President Obama Speaks Today: Directly Addressing Gun Control, Assault Weapons, and Mental Health

Originally posted by PrincessTofu
www.sfgate.com... -nets-hundreds-4121621.php

Hurtado was among hundreds of Bay Area residents who dropped off their firearms at buyback locations in Oakland and San Francisco on Saturday, collecting $200 cash for their weapon, no questions asked.

Perhaps they should have gun buy-back programs like this in every city, every day of the week. I think that could get guns out of the hands of some bad people.

edit on 20-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)

Perhaps police should participate as well. I witnessed a cop shoot a young man in a bart train station there at point blank. This young man was unarmed and cuffed behind his back. Time to disarm police as well and give them psychiatric evaluations too.

I believe in leadership by example. Before Obama talks about any gun bans, he should disarm the secret service to show us all that we do not need guns to be safe. Any politician who talks about gun control while surrounded by bodyguards armed with machine guns and sniper rifles is a hypocrite.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
I believe in leadership by example. Before Obama talks about any gun bans, he should disarm the secret service to show us all that we do not need guns to be safe. Any politician who talks about gun control while surrounded by bodyguards armed with machine guns and sniper rifles is a hypocrite.

Thank you NavyDoc for that shot of reality wisdom! It is sorely needed this morning!

Why can't people wake up and smell the hypocrisy?

reply to post by littled16


It is public knowledge that the government ordered hundreds of millions of rounds of hollow point ammunition. Military expenditures on weaponry and weapon-based research have soared. The guns that are removed from our shelves may yet be utilized, but will it be by the people or on the people?

reply to post by AxelAxel
While we cannot know the future, we can certainly make educated guesses about the possibilities. If the average citizen is no longer able to arm themselves in such a way as to defend against a military type takeover it would be much easier for any corrupt government that would attempt such a takeover to execute such an action.

reply to post by littled16


The corrupt takeover is something that occurred in the past. We have been told time and time again, even by our own presidents, what has happened. The dancing puppets in America like being told what's good for them. Freedom is no longer a given. I certainly don't feel free. If I were to dedicate my life to battling this corruption publicly I would be killed. If I were to peacefully protest the government in the streets the police hired to protect me may arrest me, or use chemical weapons on me. If I was to voice to my peers in college my opinions I would be ridiculed as a conspiracy theorist. Every step has been taken, social engineering has been extremely effective, and no matter how you look at it it's hard to find hope

And that was part of a sitting presidents farewell speech.Be very very careful with what you wish for, because you just may get it, and the end game may not be favorable to your own interests. The integrity of democratic governance is something that must always be fought for, as there are always people and groups with designs to usurp ultimate control.This is not Hollywood fantasy or conspiracy theory. These are real life threats and real life aspirations of conscious intent to control. Every right, liberty, and freedom will continuously be chipped away at until there are no longer rights, but only privileges.I hear some people argue that with the current capability of the military that any weapons the populace has would be rather ineffective. So the answer is to render the populace completely impotent? I'd rather have a punchers chance than no chance at all in the event armed defiance were necessary. How can people not see where this road leads? The only answer I have is a lack of historical wisdom.

reply to post by Jomina


Very well put and concurrence from my perspective as well.

This tactic has been used throughout our history to create an emotionally, biased conclusion of the masses making the 'knee-jerk reaction all the more damaging to our freedoms and liberties.
I too found fault with many of the undertones inside the speech, not when I heard it, but as I read it, for reading text provides a much clearer picture of the actual meaning behind it.

It is truly shameful, that many Americans permit our so called leaders to assault their senses and rational by using tactics such as this to inevitably subvert our rights.

Originally posted by Siberbat
So what's the answer folks? Those of you who are so insulted, what is the answer? Do we arm everyone and have an all out melee? You gonna forciblly remove the criminal element out of your communities? Let vigilanties roam the streets in the middle of the night? None of that is feasible. Weekend Rambos who wish to feel power in the palm of thier hands. Let's be honest, the propsed "assult rifle ban" is not about the 2nd ammendment...its about control freaks with egos as large as their magazine capacity, who want to keep their "toys" because its fun and they paid hard earned money for 'em. And by god, they gonna use 'em!

I don't think that is what the founding fathers had in mind. In fact, they may say, "My God what have we done." See many don't give a second thought as to what could happen if their weapons fall into the wrong hands. Where do criminals get these weaponse in the first place...by burglerizing law abiding gun owner's homes. So, we should ask ourselves, "Is it really necessary to have weapon which can empty a 30 round clip as fast as one can pull the trigger?"

