The Other "Dark Knight Rises" 'Conspiracy'

I was going to title this "The Real Dark Knight Rises" "Conspiracy" as I think what I'm about to present you, mundane as it may seem to some, is indeed a real, fairly "believable" conspiracy. However, I didn't want to invalidate any circulating ideas about the Aurora shooting, hence the title you see. On that note, I feel this subforum is appropriate, but if a mod feels it would be better in the Skunkworks, that's fine. It does contain an element of speculation, though what I'm pointing out about the film is incontrovertible.


Here's why i say not by much: Writers use fiction as a means to impress our ideas about life and reality on to our readers / viewers. This is done quite intentionally. Anyone who has taken a high school english class (and actually paid attention lol) can tell you this. This is why "theme" is an important consideration for a writer. Some stories do this more than others, of course. Some barely seem to have a detectable theme (more rare, IMO) and some have a theme so heavy-handed it's like the author tried to beat you over the head with it.

Now, as I was watching this film, The Dark Knight Rises, it did not take long for a certain "theme" to strike me. If you haven't yet seen the film, I warn you that this will include some very minor spoilers. I will, however, keep that to a minimum and will only reveal one (not pivotal) scene, and one pivotal plot point.


1-Very early in the film, the character "Miranda" (a somewhat pivotal character in this film) makes a comment that seems disparaging toward the wealthy class of Gotham.

2- There is a scene where "Selina" (Cat Woman) is dancing with Bruce Wayne at a ball. We have already found out that Selina is a thief. The elite kind of thief, who steals from the wealthy. Bruce Wayne makes a comment about Selina likening herself to a "Robin Hood" type. Selina makes disparaging comments toward the wealthy.

3-Then, we later have the films primary antagonist, Bane, bursting into the stock exchange with his crew of thugs. One of the traders makes a comment to Bane to the effect of "There's no money here for you to steal," to which Bane replies "Then what are you people doing here?"



There are other instances, but I'll leave it there for sake of brevity. What I'm getting at, is that this film repeatedly, thematically shows the "bad guys" as being the lower classes, and those who think there should be greater financial equality in society. Meanwhile the "good guys" are primarily the police... or better, The Authorities, and people like Billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne. It had a 1% vs 99% vibe so thick you could cut it with a knife. And of course, the 99% are the portion of the population most of the "bad guys" are from.

The repeated instances of this topic mean that it is far more than a coincidence. This is clearly a theme inserted into the plot on purpose. The only point of speculation or debate, is why, exactly this was done.

Next, and I'll admit that this one is a bit more speculative: Many of you believe that events of 9/11 were foreshadowed in films, television shows, etc. Much evidence of this can be found online, and nicely illustrated in a number of youtube videos. The reasons for this are unclear. Some may see it as purely strange synchronicity. Some believe such references were intentionally placed. Those of us who believe in a strong, tangible link between thought, emotion, and the manifestation of reality might see the value in doing something like this, assuming something like 9/11 might have been a "false flag" event.

Many of you have speculated another upcoming "false flag" event, and many have speculated that it would happen at a sporting event. The last Olympics and the Superbowl have been prime targets of such speculation. Some even believe that a planned false flag at a recent superbowl was averted by knowledge of this being spread far and wide on the internet. And what is it we see happen in The Dark Knight Rises? We see explosions going off at a football game. This could, of course, be purely coincidental. In fact, many films over the years have used a plot device of a bomb at a sporting event. Then again, as mentioned, many films over the years made references of planes flying into buildings, etc.

Good points. I noticed the thing you mentioned about the higher class being portrayed as the good guys too.
That whole movie (actually ALL movies these days) wreak of subtle and not so subtle brainwashing techniques.

As for it being a message to a false flag, I agree. I want to remind everyone of this article that predicted imminent false flags I think most people forgot:

theintelhub.com...

reply to post by iwilliam


It's no secret that the movie has been likened to the OWS crowd in regards to the theme against the wealthy and the bankers. This was talked about a lot when the first extended trailers of it were released on-line.

reply to post by iwilliam


I'm curious...are you a Batman fan?

