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Are Jesus' Prophecies Subject To Question?

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posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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Many Christians say that all of the old testament prophecies concerning their messiah coming was fulfilled in the new testament. If someone was writing the new testament gospels, wouldn't it be easy to fulfill those prophecies? All they would have to do is look at the old testament and write a story that follows those prophecies.

Some say that this is evidence of reliability but I don't see how that could be considering what I have mentioned above. Maybe someone can shed some light on this for me.
edit on 19-12-2012 by Ralphy because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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That question is a cornerstone of Faith.

My answer for you.....



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Ralphy
 


Your hypothesis is the one that is always in the forefront of my mind and on the tip of my tongue, when Christians cite the Old Testament prophecies as proof of their faith.

The other thing, I'm ready to point out, is that many of the prophecies concerning the coming of a messiah, are fulfilled by and mostly attributed to Cyrus, the King of Persia.


Sometime around 700 BC, God inspired the prophet Isaiah to write a prophecy concerning "His anointed," His messiah. This person would act for God upon earth, conquering kingdoms, rebuilding Jerusalem and the Temple, and shepherding His people. God would go before him—even hold his hand, Isaiah writes—giving him fame, riches and power as only God can.

Jesus Christ? Josiah? Ezra? Nehemiah? Judas Maccabaeus? Not even close! Through Isaiah, God prophesies His anointed to be none other than Cyrus, King of Persia! Read more: www.cgg.org...



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by Ralphy
Many Christians say that all of the old testament prophecies concerning their messiah coming was fulfilled in the new testament. If someone was writing the new testament gospels, wouldn't it be easy to fulfill those prophecies? All they would have to do is look at the old testament and write a story that follows those prophecies.

Some say that this is evidence of reliability but I don't see how that could be considering what I have mentioned above. Maybe someone can shed some light on this for me.
edit on 19-12-2012 by Ralphy because: (no reason given)


Jesus never fullfilled any of the old testament prophecies for the coming messiah. i think there were 5 or maybe 7 specific prophecies that the messiah would fullfill and that is how people would know that he indeed was the messiah.well, jesus didn`t fullfill any of those prophecies thats why the jews don`t accept him as the messiah.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Ralphy
 


If someone was writing the new testament gospels, wouldn't it be easy to fulfill those prophecies? All they would have to do is look at the old testament and write a story that follows those prophecies.

BINGO!!!!!!

Good for you. Yes, it's kind of like "fan-fiction".....
you read a story....you think, "How would this play out?" And you write up the next scene.

EDIT TO ADD:
Like Collaborative Writing.
We have a forum for that, too.....
one person suggests a scenario, and the next person says, "Sure, I can roll with that!"......

edit on 19-12-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Tardacus

Jesus never fullfilled any of the old testament prophecies for the coming messiah. i think there were 5 or maybe 7 specific prophecies that the messiah would fullfill and that is how people would know that he indeed was the messiah.well, jesus didn`t fullfill any of those prophecies thats why the jews don`t accept him as the messiah.


...this is wildly incorrect.
Jesus fulfilled at least 350 prophecies - many of which were fulfilled without His direct action.

www.accordingtothescriptures.org...

There are many reasons why Jesus wasn't accepted as Messiah, but what you've stated isn't one of them. Much of the reason is that the Jews were looking at prophecy without perspective. When the Old Testament prophets wrote, they saw two things: the suffering servant, and the coming King. Many of the OT prophecies lay these two images side by side. The Jews clearly sought the Coming King, to defeat Rome and to unite Israel. What they failed to understand, however, was that the coming King and the suffering servant were one and the same.

The Jews themselves have teachings on this. They talk about Meshiach ben David (the coming King) and Meshiach ben Joseph (the suffering servant).

The difficulty they had was in reconciling the two, realising that they are one and the same - the first and second comings of the one saviour.

It's important also to consider the probability of Christ fulfiling each of the 350+ prophecies spoken of Him. It couldn't BE more remote.

Say what you will about Jesus - His claims are valid.

Now, back to the OP...


Are Jesus' prophecies subject to question?

The basic answer to your question is yes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning... and in fact, you should do so. The Bible commends a group of people called the Bereans, who heard Paul's teaching and "looked into the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so". Christians are to do the same.

The fact is this.
If the Bible is God's Word, and Jesus is the Messiah, then Christians have nothing to worry or feel threatened about. Challenging God's Word is good, and healthy, precisely because God is able to live up to His promises and defend His Word. Neither Christians, nor God Himself, have anything to fear on that front.

So by all means, test.

...but when you do test... honestly look into the Bible... you also have to accept the logical conclusions.
...and that's the hard part.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by Awen24
 


"looked to scriptures for answers"

Do all Christians really believe that the only way to receive information from God is through the bible?

