Science against evolution

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posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


Well, there was:



I see then it just must be a coincedence that 99.9% of the species fit in or have a nitch here and we don't. From


from

post by itsthetooth
And




Is there some type of theory to fill this giant gap on what we are suppose to eat? Or do we just become scavangers? I doubt it because 99.99% of the things here on earth have a suited diet


And



What are we suppose to eat? Keep in mind that humans are part of the .009% that don't fit in with diet.


From this

post by itsthetooth

And also,



Now with 99.99% or possibly 99.999% this life fits into what is obviously known as a balanced eco system. Humans do not appear to be eco friendly to this planet.


From
post by itsthetooth


ETA - Have fixed the links, they should take you directly to the correct post now
edit on 19-2-2013 by idmonster because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



Well from what I read it appeard to be more either unprocessed or undigested food.

Elephants do not eat their own feces and it is mainly undigested. Are you now claiming elephants don't poop?


They never say fecal pellet, and this is not proof that its part of his intended diet. It should be no shocker as he is not in his Target Food to begin with.

Actually, my links did. And we have only been able to get a definition of diet after a long effort. TF is still only an unsubstantiated opinion.


I never denied that it occured, all I'm saying is that there is no proof that it's a correct path.

False.


I think you missed the point, all I'm saying is that he isn't suppose to.

Opinion of no value.


First of all it doesn't appear to be feces as its undigested food, secondly its not proof that he is suppose to be eating it.
The part that your not understanding is that depending on how far from Target Food the rabbit is, will make a difference on the pressure thats placed on him to eat undigested poop.

It's poop. It's been through the digestive system.
Rabbits eat their own poop. They start at an early age. The idea that they are supposed to eat it is something you dreamed up and is an unsubstantiated opinion. TF at this point is just your vague opinion.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



But there is no proof they are suppose to be eating poo, your just assuming.

Many animals only eat poop. Many animals eat poop and other things as well.

This claim of yours that animals are supposed to eat particular things is just a fantasy of yours at this point.

This notion that things are directed is just as false here as when you claim evolution is directed.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 





I have no idea what you mean by intended food at this time. Still trying to get you to define what you mean by diet.

Rabbits and many, many creatures eat poop as a food source.
If you don't know what the term diet means, you are seriously in the wrong phase of the debate.




Now that you claim that eating a non-habitual food is not experimentation, what do you call it? You say it is not part of the diet.
You seriously have a problem with your definitions.


ha·bit·u·al
/həˈbiCHo͞oəl/Adjective
1.Done as a habit.
2.Regular; usual: "his habitual dress".



Habitual google


Experimentation Web definitions
experiment: the testing of an idea; "it was an experiment in living"; "not all experimentation is done in laboratories"


experiment: the act of conducting a controlled test or investigation
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


Experiments is the step in the scientific method that arbitrates between competing models or hypotheses. Experimentation is also used to test existing theories or new hypotheses in order to support them or disprove them. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimentation


(experimenting) the relationship stage that involves the exchange of small talk.
highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0072400773/student_view0/glos…


the process of testing a hypothesis by collecting data under controlled, repeatable conditions
education.jlab.org/beamsactivity/6thgrade/vocabulary/index.htm…


One process by which scientists attempt to understand nature. A phenomenon is observed and/or manipulated so that changes in the phenomenon's state can be seen. The resulting data can be used to derive new models of a process or to confirm an existing model. ...
mitpress.mit.edu/books/FLAOH/cbnhtml/glossary.html


on human beings is not the work of a few aberrant doctors; it is systemic, because it is the system by which modern western medicine works.
www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Human-experimentation

/ex]Experimentation google

As you can see, experimentation is more about testing, and habitual is more about habbit.

There is never anything listed in diets about animals testing food.




OK then let me repeat your definition for diet "A diet is any number of foods that a species habitually consumes."

Here are a few things to think about in your definition of diet.
So for a rabbit feces are a part of its diet.
Sure but based on the findings, its clear that he may not suppose to be eating it. It appears that he is only making use of the undigested food, it doesn't mean its normal.




Coastal brown bears eat salmon. That is a part of their diet. An inland brown bear eats almost no salmon. Thus brown bears do not all share the same diet.
Thats right because the diet isn't available in that area. You can't put parakeets in a cage and feed them seed and expect them to eat cow.




