So I just stood my ground against a mob of communist morons trying to forcibly close me down today.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz

I don’t want to argue. You have your opinion I have mine.

We are in a dialog initiated by yourself, I'm not even attempting to promote in you a change of view point, I was prompted to participate by what I took as a overcritical comment on the state of Spanish politics and unions.

I'm attempting to provide a counter balance from your assertion to other that are reading this thread.

I already said that even the bad unions do some good. That goes without saying that the good I see them do is weighed in my mind with the evil I see them do.

I have come to the conclusion after 5 years here, and a lifetime of visiting that they do more harm than good.

As a visiting American to a society that is as divergent as the Spanish to the life in the US you would agree that you probably have a pretty much reduced experience, lets say in comparison with a person that is not limited to only visiting. You have the vision about that reality that a visitor would and you probably have very little understanding on Spain's social history...

There are no bad unions, they may exist bad union leaders or bad laws. A union is always beneficial to the collective it supports or there wouldn't be a union in the first place as no one would pay the quotes. Look at ATS for instance it is also a collective.

I find the single single most identifying common thread between them all is their political ideology.

I have already explained that to you, the ones interested in defending the workers (proletariat includes only the wage earners collectively often those without property of their own and normally excludes salaried workers) are parties to the left of the spectrum. To the right they often do some lip work at times but the workers interests are not their core concern.

If you notice I have BARELY even touched communism in this thread

I have noticed (and I join you in your surprise) that you have been back paddling a bit in your posts due to the overwhelming sanity of the responses but you dug your own "grave" with the title of the thread.

So I just stood my ground against a mob of communist morons trying to forcibly close me down today.,

If one thing is sure the left wing supporter is often better informed than those defending the right, they are generally not morons (look at the quality of education in Russia or Cuba, even China) and they only form a mob when it serves their own interests (or are subverted from inside by agitators). In any case as I stated before you seem to be generally calling communists to everyone you dislike that is at your left.

Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

Keep your guns handy? I don't think they are presently solving problems in Spain with guns. American mentality often stops at its borders.

edit on 21-12-2012 by Aleister because: edit

That is a shame since it has worked so well for us. 300 years or so and the world is our's to piss on. Mite not like what i said but it is true.

I don't pee on people,nor think of it.We need the world with us, our government has totally screwed this up and has since the end of WWII.
We do believe in those values from corny films,westerns etc.

Scratching head over post by VaterOrlaagurl

Having, a gun and knowing when and how to use it, as when dealing with being vastly outnumbered by evil-doers who, tired of the street, begin forcing their way into businesses and homes, should simply be accepted as tools for getting through the day.
I don't know what sort of criminality you are dealing with since, none of the criminals I have dealt with were likely to be brought to their right minds by a stern lecture.
I don't care how physically imposing you might be, a group of people can and will take you out ,so that they may loot your business, or in the case of Rodney Denny; just beat you to death for fun.
Am I to take the OP's hypothetical as an actuality?
Am I to understand that a sharp tone and a loudly spoken "Shame on you, every one!" will keep me safer than if I draw my 50cal Desert Eagle?
Ok, I'm going to be fair about this...I have never tried the "stern reproach" method of dealing with miscreants because I'm just not certain it would work.
I think the OP should post his "Back, back, AWAY WITH YOU!!!!" speech, maybe we all need is help finding the right words, or how to comb our hair just right, or whether to wear grey flannel or light blue cotton.
Because failing that, I could only believe that you are confabulating more than just a little.
The "Rodney King" riots saw businessmen opening fire on looters, who decided the better part of valor to be discreation upon seeing the gunmen.
OP: Perhaps you should make a U-Toob video of you delivering your astonishing screed here!
How wonderful it will be when we can tell an armed robber; "put that gun away right now or I will give you such a thrashing!"
Meanwhile i'll just keep my arms and amunition within reach.

reply to post by Panic2k11


well,
one- and I am tired of repeating this. I call them communists because that is what THEY call themselves. That is not an implied insult to them. To think I say it condescendingly shows how unbalanced and aggressive some people are about the subject. I say communist morons because that is exactly what they are- morons who are also communist.


