Euthanasia should be banned....

Originally posted by Nygdan
For that extreme example, I'd have to say its irresponsible and inhuman to just allow people to kill themselves when then whim overtakes them and do nothing. Ultimately its their choice, but the derranged aren't expected to be competent enough to make regular decisions, let alone that kind.

Who are you to tell someone they cant take there own life?

What it boils down to is who owns that persons life? You? The state?

Or him?

Originally posted by Nygdan
how did i destroy the context? You said 'particularly' with certain cancers, this means that you were talking about the phenomenon in general, and highlighting a particular example. If you meant something else, then it wasn't clear, at least to me, and glad to see we agree on this aspect of the topic.

- Hmm, I'm not sure we agree here.

I am saying that there are many cases where people are suffering in the most appalling manner, medicine has reached a point where it is unable to help them further and that in those circumstances they have the right to 'call it a day' and seek help to die and end their suffering.

I believe this should be legal and that they should be able to do this with help and dignity.

When it comes to an issue like this people always refer to if someone is in pain, so I will try to relate my experience.

In 1998, when I was 20 I was admitted to the hospital for severe headaches. For 2 weeks I was pumped full of Demerol which really did nothing to help. At first I was told it was migraines. It wasn't.

Since then I have had to undergo 10 major operations to remove diseased bones and tissue in my head. I have titanium plates holding my nose, left orbital socket, and forehead together. I live in constant pain. I have also been on every pain medication there is. While these do tend to help in the short term, my body has built up an immunity to everything.

I would be lying if I said I never thought of putting a gun in my mouth and pulling the trigger. It would be easy. I have no children or wife so I would be leaving no one behind. I was always afraid of failing and ending up worse than I presently am.

I believe that dictating how someone chooses to live their is wrong as long as they do not commit crimes and are a menace to society. In that same measure I feel dictating how someone dies is also wrong. It should never be up to someone else to decide that there are other alternatives for someone in pain to end their pain.

For myself, I have only 2 choices. I can live the rest of my life in pain, since there is no real cure, or I can live my life up to the point that I want to end it. It never was anyone else business and it should never be someone else's business.

Originally posted by tomcat
I believe that dictating how someone chooses to live their is wrong as long as they do not commit crimes and are a menace to society.....

......In that same measure I feel dictating how someone dies is also wrong.

- Well I think my point was not to 'dictate' anything to anyone.

I think we should be free to make the choices we believe appropriate to ourselves.

It never was anyone else business and it should never be someone else's business.

- Fair enough but this is a public message board debating the issues of the day and this is certainly one of them.

No-one is trying to intrude on your own specific circumstances.

I wish you peace comfort and well.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by Nygdan
For that extreme example, I'd have to say its irresponsible and inhuman to just allow people to kill themselves when then whim overtakes them and do nothing. Ultimately its their choice, but the derranged aren't expected to be competent enough to make regular decisions, let alone that kind.

Who are you to tell someone they cant take there own life?

Everyone can tell people that they shouldn't take their life and help them work out whatever problem it is that is making them want to. Or do you suggest that if someone goes to the doctor and requests assisted suicide that they immeadiately be given cyanide pills? Or that people who are completely schizophrenic and not taking their medication be given assisted suicide? If they are on their medication then thats a different story, but realistically, the vast majority of suicides don't do so because of having arrived at a philosophical conlcusion that death is better than life. Sure, a person who is dying from terminal uncurable cancer and can't even be treated for the pain and has nothing but real misery and torture to look forward to for the rest of their life, sure thats one type, but at the same time if there were a cure you'd say that they should try it first no?

What it boils down to is who owns that persons life?

Obviously them, thats what I said in the first place. However it would be disgusting to give a person suffering from depression with suicidal tendencies a gun rather than their pills. Everyone has a responsibility to help other people or at least try to help them.

Originally posted by tomcat

I would be lying if I said I never thought of putting a gun in my mouth and pulling the trigger. It would be easy. I have no children or wife so I would be leaving no one behind. I was always afraid of failing and ending up worse than I presently am.

I sincerely hope that it'll never get so bad that you'll actually take your own life. I really feel for you. My mother is dying and is in constant pain, also. She's told me many times that she wishes she could die, but can't. All she'd have to do is refuse her life-saving dialysis treatments and she'd be gone in just a few days...but oddly, everytime this topic comes up she states she's not ready to go yet.

Next time you think you wouldn't be leaving anyone behind...think again. What about your fellow-posters here at ATS? Don't you think we'd care? Lots of people would miss you, and not just here...really. And I'm not just blowing sunshine up your ***. I really mean it.

Originally posted by Amuk

Who are you to tell someone they cant take there own life?

What it boils down to is who owns that persons life? You? The state?

Or him?

Good point.

But The problem with euthanasia is it adds a middle man, the doctor. Family pressure and greedy doctors can influence an alzhiemers patient to take his/her life when they truly don't want to.

Think about it... Euthanasists are out there to make money just like everybody else. The more patients that they "assist" the more cash they rake in. What is stopping these doctors from recommending assisted suicide to anybody?

Plus, there would be pressure from health insurance agencies on those doctors, because the more patients they kill, the less money the agencies have to dish out for their medical care.

There is no shortage of tall buildings, cliffs, or bridges. Death would be painless. Let those who truly want to die do it in a way that is purely their own choice, not influenced y some hack or health insurer.

Like abortion, I feel so ignorant on this issue because I cannot support either side. i am torn.

Personally, I would never take another's life. I can understand the argument, but a person's life is left in their own hands. I guess it could be seen as a "fend for yourself" ideaology, but I'd rather think of it as free will. If someone feels they need assited suicide, there is oviously something holding them back from doing the deed themselves. If something is holding you back so strongly that you need someone else to finish it off for you, it probably shouldn't be done.

Now in the case of a 100 year old granmother in a coma for 6 months, living off of machines and hovering between life and death in a state of limbo- I can see where the line should be drawn. However, where this line should be drawn in everyone else's life is so varied, there is no eay answer andn o one will ever be completely satisfied.

Originally posted by Scat
However, where this line should be drawn in everyone else's life is so varied, there is no eay answer andn o one will ever be completely satisfied.

That is why it should be left to the person not the state. To do any different would amount to saying that everyone of our lives belong to the state and IT not us will be the judge of when its over.

But there's the problem: that's what SHOULD be done...not what WILL be done. Two members of the same family could have completey different opinions of the matter, and a huge lawsuit errupts. The second one side wins or loses, it goes down as law, case precedent, and thus, the STATE governs our decisions, not us.

Sadly, almost everything is governed by the state, from what we can wear to what we can see on TV. The old saying, "If you dont want to hear it, dont listen" no longer applies.

Originally posted by Scat
Two members of the same family could have completey different opinions of the matter, and a huge lawsuit errupts. The second one side wins or loses, it goes down as law, case precedent, and thus, the STATE governs our decisions, not us.
.

Thats what living wills are for, it just takes a few minutes to fill one out and BINGO you have control once again

Thank you for the sentiments Nygdan;

Pleas believe me, I have no intention of doing this. I have too much left to do and see.