If it is a matter of home defense, less is really more. Why use 30 rounds when 3 could do the job just fine?

I'm not anti-gun, and I believe in concealed carry to protect oneself and others. I just don't see the sanity of having a semi-auto rifle with high capacity clips. What's wrong with bolt action rifles and the trustly revolver?

This is the biggest problem with the entire issue.

You don't see a use so it should be banned? When has that EVER been the standard for legislation?

I don't see a single logical use for tobacco and it kills millions of people every year... why don't we ban that? Oh, because millions of people enjoy using tobacco. Well ok, for the sake of those people, let's not ban it.

How hard is it to grasp that concept?

Originally posted by Hefficide

The danger, now, is not just the debate over what constitutes an "assault weapon" - [color= red]but also what constitutes "mental health".

That is the part that worries me the most. The health care industry and big pharma want EVERYONE to be classified as having some form of metal health problem, either it being for monatary gain or political. I cannot recall where I read it atm, but they are classifying almost anything as some form of disorder or another. This is concerning in and of it's self, not to mention with the TV ads saying you ever feel like.. blah blah blah.. ask your doctor about this (insert drug name here).

Now you throw into the mix they are trying to kid every child diagnosed with some form of mental disorder from ADD or what not, they are settting the rules in place to barring people from getting to own firearms before they are even able to purchase their first one, effectively disarming the populatin a generation at a time.

Now the other part of this 'mental health' problem I see coming to bear, is the "you cannot own or have a firearm of any kind, if someone in your home has a "mental health problem". This is going to start a very very steep and slippery slope.

Logic dictates and is proven that gun control laws do not work period, if they did, these types of events would never occur. People need to understand what the second amendment is truly about, we the people of the United States, ARE THE MILITIA, not the U.S. Military, Reserves, or National Guard, but the citizens of the United States, the citizens of this country are the last line of defense or our great nation, all of our former enemies have known this and why they haven't invaded.

There needs to be education on firearms of all kinds, to help reduce the fear in them, like they had when i was in school, instead of demonizing them to the point of stupidity.

Grim

I'd rather he directly address our failing economy, our repressive government and the complete and total lack of transparency in our corrupt executive branch. But hey, that's just me.

Originally posted by Helious
I'd rather he directly address our failing economy, our repressive government and the complete and total lack of transparency in our corrupt executive branch. But hey, that's just me.

That statement is completely insensitive to the victims and their families. I think you need a mental health evaluation. /sarcasm. Slippery slope indeed. Corrupt Executive Branch? All three branches are corrupt.

And after all of the gun threads in the past week, people still cant differentiate between SEMI automatic and FULL automatic. FULL automatic/assault rifles are already banned. ALL AR-15 rifles sold today are SEMI automatic. Semi - one trigger pull, one shot. Full - keeps shooting until you release the trigger or run out of ammo. "I support them banning automatic weapons" well good because it was already done.

reply to post by Hefficide


Extremely well said!

S&F for your OP and the quoted piece.

Having been around the mental health field since my youth, (not through treatment, but raised by a psychologist) there is a major difference in psychology and psychiatry. There are similarities between the different professions, and many who require only a psychologist end up in the hands of a psychiatrist who; from a professionals perspective, my parent and LCSW, ends up being medicated without having the underlying emotional issues addressed. Those with an Axis 1 diagnosis however do require specific medication to assist them with their daily activities and treatment plan. The vast majority of other Axis diagnosis's require a different approach to their emotional and mental well being.

Here's a link which explains the differences for those wishing to know

www.guidetopsychology.com...

Many psychiatrists who see patients with diagnosis's other than those truly requiring medication, utilize the medical/insurance system to purposely misdiagnose those with other Axises to Axis 1 diagnoses for the purpose of continuing payment. (stated from witnessing my parent a clinical psychologist expose several clinical hospitals' psychiatrists who were actively doing just that)

I will stop here as I do not wish to 'highjack' your thread with irrelevant information.

Originally posted by Boosted90
And after all of the gun threads in the past week, people still cant differentiate between SEMI automatic and FULL automatic. FULL automatic/assault rifles are already banned. ALL AR-15 rifles sold today are SEMI automatic. Semi - one trigger pull, one shot. Full - keeps shooting until you release the trigger or run out of ammo. "I support them banning automatic weapons" well good because it was already done.

It's willful ignorance. They dont want to learn anything at all about what they hate.

I put a picture of a pre-ban AR and a post ban-AR in a gun-grabbers face and asked "which one is full auto" he said both and I replied "wrong" which one is by law the assault rifle and he said "both" I said "wrong" and started explaining the scary horror that is the bayonet lug when he just walked away and gave me the finger.