two- the left is not more informed, it THINKS it is more informed because it mixes up what they see as the morally superior ideology and think that because it sounds nice that it is inherently correct.

three- unions go against socialism. They would not exist in a true socialism. The workers would OWN their own production and a collective community would take the role of a union. They don’t work in a capitalism since they create corruption in leadership, ALWAYS, and they are not necessary in socialism or communism.

four- I am not being ignorant of anything. I have studied communism and have had much experience debating communists. My sister is a member of the communist party in the US: She is a FAR left hippie/ feminist/ whatever the hell you can think of. If it is progressive, she is it. We get along fine, but differ VASTLY in our opinions. There is nothing I haven’t heard, and I might be better informed than you since my sister has a truly brilliant mind and has educated me on the subject for many years....sooooo, no.

five- your own preconceptions of what someone like me must be is what blinds you to what everyone truly is at heart. I have not dug into communists, though if I really wanted to I could cite the infinite number of examples where it has failed and has in turn produced some of the worst atrocities in the world. I have not. I call them idiots, morons and what not because I won’t hide the fact that I don’t approve of that ideology and cannot tolerate its most extreme forms. That does not mean I do not know what I am talking about just because I disagree with it. It means I disagree with it. It is not IMPOSSIBLE for someone to study communism or even socialism and not find it appealing. I did not.

What I have noticed as well is that the supposed "progressive" crowd is intolerant of others not in line with their ideologies. The right has more instances of just accepting people as they come, disagreeing with them but ultimately minding their own business. The left is not content with that, and instead is always on a frustrated quest to save or convert the world. Delusions of grandeur come to mind "oh messiahs". The right is not without reprimand but since it has received its fair share already in this thread I will leave it be..... Had I seen some balanced views instead of either American bashing, or ignorant name calling towards the right, I would have just listed what I think of extremists right wingers.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by zedVSzardoz

 

Keep your guns handy.

DEY TOOK RRRR GUUUNNNSSS

reply to post by mythots


well man, that is not entirely true.

We are at heart an agricultural country that has been charged by the international community with what their citizens call world policing. Their governments know why we do it and why we agreed to do it. Their citizens think we get a kick out of filling the most body bags.

We have the responsibility we have and little more, the gains are really not worth it for you and me. But it is what it is. It would be nice if other countries take on the responsibility we have and let us return to our apple pie and our farms. We were happier then.
Their globalist agenda has hurt us IMO as a people. It will eventually be handed over to Europe once they get their EU army up and going. Then the cost of the UN will be their burden as well as global security.

It is not really anything to brag about man.

reply to post by Luminaught


listen, I am not saying that somehow you can speak the devil out of people. I am saying that sometimes your brain is your biggest asset. Had I taken the physical approach I would be sitting in jail right now or in a hospital or worse. They would have won. I would have lost.

A mob with whom you have the luck of addressing some form of leadership when coordinated, is not the same as a riot.

In a riot, I would not open my mouth. I would consider what my dad did during the riots in NY in the early 90´s, which was stand outside his business with his gun in hand. He called in some favors and got some friends to do the same. That is why the day after the last night of rioting, he opened for business as usual while others had their places looted.

That is not an every day situation. What happened to me was nothing like that. I HAD the chance to be smarter, not stronger, so I used it. I recommend that, not suicide.

reply to post by HairlessApe




Sorry, I just had to....LOL I couldn’t find a video clip of south parks aging liberal hippie douche....

Have a good one!

how do I get in that union ?

reply to post by gladtobehere


I was partially educated in Spain, and lived there for almost 10 years as my family roots are from northern Spain.

In Spain it is illegal to own a short weapon like a pistol, except for the police, and special forces. Spain has become more and more leftist. They forgot the lessons from the RED TERROR of the 1930s, when leftists, socialists, communists etc, decided to go on a killing spree in most of the country and in about 2-3 months they murdered tens of thousands of people. The figure has been never fully known but it is believed it could have been as high as 72,000+

They murdered religious people, and capitalists, even many of the clergy were murdered by these leftwing scumbags, and because of this Franco decided to end the leftwing threat, once and for all.

