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4 Dead, 2 State Troopers Injured in Blair County Shooting

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posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Zcustosmorum

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


Maths tells me that less citizens being armed equals more potential victims of crazies that are armed.


Maths should also tell you, that less guns on the street means less crazies have the chance to get them


Yep just like it worked so well for everything else that they ban, example drugs. Your a fool to think that taking the guns away from law abiding citizens is gonna mean less guns. As many before have stated just take a look at our next door neighbor Mexico those drug lords don't seem to find any problems finding guns on the black market. Especially when our govt is handing them out to them.




posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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Good to see they shot him.

I know it's not much, especially when innocent people die - but somehow I can't help but feel that it's "at least" "something", when these freaks of nature do not get to take their own lives, but instead are killed by someone else, before they can complete their disgusting work.

It's not much, no. But it's something. And perhaps the families of the victims can in some tiny measure be helped to get past the pain of this, by knowing the police shot the motherf....



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


La Pierre? I saw that press conference on BBC news earlier on today. You are right of course, he spouted an awful lot of bloody nonsense about computer games, and the media and movies and so on. He was also interupted by a different type of ignorant oaf with a sign saying "NRA KILLING OUR KIDS" in white, on a red background, who was manhandled from the room.

First, Lanza was not a member of the NRA, so that argument is sort of a failiure right from the begining. But the key thing is that in all the passion of the protestor, and all the put on, play to the camera fustration of La Pierre, both have utterly missed the real issue in the USA right now. From an objective, outsiders perspective, it seems to me that America is incapable of realising that these shootings shouldnt be happening even if everyone from the age of eighteen to eighty is packing, twenty four seven.

The reason that these terrifying things are happening, and in such massive profusion at the moment, is that America has had successive governments which have refused to account for the growing number of psychologically damaged persons who are walking about the place. Even if the USA contained not one single, legally owned firearm, the disturbed and dangerous amongst the population would still manage to either get hold of a gun, or figure out some way of causing massive damage to numerous people.

My own nation has had some bloody terrible moments, which could and should have been prevented by better management of the mentaly ill, and the challenge to public saftey that some sufferers of mental malady represent. However, most of those did not involve firearms. There have been child molestations, fatal hammer attacks, women who have murdered thier children, men who have murdered thier whole families, and they managed these things without firearms. The outcry when these things happen, and could be avoided, is the same no matter what methods are used by the perpetrators of these crimes. Wether they set fires, dominate thier prey sexually, wether they use hammers, knives, fists, poisons, or any other method, it is not the weapon, but the illness that causes the user to be dangerous, that cause the problem.

Firearms as part of organised crime, are like cheese as part of a ploughmans lunch, so thats always going to be a problem in ANY nation. But if the problem is that people keep shooting places up for no good reason, America is going to have to wake up to the ugly truth, that it is the people walking around with a head full of sickness without being either assisted or removed from society, who are doing the killing.

Now, people say that firearms and the right to bear them is essential for home defense. I would argue that a blade of approximately the distance between your elbow and your fist would be a better home defense weapon. For a start, a gun can launch a round through a wall or door. That means that collateral damage is always a concern, in a way that will never be the case with a well swung blade. Also, unlike the firearm, the ability to weild a blade effectively is something that requires fitness and training, which, if taken up to the same degree as range time is in the US, would improve the fitness of the population by hundreds of times. Furthermore, the distances that are involved in defense of an average home, are many times less than the optimum effective range of even the most pathetic pistol, and SO much smaller than the effective range of a rifle, that the argument for thier use in this scenario is utterly without merit.

But... I am not suggesting that people swap thier guns for a mans weapon. I think if your consitution contains a right, it should be upheld. But I think that if the USA wants to keep its guns, then it must prevent the mentally ill from getting hold of them. I think that it ought to be illegal for any householder to have gun ownership, unless they install measures to prevent mentally unstable people from laying hands on the firearms they have. Biometric locks, retinal scanner based locks, sixteen digit codes, voice print locks ... all of them could be used to keep dangerous gear out of the hands of loonies.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


Agree with the majority of your points mate and of course guns will never be completely outlawed over the pond, but strict laws must be put in place and imo, it's gonna require a huge over-haul of the current system.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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Maybe someone got upset the end did not come?



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


I think the media has to take it down a notch or else they might be liable to start the mob mentality seeking fame.

If being crazy isnt enough to make you dumb things, the media giving them 24/7 coverage might be enough to take one of these nut jobs over the edge who otherwise just bothered the locals with crazy crap.