Because if you are you would clearly understand the role of the League of Shadows.

They are an elitist, anti materialist, anti capitalist, anarchist, naturalist organization. The wealthy and modern society have always been their target.

So how is this "conspiratorial", Nolan simply used the archetype which was illustrated in the comic book and put it on screen. This is actually why I did not like the movie, because it was just a rehash of the plot of Batman Begins.

"There's no money here for you to steal," to which Bane replies "Then what are you people doing here?"

That was one of my favorite lines throughout the whole film

There are other instances, but I'll leave it there for sake of brevity. What I'm getting at, is that this film repeatedly, thematically shows the "bad guys" as being the lower classes and those who think there should be greater financial equality in society.

Actually no, because the League of Shadows had no intention of returning Gotham to the people or spread equality, this was all just a cover to further torture modern society before their magnum opus of detonating the nuclear device, they were elitists.

Meanwhile the "good guys" are primarily the police... or better, The Authorities, and people like Billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne. It had a 1% vs 99% vibe so thick you could cut it with a knife. And of course, the 99% are the portion of the population most of the "bad guys" are from.

Well yes the police were the good guys, what else were they supposed to be? The police are there to serve the people right? So it makes sense that James Gordon and his police force would be on the good side. I also dont really see the 1% vs the 99% vibe, if anything Bane was trying to create the illusion that there was some form of battle that must be fought between the classes to create chaos, and thus be able to carry out the plan of the destruction of Gotham without interference.

Those of us who believe in a strong, tangible link between thought, emotion, and the manifestation of reality might see the value in doing something like this, assuming something like 9/11 might have been a "false flag" event.

All of which honestly has been thoroughly debunked, bet I guess as long you put the word "believe" in there you can just throw logic and reason out the window.

The last Olympics and the Superbowl have been prime targets of such speculation. Some even believe that a planned false flag at a recent superbowl was averted by knowledge of this being spread far and wide on the internet.

Yeah which I find hysterical, the event you predict does not come true so you just claim you averted it through your spreading of the "truth", feel special now don't we. A more reasonable conclusion is that it was just all lies and conjecture spread by those caught up in a paranoid delusion.

Originally posted by Openeye
reply to post by iwilliam

 

I'm curious...are you a Batman fan?

Because if you are you would clearly understand the role of the League of Shadows.

They are an elitist, anti materialist, anti capitalist, anarchist, naturalist organization. The wealthy and modern society have always been their target.

So how is this "conspiratorial", Nolan simply used the archetype which was illustrated in the comic book and put it on screen. This is actually why I did not like the movie, because it was just a rehash of the plot of Batman Begins.

Originally posted by Openeye
...the League of Shadows had no intention of returning Gotham to the people or spread equality, this was all just a cover to further torture modern society before their magnum opus of detonating the nuclear device, they were elitists.

I've always liked batman and (some of) the films, but I've never regularly read the comics. I was more into Marvel / Image / Darkhorse and other "independent" stuff when I used to be into comics.

As such, I am not familiar with what you're talking about. I take your word for it, but I'm not familiar. Further, I think your point here is somewhat irrelevant. They did not elaborate on or make this clear in the film, which is my topic here. How many people read those comics? Now how many people watch a film like this? Movies are not only a greater medium for dissemination of ideas on a larger scale, but they do not always follow the written works to the letter. Often liberties are taken, and changes made. I'm sure this isn't a new concept to you.

I do not believe this omission of back-story was accidental, or for the sake of brevity in this two-and-a-half hour film. I could be wrong there.

The movie is different, from what you say, than the comics. And movies are never made by one, or two, or three, or even a small handful of individuals. Not movies like this. They are made by large groups. And some guy at the top, with money and the ability to pull strings does get to dictate which elements are acceptable, and what should remain on the cutting room floor. Movie production involves a certain kind of politics that make it an inherently different medium than comic books.

Originally posted by Openeye
Well yes the police were the good guys, what else were they supposed to be? The police are there to serve the people right? So it makes sense that James Gordon and his police force would be on the good side.

I did not just say "police." That is why I corrected myself and said, "or better, The Authorities," as this includes local government. The Establishment. That is what I'm getting at. I find this vibe undeniable in the FILM.