They also burned many churches all around the country, even thou they were not the mayority, as Spain has also been a very religious country. The mayority was silent until these murders.

Even back in the 1980s i remember going to bars and hearing conversations from old men who missed the times of Franco. Yes, he killed MANY leftwingers, and their sympathizers... But there was near no crime at all, and if you did commit a crime you were caught very quickly and dealt with harshly.

Leftwingers love to ignore history, and what their ideas have caused to the world at large, and to this day they still think their ideas are right...

These are the people who sided with Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, the castro brothers etc, etc... The worse of the worse that mankind has ever done...

These are the people who caused the most murders/killings than all other wars together, including the mayor world wars.

In total leftwingers have murdered/killed 130 million -160+ million in around 87 years, not to mention the gulags, and indoctrination/brainwashing camps they set up all around the world to force their ideas upon those that didn't want them... and they still want more...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


everything you said is correct.

I had no idea you spent time in northern Spain electric. I know I gave you a hard time in that other thread but I really don’t have anything against what you said here.

The Franco days may have been a dictatorship, but he did much good to the country in terms of public works and what not that are still used and enjoyed by many. The left wingers here get upset because of statues and monuments but don’t say a peep about the aqueducts, roads, and everything else that brought Spain out of the dark ages. He may have killed people, but a civil war is always brutal and the other side did horrible things too and employed extremist muscle as per their "anything goes" philosophy. They also stole the elections by less than noble means which caused the revolt, IMO.


If you are ever here again hit me up, I would love to have a beer and chat you up some. I am in Asturias.

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

yes I was talking to some of my neighbors and they were pretty pissed about that. I guess the cops were more concerned with if things got violent. There were instances of the protesters breaking some chairs for the terraces and the like crap. One place in particular was where the secretary general and lead lawyer (for an organization that represents us as well as tourism for our area abroad) were drinking their coffee (inferior coffee to mine) and the cops had to get out of the vans and break things up. There is no mention of that in the MSM here though.

I guess they didnt want to get caught on camera interfering with the protest. I dont know. Sucks that what they are doing is technically legal. I dont want to reform laws so they cant protest, I want them to simply respect people who are not marching with them.

edit on 22-12-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

I can understand a protest, but ther eis a difference between protesting and vandalizing businesses. The OWS crowd here didn't seem to know the difference, and the WH even spoke in support of them, as they broke law after law.

Too often, people don't have any respect for others, and too often, those in authority side with the wrong ones.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

Anarcho-capitalism is only an oxymoron if you don't know what you're talking about. To the rest of the world its a common and commonly referred to political philosophy.

Wrong, just wrong.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

I was partially educated in Spain, and lived there for almost 10 years as my family roots are from northern Spain.

In Spain it is illegal to own a short weapon like a pistol, except for the police, and special forces. Spain has become more and more leftist. They forgot the lessons from the RED TERROR of the 1930s, when leftists, socialists, communists etc, decided to go on a killing spree in most of the country and in about 2-3 months they murdered tens of thousands of people. The figure has been never fully known but it is believed it could have been as high as 72,000+

They murdered religious people, and capitalists, even many of the clergy were murdered by these leftwing scumbags, and because of this Franco decided to end the leftwing threat, once and for all.

They also burned many churches all around the country, even thou they were not the mayority, as Spain has also been a very religious country. The mayority was silent until these murders.

Even back in the 1980s i remember going to bars and hearing conversations from old men who missed the times of Franco. Yes, he killed MANY leftwingers, and their sympathizers... But there was near no crime at all, and if you did commit a crime you were caught very quickly and dealt with harshly.

Leftwingers love to ignore history, and what their ideas have caused to the world at large, and to this day they still think their ideas are right...

These are the people who sided with Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, the castro brothers etc, etc... The worse of the worse that mankind has ever done...

These are the people who caused the most murders/killings than all other wars together, including the mayor world wars.