Deer eat dirt to obtain minerals. Dirt is part of a deer's diet.
I have never seen anything about that.




Caterpillars eat leafy material, but butterflies drink nectar. Are both part of their diets or neither is part of their diet?
Obviously his diet changes when he changes species.




Female mosquitoes consume blood, but male mosquitoes do not. Is blood part of a mosquitoes diet?
They both eat nectar, plant sap and honeydew.

Obviously only the females drink blood to help with protien.
In this case they have to be seperated as they do not share the blood diet.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by idmonster
 





I see then it just must be a coincedence that 99.9% of the species fit in or have a nitch here and we don't. From



from

post by itsthetooth
And
Just cause they fit in doesn't mean they are from here, I don't understand.




What are we suppose to eat? Keep in mind that humans are part of the .009% that don't fit in with diet.
This was based on the fact that animals seem to have their needs with diet figured out, whlie we don't.




ETA - Have fixed the links, they should take you directly to the correct post now
Balance is forcing out species that don't fit in, while humans are the most dangerous.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 





Elephants do not eat their own feces and it is mainly undigested. Are you now claiming elephants don't poop?
No I'm claiming they don't eat it.




They never say fecal pellet, and this is not proof that its part of his intended diet. It should be no shocker as he is not in his Target Food to begin with.

Actually, my links did. And we have only been able to get a definition of diet after a long effort. TF is still only an unsubstantiated opinion.
The patterns say otherwise.




I never denied that it occured, all I'm saying is that there is no proof that it's a correct path.

False.
You are unable to prove they are suppose to eat undigested poop.

And I'll tell you why your wrong and how I know your wrong. If he ate poop from many other species this conversation would be different.




I think you missed the point, all I'm saying is that he isn't suppose to.

Opinion of no value.
It's not opinion when all the facts say otherwise.




It's poop. It's been through the digestive system.
Rabbits eat their own poop. They start at an early age. The idea that they are supposed to eat it is something you dreamed up and is an unsubstantiated opinion. TF at this point is just your vague opinion.
Wrong, I think the fact that he only eats his own poop and not others is an obvious clue.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 





Many animals only eat poop. Many animals eat poop and other things as well.

This claim of yours that animals are supposed to eat particular things is just a fantasy of yours at this point.

This notion that things are directed is just as false here as when you claim evolution is directed.
I would like to see that list of poop eaters. The ones that only eat poop. Wrong, the fact that species have a diet is proof that its not a fantasy. I have never seen any proof that evolution is not directed.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



Well from what I read it appeard to be more either unprocessed or undigested food.
How do you always, without fail, when you finally read something you manage to misunderstand what was written every time?

Rabbits reingest their own droppings (rather than chewing the cud as do cows and many other herbivores) to digest their food further and extract sufficient nutrients.[16]



They never say fecal pellet, and this is not proof that its part of his intended diet.
Coprophagia

Soft fecal pellets of partially digested food are excreted and generally consumed immediately.
So you are wrong again


It should be no shocker as he is not in his Target Food to begin with.
There is no such thing as target food. Your golden rule says so.


I never denied that it occured, all I'm saying is that there is no proof that it's a correct path.
The 'correct path'? You 'never denied it occurred'?



I think you missed the point, all I'm saying is that he isn't suppose to.
Show evidence to support your fantasy because that is how the gut of the rabbit works. That is why it passes two types of fecal pellets. Why do you think it does that? Can you do that?



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



If you don't know what the term diet means, you are seriously in the wrong phase of the debate.

The problem is that you use terms in a manner completely different from everyone else. That is why I need to determine what you mean by diet.


You seriously have a problem with your definitions.

No, it's you. Everyone in this thread knows what the word evolution means in science. Every post you show that you do not.

I suspect that the same is true of the way you use the terms diet, habitually, experimentation, etc. You're already showing that you want to change the meaning of feces for some unknown reason. You want to use your own personal definition.

Her you choose the meaning of habitual. You gave two different definitions. They are not the same, right?

1.Done as a habit.
2.Regular; usual: "his habitual dress".



From this would you say that brown bears have fish as part of their diet even though most brown bears rarely eat fish? The coastal brown bears only eat fish during runs, which is a short part of the year. It makes for nice photos and drama, but is this a part of their diet? You might use definition 1 for yes and definition 2 for no.