Further, not everyone sees the government, the establishment, or even "the police" (as a generalized kind of thing) to be "the good guys," and not all films portray them as such. But this wasn't just the cops, the local government, essentially "The Establishment," but also the establishment and the wealthy elite, most nicely symbolized (though not solely) by Bruce Wayne.


Regarding the rest, that is as I said far more speculative and much of it is subject to personal view and opinion. You may feel some of what I mentioned was "thoroughly debunked" though I do not agree, and I saw you provide no evidence of such.

PS-- Nice "title." Lateralus FTW.

PPS-- If the writer / producers had stuck to the comic book plot as you describe it, that could be seen as even worse. It could be seen as giving the message that those who represent or fight for "the 99%" (or whatever label you might want to put on the powerless masses) are just as bad or little different than the "elite" 1%

reply to post by iwilliam

They did not elaborate on or make this clear in the film, which is my topic here.

No they made this very very clear, throughout the film and in the previous film Batman Begins and to a lesser extent The Dark Knight. I'm sorry that you didn't notice it or if other people did not notice it but that happens in films sometimes, just go talk to people about the meaning of the Matrix trilogy or Inception and see how many people missed the point.

And movies are never made by one, or two, or three, or even a small handful of individuals. Not movies like this. They are made by large groups. And some guy at the top, with money and the ability to pull strings does get to dictate which elements are acceptable, and what should remain on the cutting room floor. Movie production involves a certain kind of politics that make it an inherently different medium than comic books

Yes there many people involved with the production of the film, however Nolan had complete creative control over the film. Its actually very rare for producers to change a film because they dont like it, the only real example of this that I can think of at the moment is when Weinstein changed the last scene in Kill Bill vol 2 because they believed the film was already too long.

Movie production involves a certain kind of politics that make it an inherently different medium than comic books.

Not really, I would agree that there is possibly a little more politics involved than the literature market, but Hollywood turns out anti establishment and controversial stuff all the time, they are not concerned with politics they are concerned with profit. The propaganda machine that Hollywood was back in the 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's is practically non existent, because of artists backlash. Now its just a corporate machine that wants to make money more than a point.

Further, not everyone sees the government, the establishment, or even "the police" (as a generalized kind of thing) to be "the good guys," and not all films portray them as such. But this wasn't just the cops, the local government, essentially "The Establishment," but also the establishment and the wealthy elite, most nicely symbolized (though not solely) by Bruce Wayne.

So I guess I have to ask, what is wrong with this? Can government not be good? Can't authority figures be just? And you are right that the police and or government are not always the good guys, in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight the police force and the local government were horribly corrupt, it took the death of Harvey Dent to start a long reformation period. As for Bruce Wayne yes hes rich, so what? Actually in the movie he was not rich he was actually broke (I know not really relevant), but he is also Batman, who is an anti authority figure and a vigilante who fights for the common man.

The message of the film in the end was "Hope", both for a better future and a world where the authority actually works in the best interests of the people instead of the interest of the state, and in my opinion that is a good message, although a tad cliche.

Regarding the rest, that is as I said far more speculative and much of it is subject to personal view and opinion. You may feel some of what I mentioned was "thoroughly debunked" though I do not agree, and I saw you provide no evidence of such.

Well I provided no evidence of such because it was a little off topic I guess, but all you have to do is go to the 9/11 threads or all the threads that had to do with the 2012 Olympics and read the rebuttals to the "theories" claimed by Alex Jones and his like.

reply to post by iwilliam

PPS-- If the writer / producers had stuck to the comic book plot as you describe it, that could be seen as even worse. It could be seen as giving the message that those who represent or fight for "the 99%" (or whatever label you might want to put on the powerless masses) are just as bad or little different than the "elite" 1%

Sometimes that is the case, just because a group claims to represent the people does not necessarily mean that they have their best interests at heart.

The League of Shadows (aka the League of Assassins in the comic books) would like to eliminate most of the population because they believe it would be beneficial to the masses, this does not make them correct despite them working for the "best interests of the world".