In total leftwingers have murdered/killed 130 million -160+ million in around 87 years, not to mention the gulags, and indoctrination/brainwashing camps they set up all around the world to force their ideas upon those that didn't want them... and they still want more...

edit on 23-12-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

FRANCO WAS A FASCIST YOU IDIOT.

The Spanish Revolution was largely a good thing. Were terrible things committed? Yes. Does this reflect on the entirety of the Spanish Revolution? NO. Were the Fascists a good thing? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

Originally posted by nottelling
reply to post by zedVSzardoz

 

...discuss their ideology and mine (which is vaguely Anarcho-Libertarian but don't tell anyone) until the cows come home...

The term "Anarcho-Libertarian" is redundant. Libertarian traditionally referred to Anarchists (typically Socialists) and not free-market right wing industrialists.

If you're thinking of "Anarcho"-Capitalism, that is an oxymoron.

Please read:

www.infoshop.org...

Is my lack of "political purity" showing? Oops, how "ideologically unsound" of me...

Sorry about that.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


Fascist or not, I think most people in Spain just try to see the enormous good he did FOR the country. I am not the biggest fan of Franco but like you said, both sides did terrible things. Franco at least tried to look out for his countries best interests. Also it could be said that the application of law now is fascist in Spain.

Law now is applied to every facet of a persons life, heavy taxes are levied, personal property and privacy is a thing of the past, and the government does what it pleases without the consent of the governed. That is fascist as well.

But the greater good is not oriented towards the prosperity of the nation, instead it is oriented towards the EU and not the Spanish people themselves.

I can see from you post that the corruption at the top is rife. No wonder people are pouring into the street protesting.

Though they wouldn't be, if they knew what "protesting" really means.

It means "I accept, though I am not happy about it".

To protest = to accept. To give it a big "OK". To agree with continuing to moan about it.

People should learn this - instead of protesting, they should be REJECTING.

They could still wave their megaphones and signs around, but they should not call it a "protest", they should call it "rejection". Though there are better ways than those, as all Freemen on the land know.

There is a wide range of peaceful, lawful weapons, if you stop believing the crap that the media tells you about "law" and "legal system" (two completely different things in reality!). Commercial Liens, conditional acceptance, and being able to recognize when someone is trying to make you contract with them (and when they switch from english to legalese - it's actually very important).

For example, if a policy enforcer (police) says to you: "Do you understand", he is not speaking english. Normally, you'd think he is simply asking whether you comprehend what he is saying. He is not.

He is actually asking for you to STAND UNDER him - in other words, if you give a positive answer to that question, he has gained AUTHORITY OVER YOU.

This was just one small sample of how people have been tricked - but it's the people's fault, really, because the information is out there, and no one is stopping you from researching and learning the truth!

So don't feel bad if every single thing you have ever "protested", has actually been accepted - you actually helped the process by making it official.

reply to post by Shoujikina

For example, if a policy enforcer (police) says to you: "Do you understand", he is not speaking english. Normally, you'd think he is simply asking whether you comprehend what he is saying. He is not.

He is actually asking for you to STAND UNDER him - in other words, if you give a positive answer to that question, he has gained AUTHORITY OVER YOU.

My simplest response is- yah, I get that. Everyone knows that the sun doesn't "rise", the earth turns. But I agree with you. Like all the forms we fill out ask us to put our last name first (from birth). So they have legal dominion over us. Or when the cops go, "Do you mind if we search your vehicle?"

"Of course I mind".

Whoops, you have something to hide. Either way, they get their way.

Difficult distinctions to remember during "rejection" when the batons are flying and tear gas fills the air.

reply to post by Shoujikina

One other thing I wanted to say about protesting...

I think the "ideal" is that lots of people show up. So many in fact that the authorities are overwhelmed by the sheer presence and the people at the top gasp as they look out their windows at a sea of humanity begging for change. This is what happened in the US during the Vietnam War and it worked. Pressure to change was just enough to tip the scales.

Lets see, where do we find a million people to agree on anything nowadays? Thanks to the internet the world is more fractured than ever?