Gun bans only ban guns from legal carrying citizens. They also keep criminals as the most well armed people on the proverbial "streets"......
edit on 21-12-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


edit on 21-12-2012 by ganjoa because: Nevermind - already covered by another poster - should've read the entire thread first



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by ganjoa
reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


Which "automatic weapons in which people have easy access to" are you referring to? Anything specific you'd care to share with us on your knowledge of these automatic weapons?

ganjoa


I corrected myself, SEMI-automatic and regardless it isn't even the real issue, how many rounds you can get off in the time given would be more accurate.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


Yes, and that is the difference between semi-automatic and automatic, how many rounds you can get off in a given time.

There is a gigantic difference between the two, you can't just mix them up and say "oh it doesn't matter anyway". It does matter, greatly.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by sputniksteve
reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


Yes, and that is the difference between semi-automatic and automatic, how many rounds you can get off in a given time.

There is a gigantic difference between the two, you can't just mix them up and say "oh it doesn't matter anyway". It does matter, greatly.


No, it does when the majority of the mass gun killers in the U.S. obtained their weapons legally. Typo-errors are not really a valid issue imo.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 

I read your correction.
Have you ever heard of Jerry Miculek?
From Wiki:
Jerry Miculek is a speed shooter and competition shooting instructor. He is renowned as one of the fastest revolver shooters in the world, emptying a five-shot revolver in 0.57 seconds in a group the size of a playing card.

It's actually a S&W revolver in .45 ACP. He can reload and shoot 10 rounds in about 2 seconds.
So the answer to your question is roughly 5 to 10 rounds a second - which would be 3-600 rounds a minute, comparable to an automatic weapon.

ganjoa
edit on 21-12-2012 by ganjoa because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 





but strict laws must be put in place and imo, it's gonna require a huge over-haul of the current system.


What "strict laws" do you suggest that would stop every future firearm killing? What SPECIFIC changes to "the system" would keep psychos from murdering people? Please enlighten me.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Carreau
 


Heres some that might work. First, if you have a history of mental illness, you arent allowed to be within ten feet of a building that contains firearms? How about home owners with mentally ill relatives being forced to take outrageous measures to prevent those relatives from EVER getting access to the weaponry? Howabout fingerprint readers linked to the safety catches of the weapons, that make it impossible for the safety to be switched to ready position, if the owners fingerprint has not been placed against the reader?

And how about forcing local governments to get crazies out of society and into institutions where they belong?



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 





Now, people say that firearms and the right to bear them is essential for home defense. I would argue that a blade of approximately the distance between your elbow and your fist would be a better home defense weapon. For a start, a gun can launch a round through a wall or door. That means that collateral damage is always a concern, in a way that will never be the case with a well swung blade. Also, unlike the firearm, the ability to weild a blade effectively is something that requires fitness and training, which, if taken up to the same degree as range time is in the US, would improve the fitness of the population by hundreds of times. Furthermore, the distances that are involved in defense of an average home, are many times less than the optimum effective range of even the most pathetic pistol, and SO much smaller than the effective range of a rifle, that the argument for thier use in this scenario is utterly without merit.



Is that little rant what you would tell someone who is in a wheel chair, someone elderly, someone small and frail? Sorry no gun for you only MANLY knifes are allowed. Obviously you don't know about different types of ammunition that DO NOT penetrate through walls. Maybe some research before a ill informed post?



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Carreau
 


Heres some that might work. First, if you have a history of mental illness, you arent allowed to be within ten feet of a building that contains firearms? How about home owners with mentally ill relatives being forced to take outrageous measures to prevent those relatives from EVER getting access to the weaponry? Howabout fingerprint readers linked to the safety catches of the weapons, that make it impossible for the safety to be switched to ready position, if the owners fingerprint has not been placed against the reader?

And how about forcing local governments to get crazies out of society and into institutions where they belong?


There are strict gun laws in place that are meant to prevent these very things. As far as the fingerprint reader goes- IMO that is a terrible idea. If I own the gun and am at work and my home is invaded, my wife is rendered helpless because of this feature.

If people are driving through a 25mph zone at 55mph, the solution is not lowering the speed limit to 20mph. The solution is to enforce the law that is already in place.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by Carreau
 


I know there are different kinds of ammunition, but there are NO types of ammo that can be stopped by a single ply sheet of plasterboard, which is all the wall you get in the most low cost housing in the USA. So, ill informed, not really mate, just fully aware of what does and doesnt exist.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


I noticed you ignored my first point, what would you tell someone who is not physically able to use a knife in self defense?



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Carreau
 


I would tell thier family to get thier acts together and provide an able bodied member of the family to do the protective bit, like people USED to do back when humanity had itself a shred of honour, decency or respect for its elders.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


Most low cost housing in the US has walls that are 8" cinder block. This is standard for most housing projects. So, yes, ill-informed.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by micmerci
 


Most, but no where near all. That doent apply to older buildings that were built before those building codes were written, and it doesnt apply to hastily knocked up buildings that have only qualified for thier habitable status because someone got paid off to look the other way when the walls went up, and you arent telling me that never happened!





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