Damn, thats sad to hear, had to be a horrible way to go

Sad? They're chinese, most people here who keep up on foriegn politics would say Good Ridance.

It is proof of the failure of communism.

they're still human beings. there political differences have nothing to do with them dying or there sub failing. only a cold blodded asshole who can't get accept people who are differnt them themselves say "Good Ridance"

i am not a communist, but i don't hate the chinese because they are. people like you HKoT make me sick.

You live at most 150 years and then you are FORCED to die whether you like it or not.

They are not humans they are Wraiths, serving a lord they can not see, an inhuman master that swallows the lives of all it touches.

Until they learn that their lord sees their lives as valueless, I will not see their lives in any more worth, then their lord.

It's all right, when you are forced to fight them with your blood you'll hate them too.

No one can "love" everyone, some people are just the polar opposites of what others stand for.

Now maybe you can look past the fact that they would destroy your way of life if their leaders simply thought that they wouldn't die in the process.

But I can't see past that fact, they are a dangerous beast, and should be treated as such, just as to them we are the same, and they do treat us as such, but then I guess you never go far from the tour guides at the Great Wall.

Tolkien was actually quite right, with his experiences in WWI, the world is full of Wraiths.

People who have no morals themselves, who will stand up not for their beleifs, but the beliefs of their "masters". And from this has come, Nazism, Communism.

And when America tries to put down these "dictators" these Saurons, the rest of the gebbeth-like world comes to their aid and say we are the bad guys.

Of course, Evil does not rule until by Good's own hand, does Good slay it's strongest, in the name of popularity.

It may not be popular to disdane the Chinese, but the day will come.

[Edited on 5-5-2003 by HKoT]

Strange, the Germans had that pretty well worked out with their U-boats back in WW 2. I am not aware of any u-boat loses due to this type of malfunction (usually they were sunk because of the big hole in the side from the depth charge.) It sounds more plausible if the sub had a snorkle and they had dived below the depth limit of the snorkle. I have to double check, but I think both the German u-boats and the US Gato class subs had interlocks on them so you started to dive the diesels were automatically shut off. If you are in a crash dive, then that is one less thing to worry about. Of course it does point out that the military equipment generated in the communist countries were lacking in safety features standard in military equipment which were built in western countries. (Even the nasty Nazi's paid attention to crew safety and comfort.)

Well jagd you have to remember we're dealing with an Inhuman "beast" here.

They very well may just be covering for some other failure, afterall they didn't take pictures of the crew in their calm positions now did they?

All though? Could it have been contrary and rather a monoxide leak then a snorkel problem?

I've never heard of a Deisel running underwater...ever...snorkel or no.

The Germans were preparing one the "Type -27" but that was that, if they could run on deisel underwater then there'd be no point in surfacing.

But like-wise there'd be no point in being a sub because we could hear them from LA.

What idiot uses Deisels? Oh that's right, inhuman machines more focused on serving an "ideal" then the people.

It is very strange, and just as strange that the Chinese have acknowledged that it happened.
The submarine (according to local gossip: it was from where I live) has been brought back and we were all aware of it around the 20th when there were planes flying all through the day, day after day.
Interestingly, this class of sub is in fact an upgraded U-Boat design and the cause given above does seem entirely unlikely.
If there're any good rumours I'll post them

Yes Kriegsmarine did have u-boats that ran diesels underwater (Type 21 I believe). That what the snorkle was for. The problem was that waves could momentarily cover the snorkle (which had a closing device that would keep water out of the engines). The problem was that the diesel would suck some air out of the crew compartment causing the poping of ears associated with quick change in air pressure. The crews who survived the war always complained about how uncomfortable these boats were when running on snorkles because of that. The allies spent a lot of time developing radars that could detect the snorkle of a submerged u-boat (which they we able to). But even these boats had to run on batteries if they had to dive below periscope depth. Considering the safety record of subs made in communist regimes, I still believe it is probably the result of the lack of safety devices and standards. Remember the Kursk was lost because the torpedoes used concentrated hydrogen peroxide (T-stoff). This stuff is pretty unstable even with stablizers and will explode it it comes in contact with the right chemicals (as what happened with the Kursk). Knowing the problems associated with T-stoff, I was suprised to learn that the Russians still had the stuff on any of their subs. T-stoff was the oxidant used in the Walter rocket engine of the ME-163. Several ME-163's were lost in explosions of the rocket due basically unstable nature of T-stoff.

