Thirst For Vengeance: A Poison Of The Mind

I'll preface this thread by first stating that the ideas presented will probably not be palpable to a lot of people. But the ideas expressed are things I need to get off of my chest, as I've had much experience with this particular topic, whether on my own part or through hearing what others say and how they act.

I live in West Virginia. Not too far away from where I live, a man named Charles March killed a woman he was dating at the time, chopped her up, and buried her in his backyard. It wasn't until two years (I believe it was two) later that his own son ended up digging in his backyard and found her remains.

The case is still in trial, but he has already been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, it simply hasn't been through all of those complicated court processes we know and love.

I was speaking with my grandmother after there was a news piece discussing when Charles March tried to commit suicide by throwing himself off of a second story railing in jail, an attempt to break his own neck. After the news story ran, my grandmother said something that, I will admit some time ago I wouldn't have paid much attention to it (and probably would have even agreed with her), but it took me back like a shot to the chin.

She said, and I quote, "I really wish they would do to him what he did to that girl."

So I responded, "What would that accomplish?"

She just kind of looked at me, as if to say, "What do you mean? It would accomplish a lot!" But it really wouldn't.

"You're actually sitting there, wanting somebody to literally murder him and chop him into pieces?" I said. She paused before answering. "Well, yes, that's what I just said."

"Then what would that accomplish? Would that bring her back to life? Would murdering him and mutilating his body make everything better?"

She sort of ignored me at that point after saying something to the extent of, "You're being silly."

And so the obvious question is this: Someone does something bad, so what would it accomplish for you to wish terrible things on that person, wish to see them go to prison, or worse, and cheer when they "get what's coming to them"?

It's no secret human beings are bloodthirsty creatures. We love seeing violence, we revel in warfare, and when the "bad guys" get punished, like some sort of Hollywood blockbuster, we feel a grand sense of justice and accomplishment.

Where does this come from? The ego? Satiating some animalistic desire within yourself by projecting your own violent tendencies in unnatural ways?

So, after meditating upon it for some time (literally months on end of daily meditation and contemplation on this particular topic), I've come to my own conclusion that justice is not there to make you feel good. Safe? Perhaps. But punishing others should not make you feel good. It should never make you feel a sense of victory, as though you won some great battle against evil. You didn't. Neither did the justice system, they simple mulled over evidence and found them (presumably) guilty, thus putting them in prison for whatever amount of time is desired.

Justice is there to keep others from being harmed or defrauded in some way. When a murderer goes to prison, it's because if he was let loose on his own accord, he may go and kill again. Perhaps they may let him out if he doesn't have a life sentence, has probation, and has been a generally good cookie who shows genuine signs of remorse for his actions. Justice is NOT a professional wrestling match or a theatrical presentation. There are no characters, there is no script, this is the reality of the situation.

Furthermore, and here's where I may lose a lot of supporters in this philosophy:

Nobody deserves to be murdered. Ever.

What is murder? It's a particular kind of theft. The taking of a life that is not freely given to you. We frown upon those who steal money from little old ladies, and yet have an opposite reaction in an almost identical situation, taking the life of another human being that has already been brought to justice (or could be brought to justice).

This opens up a big can of worms, and I think you can assume what sort of worms we're talking about.

You may ask, "What about Adolf Hitler? Osama bin Laden? Muammar Gaddafi? Surely these men, evil and corrupt right down to the core, having killed so many innocent people, deserve to be mercilessly killed for their crimes against humanity! Sure you can't be saying these men didn't deserve to die!"

That's exactly what I'm saying, "These men." Men. Human beings, of flesh and blood. Do I care what they did? Of course. They took innocent lives, they did awful things. Do I think killing them would be justified for their actions? No. It never is.

The aforementioned men, or at least one of them in particular, brings up some memories that I must relay. When Osama bin Laden was declared dead, I remember seeing people getting drunk and dancing in the streets.

Yet when Arabs danced in the streets during 9/11, we were appalled.

You may think there's a difference, but is there? Because what connected both instances?

People celebrated murder.

THAT is what disturbs me, and THAT is what is a poison of the mind.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this subject, and hope we can keep the discussion civil and reasonable. I ask that you don't slip down the slippery slope of turning this into a flame war, because I put a lot of my heart and mind into it, and it would stink to see it become degraded into name calling and finger pointing.

