Having an officer at a school would be a deterent for a criminal, he would think about going after an easier target but at least the kids would have a chance to have someone stop the criminal if it got that far. Guns are illegal to have at school now, it didnt stop that kid. It also wouldnt stop a teacher from bringing in a gun from home and shooting their students. Thankfully that has never happened.As far as training for the security officer, I dont think the NRA ment sending a 18yr old minimum wage Walmart security gaurd with a gun to a school. Probably a Law enforcement type or someone who had a little more training than close your eyes and pull the trigger. Yes Im sure a gang of kids could jump the cop and take his gun and go on a rampage but if thats the kind of school then theres already guns in it. I can see you think everyone with a gun is a lunatic waiting to go on a shooting rampage and thats too bad. I used a handgun to stop three men from entering my 3 year old daughters window in the middle of the night I shutter to think what would have happened if they got in and I wasnt armed, Im a big guy with hand to hand combat training in the Military but Im not Chuck Norris. I called the police, it took them 30min to get there,it was a busy night. I am also a little leary on teachers being armed, my wife is a teacher. It takes years of schooling and training to be proficient not only in the physical skills of accuracy but the mental aspects that go along with it , Most people cant handle having shot someone even if it is justifiable.Now I hope it doesnt get to the point like in Isreal where people were attacking schools and school busses on a regular basis. Then like they did the teachers will have to be trained and armed. It has worked there.

Bill

Having one security guard is not going to deter someone from bringing a gun to school to shoot it up, but keep thinking if it makes you feel better. How's that death penalty holding up preventing people from harming others? Not helping is it? Those kids that are thinking that way are in such a state that they do not care about death.

Edit: I'm very happy that you were able to protect your daughter.


My main point is that I sure as hell don't think it will be a deterrent to a kid in such an extremely emotionally volatile state from committing such a crime. Some students might even feel like it would be a game to shoot a security guard. Seriously, when would it end though? One security for an entire school? Then there's a shooting and what do they do? Have a security guard at every single entrance?
edit on 21-12-2012 by phoenixlights321 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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So what happens when the armed guard decides to snap one day?

It has been known to happen...

Body guard goes on shooting spree

Ex-guard goes on shooting spree

Prison guard goes on shooting spree


edit on 21/12/12 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:09 PM
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This same discussion, Virginia Tech, Norway, Columbine, deja vue all over again.

The parents in this Country need to step up, no matter if they have money or not, and treat your kids like there your life. Get off your Facebook and Twitter, quit acting like your 20 again (UR NOT) and get back to raisen ur kids.

Money is not that important for you to neglect ur kids, Sex is not that important to neglect your kids, Drugs are not that important to neglect your kids, etc.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
They made some very good points.


When? Where?


All through the video.


Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
We protect banks with armed guards.


It frankly takes in idiot to ignore the fact the the BANKS are one of the TOP targets for criminals seeking easy money, because by definition they contain a large amount of cash on most day of the week.


Frankly, it takes an idiot to ignore the fact that schools are a prime target for terrorists and whackos, because they, by definition, contain large numbers of defenseless targets.


Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
All the politicians in Washington are protected with armed guards. The president is protected with armed guards.


Again, it takes a idiot to ignore the fact that politicians and the President are targets of political extremists, who wish to extract a political result from their attacks.


Again, it takes an idiot to not see that children worldwide are targeted by terrorists all the time, who wish to extract a political result from their attacks.


Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Are our children less valuable than any of those?


In most cases, they are less valuable to attackers, while being the most precious value to ourselves. There are exceptions when a NUT goes and shoots up the school.


No, they are not less valuable, because they are frequently attacked. How many schools, buses, and so forth must be attacked before you get it? Check this list, and learn from it.

Terrorist and Criminal Attacks Targeting Children

If the law requires that children are in the schools, then the law MUST make those schools as safe as possible.

My kids, of course, are VERY safe at school. Their teacher is armed. That would be me. I worry about my grandchildren (yes, also in school), though, and all of the other kids that are totally unprotected.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by phoenixlights321
 


What I gathered from what that person was saying is once we start posting armed guards everywhere, where do we stop? At some point.. have you ever driven through mexico? when I was driving down the Baja I was shocked at all the check-points with all of the soldiers carrying machine guns.. at what point do we do something other than throw more guns at the guns?

The guns themselves aren't the problem... but once we have militia roaming the streets we will become what we fear becoming.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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So people are okay with it being more of a police state, as long as Guns are allowed?

how does this define common sense or logic?



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 





Most of the places you just mentioned already have armed security.


Really? Um, could you point out just one? I live in Houston, Texas. Cowboy country. None have armed security. NONE.