"Sad? They're chinese, most people here who keep up on foriegn politics would say Good Ridance. "

If they are bigots perhaps, a human life is a human life and that had to be a very unpleasant way to die. Perhaps if I said "Oh thats awesome" You would've said how can you say that Lysergic, that's just awful, they were human beings. But rest well for you get to hide behind your monitor and cast your racist remarks in safety. Killing is killing wether done for duty, profit or fun. Which I think you'd claim is funny because "haha, they are just some rotten chinese right" I imagine deep down you are a coward, would never utter half the crap you post here in public, I almost feel sorry for you.

The Karma Wheel turns slowly my friend.

well said, Lysergic.
and the logic of this provocative babble: The Shuttle is proof of the failure of Capitalism? The Turkish earthquake is proof of the failure of Islam? The collapse of the Argentine economy is proof of the failure of Catholicism?
They are not all locked up.

It doesn't matter, there are communist a**holes and there are capitalist a**holes. Most disasters occur because some a**hole in charge doesn't want to hear about what can go wrong and heed the warning signs.

What idiot uses Deisels? Oh that's right, inhuman machines more focused on serving an "ideal" then the people. Posted by HKoT, Hammerite, 5POF, FM, who the hell knows?

Dude, you are working on getting banned for what? The 4th, 5th time?

(I noticed that you backed off when I challenged you to the quiz...)

Inhuman machines that deserve to die, right? You consider them stupid do you? Sort of like a subhuman race?

I would remind you that was the thinking of the Nazis... (except that the Nazis actually exercised a bit of intelligence)... Never underestimate the enemy, it will ALWAYS come back and bite you in the a$$.

I personally think it was a horrible way to go, and sincerely feel sorry for the families of these crewmen.

HKot, Hammerite, whatever name you are using this time, you need to do a bit of soulsearching...

Very sad.

My son's in the Navy and was aboard a submarine (he's now deployed to a destroyer) and still has friends on sub service. That's one of a parent's worst nightmares.

When I see things like this, I'm sorry that the world isn't much closer and kinder; I would like to send condolences to the families who lost their boys.

All submariners will be mourning the death of these men, whether they were the ' enemy or not '. They more than anybody know the perils of undersea operation.

In Western Navies, the submarines have to pass the strictest safety tests. Almost no expense has been spared in the design and building of these boats to ensure crew safety.
You ony have to look at the Russian and Chinese tin cans to see how much effort they put into making them safe.

From what I can remember Deisel subs used to be the top as far as quite or stealth went.

I don't think "diesel" per se is the problem. One can imagine numerous scenarios in which diesel would be preferable: nuclear subs are big, expensive, perhaps easier to detect, and, of course, "nuclear" which might cause any number of concerns for a particular government.
Poor maintenance woudl be an obvious suggestion given it's China - or an undisclosed military source.
Rumour here is some sort of skulduggery regarding NK (just across the water); but I'm going for poor technology and quality control.

So they suspect NK sabotaged the sub? or sunk it directly?

From what I can remember Deisel subs used to be the top as far as quite or stealth went. Posted by Advisor

Very true. In nuclear subs, you have to have pumps running at all times to create a constant coolant flow over the reactor core (or risk a meltdown), regardless of if the sub is moving or attempting to bottom out and be totally silent. Nuclear reactors are not readily started up or shut down with the flip of a switch.

Diesels on the other hand run on totally electrical drives when submerged. Due to the lack of constant high volume pumping, and the associated heat radiation disposal problems, (thermal expansion of materials, groaning, creating thermal inversions in the surrounding water and turbulence, ect), a simple large electric motor running the props would be the preferred choice for complete stealth.

If need be, a diesel can simply shut down its motor, litterally with the flip of switch, and essentially be as quiet as possible, disappearing from passive sonar detection systems.

The German (now used by Israel as part of its nuclear deterance system), Japanese, and Swedish diesel/electric boats are considered the best of the crop, and in all standards except for total submerged endurance, can easily hold its own against a nuclear boat.

The main difference between nuclear and diesel/electric boats is that a diesel can now remain submerged for up to a week or two, assuming sparing use of its motor, or can supply high bursts of speed (faster even than a nuke boat) for short periods. The nuke boats on the other hand, are capable of remaining submerged for as long as provisions allow, and can allow fairly high sustained speeds.