Is there a Mother?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

I can't think of a single religion or set of mythologies that don't include goddesses, outside of the Abrahamic ones. And now we see that ancient Hebrews did honor a goddess and the Virgin Mary is a carry over of goddess worship for Christians. I don't know about Islam and goddesses.

Hmm. I see trends between Judaism during Jesus's time and Christianity today. It is said that many female figurines of Asherah were unearthed, however, I do doubt that Asherah is really the true Mother because idols of things in Heaven are forbidden. Just as Asherah was falsely venerated, there are false attributes that ascribe divinity to Mary.

Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

Cleave is English, Genesis was written in Hebrew,

Us symbolizes the Trinity and the Seven Spirits of the Most High,

Wisdom is the Spirit of God who is the Goddess of all Creation,

Why would you read the Bible only to mock its Author?

God bless

If anything, I am mocking doctrines. Funny that you would interpret my words as mockery of Father.

In the Old Testament, the feminine side is covered by the fact that Israel as a whole is understood to be the "wife" of her God, in prophets from Hosea to Ezekiel (and, I believe, in the Song of Solomon).
This continues into the New Testament with the church as the "bride of Christ".

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

There's something in the Talmud, I think, about the "Mother of Heaven" or the "Queen of Heaven".....not sure her title. God kept her from the sight of mankind so that they wouldn't blaspheme her.

I guess he's very protective and jealous of her reputation.

I'll see if I can find more on this.

Oh, I read online that the book of Jeremiah references twice the "Queen of Heaven," and both references have to do with Israel suffering for provoking God by not following the commandment to worship graven images. As you can tell by my previous posts, I think Asherah was blasphemous to the real Mother and Father did not appreciate this. What is your take?

biblia.com...
biblia.com...

Originally posted by DISRAELI
In the Old Testament, the feminine side is covered by the fact that Israel as a whole is understood to be the "wife" of her God, in prophets from Hosea to Ezekiel (and, I believe, in the Song of Solomon).
This continues into the New Testament with the church as the "bride of Christ".

I always thought it was just figurative language whenever prophets depicted Israel to be the "wife" of God. For instance, my professor warned me that I was to marry the topic of my research paper. If I were to marry my topic, I would take care and look over and love it on a more intimate level. I think prophets were referencing that type of extra special relationship Father has with Israel because she would give birth to Jesus Christ. I also see a cyclical pattern when discussing Father's relationship with Israel and Jesus Christ's relationship with the church. The cliche, "Like father, like son," is rather appropriate in this context.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

Yes, I agree that it's figurative.
I'm just observing that femininity is not brushed aside altogether. It has a place in the schema.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

Yes, I agree that it's figurative.
I'm just observing that femininity is not brushed aside altogether. It has a place in the schema.

What do you mean femininity is not brushed aside altogether? BTW, is your username a reference to Benjamin Disraeli?

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

Yes; I was looking for a Conservative name in history, and it seemed less presumptuous than Winston Churchill.
Feminists complain about Old Testament doctrine being too masculine.
So I was just pointing out that the Old Testament does have a place for the feminine aspect in the overall religious scheme of things (despite treating God as a male).

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by abeverage
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

The questions where (are) rhetorical, no need to answer them.

Ok, but as I look over my response, it seems as if I am appealing to my own form of circular logic -_- sorry for the bad responses, it's kind of brain wrecking and I just stumbled upon this notion recently and was too lazy to really formulate things out.

And I meant were not where lol. But I am glad to see you puzzling this out.

I have often wondered why Humans often put their God in Human shaped boxes. To me our spark is the mind and all that comes with it, the bodies are just vessels, that frankly could have been any shape that allowed us to manipulate our environment. But do any of those shapes need to be applied to a Creator? How about the notions of sex? Or a physical form?

Personally I don't believe so and it is limiting both to our imaginations and to the power of an Almighty creator!

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

There's something in the Talmud, I think, about the "Mother of Heaven" or the "Queen of Heaven".....not sure her title. God kept her from the sight of mankind so that they wouldn't blaspheme her.

I guess he's very protective and jealous of her reputation.

I'll see if I can find more on this.

Oh, I read online that the book of Jeremiah references twice the "Queen of Heaven," and both references have to do with Israel suffering for provoking God by not following the commandment to worship graven images. As you can tell by my previous posts, I think Asherah was blasphemous to the real Mother and Father did not appreciate this. What is your take?

biblia.com...
biblia.com...

Yeah, I saw those scriptures when I was searching for that information I had seen. I still can't find it, and I'm beginning to think that it was a apologetic letter from a Jewish scholar addressing Talmudic practices that seemed unethical to the layman.

I agree that one could assume that Yahweh was appalled by the imagery and practices that the peasants used to honor his supposed wife.

I think it's important to remember that Abraham was the one who introduced the concept of one god and only one god. I think that this was a tough pill for the average Hebrew to swallow. The idea of one god is a very metaphysical and deeply intellectual concept.

The Hebrew people were influenced by Sumerian, Babylonian and Egyptian religions that were all polytheistic. Old habits are hard to break. There really is no reason to believe that Yahweh was the ONLY god, but that he was one of many.

Jealous Yahweh would have no god before him, but I don't think that honoring other spiritual entities was considered a crime, as long as you subscribed to Yahweh as the highest. There is a lot of evidence in the book of Jubilees and in Enoch that "angels" of nature were to be honored also. Angels appear to Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Mary and Jesus, among others.

And the angel of the presence spake to Moses according to the word of the Lord, saying:

Write the complete history of the creation, how in six days the Lord God finished all His works and all that He created, and kept Sabbath on the seventh day and hallowed it for all ages, and appointed it as a sign for all His works.

For on the first day He created the heavens which are above and the earth and the waters and all the spirits which serve before him -the angels of the presence, and the angels of sanctification, and the angels [of the spirit of fire and the angels] of the spirit of the winds, and the angels of the spirit of the clouds, and of darkness, and of snow and of hail and of hoar frost, and the angels of the voices and of the thunder and of the lightning, and the angels of the spirits of cold and of heat, and of winter and of spring and of autumn and of summer and of all the spirits of his creatures which are in the heavens and on the earth, (He created) the abysses and the darkness, eventide , and the light, dawn and day, which He hath prepared in the knowledge of his heart.

www.pseudepigrapha.com...

Remember when the angels visited Lot, and the men of the city "wanted" them. They appeared to be human. It's easy to make the leap that many of these idols were actually images of these beings who did interact with humans in biblical times. And, that some of them may have appeared in female form.

Yahweh himself, who is said to have dictated the law to Moses, may very well have been an angel and not the "Most High God" that the angels served. So maybe jealous Yahweh felt that goddess worship was vile, but I don't believe it to be an intrinsically evil practice.

As a matter of fact, I don't see how any religion can be considered to address the whole of existence without address the duality of male and female aspects of life. Yahweh seems to want to diminish, even oppress the feminine aspects of spirituality. That just can't be healthy!

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

I think Mother stepped aside and did not let Herself be known as to not arise questions that the perspectives of the lower intellectual, typically blindly religious, men can not fathom.

As there is Father, there is Mother, they are both equal. But, as you have stated, man is to not know of her for various reasons. All females above are to report to her. All males, report to Father or their superior, if they are lower ranking.