So what is your point? Nothing is ever 100% but you are an idiot if you arn't willing to try.


So, would you be an idiot if you aren't willing to try stricter gun control laws?




I see now you are incapable of rational thought.


Ahh, I see. Someone that does not agree with you is 'incapable of rational thoughts'.

Do you work for Fox? Are you physically here in 2012, cause your way of thinking was left behind in 1952.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 
Interesting point of view from a Parent/Grandparent who cares. Protect ur own.

The others are on there own. For clarification I agree with you and your lucky your there Teacher and you know where your Grandkids are at. I home school for a reason.


edit on 21-12-2012 by hoochymama because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-12-2012 by hoochymama because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by yorkshirelad
 



Originally posted by yorkshirelad
"Armed guards at a primary school". If this was a headline for some third world country we would be feeling sorry for the necessity but the USA !!!!! Come on take a step back and look at how utterly sad that is.

The day you NEED armed guards at a primary school is the day to hang your heads in collective shame.

Is the drug of a pistol on your hip that addictive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I would much rather hang my head in shame and prevent children from coming into contact with murderers. The other option is to righteously ban protecting children from humanity and shrugging your shoulders when that plan fails.

Why is it so hard for the short-sighted to grasp that armed protectors at schools is merely a contingency plan. It allows adults to attempt to protect their charges from the lunatics that would kill them. This would be the short term plan. The long term plan would be to tackle the reasons why these shooters decide to go on a rampage in the first place.

But, no. Some People would rather leave them as sitting ducks. In the process, these people attain a level of self-importance that is meaningless as much as it is effective.

Refusing to protect children on the grounds of twisted righteousness is pathetic.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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Don't need armed gaurds, just arm the teachers. I'm sure they would like a little more respect from the little heathens they have to teach in public schools everyday.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by ErEhWoN
 


I do agree with not glorifying the killer. I think the media gets way to involve in situations like this. As I believe media puts their own spin to make you see it how they want you too. As far as the mentally disturbed, I believe there are way to many disorders that give people excuses for their actions. You have doctors willing to hand out meds for any little thing. Used to be if you had a mental disorder they would lock you away. Maybe not such a bad idea in cases like this. But society itself is to blame for all the issues. Atleast I feel this way. We are in a violence driven world. Not just in the US, everywhere. Just seems the US has more lazy people sitting on their butts watching the crap on tv than other countries do. Just a thought, I just hate blaming guns like they are people. I just seems like a bad excuse to say it's the guns fault he killed people. You know what I mean?



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by Darth_Prime
So people are okay with it being more of a police state, as long as Guns are allowed?

how does this define common sense or logic?


People are saying that the children should be protected, in a place the law requires them to be. Personally, I would have the teachers and school staff carry. Concealed would be best, so those thinking of pulling some nonsense would not know who could take them down.

Protecting kids at school doesn't mean a police state. It simply means treating them as human beings of value. Clearly, the nuts and terrorists target kids. See the link I posted just a bit ago.

Again, if we protect banks, sporting events, politicians, and so forth with armed guards, why not schools?

The government requires school for all children. REQUIRES it. Parents can either place them in public school, or pay for private (which many can't afford), or home school (which isn't possible for everyone). Then, the government declares schools to be "gun free zones". The shooters don't mind that rule a bit. They go anyway, and they know they go in unopposed.

I do NOT think armed guards every place is a good idea. I think citizens should be armed. Let us defend ourselves. People already do, in many places around the country, and almost never do we hear of a legally carrying armed citizen flying off the handle and killing people. Instead, we see lower crime rates. Every single time. We don't need the police for that; we can handle it ourselves. Legally, under rules for self defense, but it can be done. It has been done. No lawlessness required. No police state required. Simple exercise of our 2'nd Amendment rights.

The Swiss have guns as a matter of course, and they don't see much of these issues. I used to work with a very fine gentleman from Switzerland, who thought the gun control stuff in the United States was insane.
edit on 21-12-2012 by LadyGreenEyes because: added comments



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:23 PM
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Having one security guard is not going to deter someone from bringing a gun to school to shoot it up, but keep thinking if it makes you feel better. How's that death penalty holding up preventing people from harming others? Not helping is it? Those kids that are thinking that way are in such a state that they do not care about death.


It would deter most, but even so it would have given the kids a chance, better than none. Remember the kid shot himself when the Police arrived on scene, that should say something.

Thanks about my daughter, I hope no one has to go through that experience.

Bill



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 





They should have been saying this ages ago, but I can imagine why they didn't. Look at some of the responses now, when it's more clear than ever that this is needed.


So when do we put armed guards on the school buses?

Or armed life guards at the pools and beaches?

Or armed zookeepers at the zoo?