That sounds like a box I'm glad I'm not stuck in.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by Awen24
 


"looked to scriptures for answers"

Do all Christians really believe that the only way to receive information from God is through the bible?

That sounds like a box I'm glad I'm not stuck in.


Not at all, information of God can be received through prayer, can come through meditation of the word of God and finaly through the Holy Spirit. But all that information must be balanced back against the bible. By this I mean your praying and you feel like God is telling you something or to do something. The bible tells us to test the spirits and descern what one is receiving. God would not tell us to kill someone or to rob or do anything like that so if your praying and you feel like your toleave your wife and marry someone elses wife I doubt that that is something God would lead you to do.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 


God told Abraham to kill Isaac. God told that one dude to destroy that city. God split the waters of the Nile and subsequently crashed it onto the Egyptian. God sent plagues. Etc. Etc. Etc.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 


Did or did not god create everything? Is there or is there not murder, war, hunger, rape, slavery, oppression, disease, etc.? Is there another creator of these things? No.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Ralphy
 


Your hypothesis is the one that is always in the forefront of my mind and on the tip of my tongue, when Christians cite the Old Testament prophecies as proof of their faith.

The other thing, I'm ready to point out, is that many of the prophecies concerning the coming of a messiah, are fulfilled by and mostly attributed to Cyrus, the King of Persia.


Sometime around 700 BC, God inspired the prophet Isaiah to write a prophecy concerning "His anointed," His messiah. This person would act for God upon earth, conquering kingdoms, rebuilding Jerusalem and the Temple, and shepherding His people. God would go before him—even hold his hand, Isaiah writes—giving him fame, riches and power as only God can.

Jesus Christ? Josiah? Ezra? Nehemiah? Judas Maccabaeus? Not even close! Through Isaiah, God prophesies His anointed to be none other than Cyrus, King of Persia! Read more: www.cgg.org...


Did you even read your whole link?

It gives a list of the other "anointed ones" along with Cyrus, including King David.

That is clearly not the same as being the Son of God who will be the only one to bring them together into all of the land to live in peace.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Tardacus

Jesus never fullfilled any of the old testament prophecies for the coming messiah. i think there were 5 or maybe 7 specific prophecies that the messiah would fullfill and that is how people would know that he indeed was the messiah.well, jesus didn`t fullfill any of those prophecies thats why the jews don`t accept him as the messiah.


Where do some of you get your information?

"Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus Christ"

www.godonthe.net...



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by guitarplayer
 


God told Abraham to kill Isaac. God told that one dude to destroy that city. God split the waters of the Nile and subsequently crashed it onto the Egyptian. God sent plagues. Etc. Etc. Etc.


You are speaking of the OT the age of law we are in the age of grace a much different time.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by guitarplayer
 


Did or did not god create everything? Is there or is there not murder, war, hunger, rape, slavery, oppression, disease, etc.? Is there another creator of these things? No.


All of this a result of the fall the bible clearly states that God did not create hell for punishment of mankind. Let me ask you this if you had a child and raised it to the best of your abilities and that child turned out to be a murderer is that your fault is it Gods fault? Or is it a personal decision of that child to be a murderer?



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 


Oh. I thought we were in the information age.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 


All of the above.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by Ralphy
 





Many Christians say that all of the old testament prophecies concerning their messiah coming was fulfilled in the new testament. If someone was writing the new testament gospels, wouldn't it be easy to fulfill those prophecies? All they would have to do is look at the old testament and write a story that follows those prophecies


Prophecy doesn't work that way. Only a prophet with the spirit of God on him could even interpret those prophecies correctly. But, someone did willingly and knowingly fulfill those prophecies. Jesus did and he knew he was doing it.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 08:41 AM
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OP, your point is interesting, and I have wondered about it myself in years past. However, having discovered the heptatic structure of the Biblical text, I know that the Bible is really a single document from one end to the other, however you divide verse, chapter, and book. Such unity means that the NT was not cribbed.

"Thy logic is in abeyance."



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Yes. I read the whole link. Cyrus is credited by biblical scholars to have fulfilled the messiah prophecies of Isaiah and of a few other prophets as well.


A messiah is a saviour or liberator of a people in the Abrahamic religions.

In the Hebrew Bible a messiah (or mashiach) is a king or High Priest traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil. However, messiahs were not exclusively Jewish kings, as the Hebrew Bible refers to Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, as a messiah, for his decree to rebuild the Jerusalem Temple.

The Jewish messiah is a leader anointed by God, physically descended from the Davidic line, who will rule the united tribes of Israel and herald the Messianic Age of global peace also known as the World to Come.
en.wikipedia.org...






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