Interesting how the kids this day and age, have become desensitized. Just had a argument with a young fellow earlier today about the same scenario. Crazy, Is it videogames, T.V., or just this generation? Interesting post op

reply to post by kingsquirel


The weird thing though, is that it was my grandmother who said it. I had figured her to be a sort of level headed person who wasn't into the whole "hammer of justice" romanticism. I guess I was wrong, and it saddened me a little.

reply to post by ManjushriPrajna


I agree. Revenge is a toxic desire. It accomplishes nothing, and solves nothing.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.

“It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.”― Voltaire

“Nobody owns life, but anyone who can pick up a frying pan owns death.”
― William S. Burroughs


“If it weren't for greed, intolerance, hate, passion and murder, you would have no works of art, no great buildings, no medical science, no Mozart, no Van Gough, no Muppets and no Louis Armstrong.”
― Jasper Fforde

“Seeing a murder on television... can help work off one's antagonisms. And if you haven't any antagonisms, the commercials will give you some.”
― Alfred Hitchcock

“Look now -- in all the history of men have been taught that killing of men is an evil thing not to be countenanced. Any man who kills must be destroyed because this is a great sin, maybe the worst we know. And then we take a soldier and put murder in his hands and we say to him, "use it well, use it wisely." We put no checks on him. go out and kill as many of a certain kind of classification of your brothers as you can. And we will reward you for it because it is a violation of your early training.”
― John Steinbeck

Holding on to your anger is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die. – Buddha.

is what came to mind.

S&F

reply to post by ManjushriPrajna


Agreed. If someone was to murder and chop up that murderer just like he did to his girlfriend, then the person who murdered the murderer would in turn also have to be murdered and chopped into pieces, and so on and so one, and an infinite regress results. This defies logic.

reply to post by ManjushriPrajna


In a common sense I would approve your thoughts. But live is a drama that is being played by forces we can not measure. That a lot of people are programmed to kill literary and others like you are afflicted by the pain of others is just a glimpse of that reality where The universe is like a holodeck. Pleasure and pain at some moment become just memory.

reply to post by ManjushriPrajna


I couldn't agree with you more. However, the guilty must be punished and the word spread so that other people who would perpetuate such an act will be discouraged from doing so. There should be no joy in taking that justice, but sometimes it becomes necessary to take that person out of society and keep them from harming other innocent people. I myself am wondering where the right side of the line is nowadays. It's a complicated world and all you can do is learn and watch and keep meditating in search of what is the truth and what is not.

reply to post by Coopdog


I agree whole heartedly. There are people in the world who commit crimes, if we did not punish them by seperating them from the general public, who is to say they won't just turn around and do it again? You're also right, in that one shouldn't take pleasure in punishing others, but it is neccesary for a society to keep them from doing the same thing again.

You cannot douse a fire with fire, it will only grow.

Originally posted by ManjushriPrajna
reply to post by Coopdog

 

I agree whole heartedly. There are people in the world who commit crimes, if we did not punish them by seperating them from the general public, who is to say they won't just turn around and do it again? You're also right, in that one shouldn't take pleasure in punishing others, but it is neccesary for a society to keep them from doing the same thing again.

They need to be removed from the public to protect the public but 'punishment' is not the answer. Mentoring these individuals would be better because many who comit crime know no other way.

I 100% agree!

I recently had an experience with someone where she did the one thing I had told her would ruin my life if she did it...
And as I was bawling my eyes out and listening to my friends trying to plan revenge, I had one of those 'snap' moments where I came to a huge realization... Revenge wasn't the answer. It hit me like a tonne of bricks, a sudden wake up call that it wasn't up to me to decide what happened to her.

It would just continue in one horrible cycle. Revenge on this girl would not only hurt her but it would hurt me, whether it came from karma or her own deeds.

Miraculously, her plan failed, and my life went on as normal. I've now forgiven her (in myself, not to her face) and am a lot better off from it, rather than spending all my time planning revenges and playing her silly games. As if I would be any better than her if I continued with vengeance plans!

It is definitely a poison that stems from the ego, always wanting to preserve our pride and take the easier path of holding onto anger than the harder path of forgiveness or simply letting go.