The dont want to learn anything about what they hate.

Again people listen to what you are asking for.
A restriction on the second amendment.

What's to stop them from restricting the first amendment, after you begged them to restrict the second.

So by next year, new federal laws, and all our guns get sent south of the border for Fast and Furious: the sequel.

Hello illegal market for guns and turning behavioral health hospitals into trial centers with no jury or attorneys that do anything -- speaking from experience -- to prevent forced drugging at the hint of danger from lazy doctors with cut-and-paste diagnoses -- speaking from experience. Your punishment: to be a med zombie.

I have seen it and it is torture by the mental health system. I feel like now they will make it illegal for people who have had a mental illness to even voice opinion for guns. The word "gun" is going to be tied to your medical history. PTSD, veterans? Surprise, no guns for you. That is example one of the ostrich head-in-the-ground policy that is coming around the new year. The politicians have heard it and they are going to jerk that knee and put their foot right up our... you know.

How cerebral of the president to want to over-correct the issue with mental health penalties. Pills and shots penalties, you got it. Medication as the new magic bullet.

The department of defense is too cheap to bullet-proof the schools, so now I see that society is being punished with restrictive laws to prevent someone else's over-indulgence in violence. Thanks men, for punishing women and children with your reckless and impulsive behavior, mentally well and mentally ill, both criminal and politician (is there really a difference some days?). Forget about concepts like "good" and "evil" which people are, not "well" and "ill" in a pathetic politically correct effort.

They are going to drug us harder now. Any peep of mental illness, you're losing your rights.

Instead of creating jobs like staffing schools with security gates, they are going to sell us drugs. This is how Obama cares. Prozac in the city water anybody? Oh no, lithium it will be, even though people like me have iatrogenic side effects to lithium.

Let's name the new mind control pills after the victims of the shooting.

The man suffers from extreme over exposure. No one wants to hear his affected speech any more outside of his hard-core sycophants.

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by AxelAxel

 

While we cannot know the future, we can certainly make educated guesses about the possibilities. If the average citizen is no longer able to arm themselves in such a way as to defend against a military type takeover it would be much easier for any corrupt government that would attempt such a takeover to execute such an action.

You make a good point. We can sit and wait for the judgment. Then protest in marches later if the result isn't to our liking. Some prevention might work though.

Psycho-bullying and creating the mentally ill as scapegoats is not going to prevent crime, but open up weak points in the fabric of society. The mentally well criminals would terrorize the mentally ill non-criminals, knowing that they have no legal rights to self-defense weapons.

The doctor-as-accuser angle is what's wrong. If you are a foreign intelligence group intent on undermining USA society, send in a bunch of doctors to diagnose people out of their rights.

There is always a high crime and misdemeanor charge to bring on an impeachment.

The mobs and mafias don't care anyways. Good, evil, ill, well, legal, illegal...who cares, they're going to find a way to make a buck off of a ban for some crazy person. Then only outlaws will have guns one day, if we sit and wait.

When someone gets trampled go we ban shoes?

I can understand President Obama's speech and his stance.

But had he seriously thought issue throughly through? Seems not.

1. Banning the mentally ill from guns alone will not solve murders, and never had, simply because WHO should decide a mentaly ill or just depressed person temporarily will become a mass murderer?

The solution lays with mental health officers whom will deal with them anyway. Let them make the assesments, at that point of time of desire to purchase gun, on their clients mental health. If they have record of violent behaviour, there is no reason mental health officers would approve such purchases.

But if they had proven themselves rational, had improve their condition, then there is no need to discriminate against them. Not all mentally ill or depressed persons becomes a liability to the nation. It is only those whom sought for violence against innocents that are not sane, and their behaviours can be tracked by records.

As for those who makes no claim to mental illness and thus no records, the responsibility of spotting their behaviour will lay on their parents, relatives and friends, and to seek for help. It will save not only innocents lives, but the perpetrator's life as well.



2. Banning civilians from owning assualt weapons WILL NOT result with the insane and criminals doing the same. Black market abounds, just as crime gangs in every nation.

The solution lays in a more difficult and longer term solution of resolving societal social ills. President Obama and crocodile tear weepers CANNOT expect quick fix solution such as simply banning guns. Guns have their purpose within society and not just for killing innocents, which it never does, as it is never the gun that kills, but the owner of the finger on the trigger.

Had President Obama gone lazy and out of touch with the majority of people, not just whatever numbers the pyschophantic anti-gun media is portraying?