Armed cashiers at Wal-Mart?

Armed priest at church?

Armed guards to guard the armed guards?

Armed guards in your house to protect them from you?

Armed guards at work to protect you from me and me from you?

Armed guards at the playground where kids play?

Armed doctors at the clinic?

Armed Toys R Us clerks?

Armed crossing guards?



WHERE DOES IT END??

WHO WATCHES THE WATCHERS??



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 





Frankly, it takes an idiot to ignore the fact that schools are a prime target for terrorists and whackos, because they, by definition, contain large numbers of defenseless targets


I am surprised we haven't had any incidents of someone yelling "Allah Ahkbar" just before detonating himself in the middle of a lunchroom full of kids yet. In fact, i'm betting someone over there is taking notes on the lack of security in our public school systems in the U.S. and making plans, because if you can think of it, i guarantee you they already have thought about it and nothing worse to terrorize americans than blowing up schools and daycares full of little kids. That would make 9/11 look like a mousefart compared to Hiroshima.
edit on 21-12-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:26 PM
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A lot of people are framing this wrong. This isn't about protecting the children vs not protecting the children. Obviously everyone wants the children to be safe. This is about whether a policeman inside school (although the NRA guy talked about volunteers, which is even more ludicrous) would be effective in protecting our children, and the answer is no. Unless you have one in every room at the ready all the time, anything could still happen (you just need to shoot the policemen first if there's one or two..), and EVEN STILL it's entirely possible for someone to manage to shoot a room of kids. The kids will never be able to be 100% safe. And I don't think this community of all communities wants to have these people (if they're volunteers, they've just been given a lot of new power, this is bad) near our children, no less ever-present in their school lives.

Trying to attack this problem from the mental health perspective would probably be more effective.
edit on 21-12-2012 by rational1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:26 PM
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It seems like people are asking.. since guns aren't the problem, won't throwing more guns at the problem be like putting a cast on a bone that won't heal because it has an infection.


And will it be armed guards for a trial period or just vote them in all over so we can't take it back like with the wire-tapping we were blessed with when the Patriot Act was enacted.
edit on 21-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Darth_Prime
So people are okay with it being more of a police state, as long as Guns are allowed?

how does this define common sense or logic?


Their Americans remember, and we all know how Americans feel about their long metallic projectile throwers... do anything you can to fix a problem, just dont even for an instant take their gun god away from them to do so.



(And yes I know the majority of Americans arent pro gun nuts but damn if the pro gun nuts arent loud enough to make it feel that way)

Why the hell would you need something like an assault rifle anyway?.. Are American moose and deer packing heat now days?
Only type of gun a normal person would ever need is one single gun, ie a hunting rifle, that can get them some food with a single shot and some patience, anything else is either a pointless toy or a major over compensation for something missing in their life.

But i guess you gotta cling to that archaic 2nd amendment right.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by ErEhWoN
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 





They should have been saying this ages ago, but I can imagine why they didn't. Look at some of the responses now, when it's more clear than ever that this is needed.


So when do we put armed guards on the school buses?

Or armed life guards at the pools and beaches?

Or armed zookeepers at the zoo?

Armed cashiers at Wal-Mart?

Armed priest at church?

Armed guards to guard the armed guards?

Armed guards in your house to protect them from you?

Armed guards at work to protect you from me and me from you?

Armed guards at the playground where kids play?

Armed doctors at the clinic?

Armed Toys R Us clerks?

Armed crossing guards?


WHERE DOES IT END??

WHO WATCHES THE WATCHERS??


No, armed citizens, protecting themselves, and their friend, family, and neighbors. This already happens all over the nation, regularly. Armed teachers and staff in schools, though, is a GOOD plan. The government requires the kids to be there, then passes laws leaving them defenseless.

With a concealed carry permit, one can carry a gun to all those places you mentioned, unless they have "no guns" signs posted. Then, people could defend themselves. Please note that the theater shooting was in a no guns theater. Every mall I have ever seen posts no guns signs.

Look up the statistics between gun ownership, easy carrying, and crime. The more gun control, the higher crime. The more people can carry easily and legally, the less crime.

This is a no-brainer. It is about We the People keeping ourselves safe, instead of hoping some government paid employee can manage. Even the best police forces are understaffed, and cannot get to places on time in more cases than not. The criminals will ALWAYS be armed. It is only common sense that their intended targets are as well.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by Fireman205253
 





I just seems like a bad excuse to say it's the guns fault he killed people. You know what I mean?


No one is blaming the gun for killing people.

The gun just gives any coward the quickest and most efficient way of killing mass amounts people.

Can't do it with a knife, or screwdriver, or hammer as quickly or efficiently or completely as you can with an AR-15.



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