You provide a number of definitions for experimentation. Notice there are multiple different definitions of experimentation in your list. According to almost everything posted it is clear that most animals experiment with food according to the provided definitions.


As you can see, experimentation is more about testing, and habitual is more about habbit.
There is never anything listed in diets about animals testing food.

See here is your problem. Your definition of diet considers only habitual foods. All other foods are not part of the diet of the animals. That is according to your definition. Thus any feeding of none dietary foods is possibly experimentation.

Your claim that "never anything listed in diets about animals testing food" is really just your opinion or based on your limited research. This just suggests that because you did not find something it does not exist. That's a logical fallacy.


Sure but based on the findings, its clear that he may not suppose to be eating it. It appears that he is only making use of the undigested food, it doesn't mean its normal.

All of my links stated it was normal. Not sure why you are squirming so much. It appears that you want to project your personal likes onto situations. Rabbits begin to eat their own poop in the first few weeks of life and continue till they die. That makes poop part of their diet according to your definition.


Thats right because the diet isn't available in that area. You can't put parakeets in a cage and feed them seed and expect them to eat cow.

Your cage thing is not applicable since the same bear can travel to areas with and without fish.

All I want to be clear on is that it is normal for individuals in a species to have different diets. There is no diet for a species. Diet applies to individuals, not species.


I have never seen anything about that.

Then take the time to learn about deer and eating dirt. All deer members do it as well as many other animals. So now we know that inorganics such as dirt can be part of a diet.


Obviously his diet changes when he changes species.

The caterpillar and the butterfly are the same species. They do not change species.


They both eat nectar, plant sap and honeydew.

Obviously only the females drink blood to help with protien.
In this case they have to be seperated as they do not share the blood diet.

Just as not all brown bears share the same diet due to geographic issues, some species do not the share the same diet due to gender issues.

Do not forget about butterflies that have diets dependent on life cycle stages.


edit on 19-2-2013 by stereologist because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



No I'm claiming they don't eat it.

Elephants do not eat their own poop. That is true. What matters is that the reasoning you give to claim that rabbits do not eat feces is wrong. Your claim is demonstrably wrong. It is poop.


The patterns say otherwise.

Meaningless comment.


You are unable to prove they are suppose to eat undigested poop.

And I'll tell you why your wrong and how I know your wrong. If he ate poop from many other species this conversation would be different.

This idea of "suppose to" is something wacky only you mention. It does not exist. The fact is that rabbits each their own poop. I don't need to or are interested in proving that anything is supposed to eat this or that. It's your wacky idea you prove it. The onus is on you to prove these wacky ideas.


It's not opinion when all the facts say otherwise.

There are no facts, only your opinion.


Wrong, I think the fact that he only eats his own poop and not others is an obvious clue.

Female rabbits also eat their own poop. It's poop. It comes out their ass. It's poop.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by idmonster
 
Where have you been Id?

We have moved on from there. Tooth now says nothing is from here. So all those pages where he claimed man was not natural as he was not from here it appears nothing is from here and nothing is natural so the link to his post is 'redundant'. This is a brand new version of tooth's folly

But of course when he changed this (what use to be a fact) the rest of his mumbo jumbo fell apart. Now when you apply tooth’s golden rule to tooth's claims target food fails every time.

He now cannot claim only man gets illness because he does not have target food and cannot live past puberty without medical intervention as ALL organic life here does not have target food but cannot answer how they live past puberty.

So tooth lied and misled for over a year when he knew the bible said nothing was from here except maybe bacteria.

Well that's what he says now and as things are not going well for him is is trying to move his goalposts again



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



I would like to see that list of poop eaters. The ones that only eat poop. Wrong, the fact that species have a diet is proof that its not a fantasy. I have never seen any proof that evolution is not directed.

Several links have been provided with large lists of poop eaters. Now go back and read instead of skipping over the material and spewing worthless opinions.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



But there is no proof they are suppose to be eating poo, your just assuming.
Seeing as though you have refused to supply the diet for the dung beetle I will do it for you Dung Beetle
The Dung beetle not only eats dung but spends his whole life cycle deep in dung.

Life for the dung beetle really is $hite



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 





Well from what I read it appeard to be more either unprocessed or undigested food.

How do you always, without fail, when you finally read something you manage to misunderstand what was written every time?
Rabbits reingest their own droppings (rather than chewing the cud as do cows and many other herbivores) to digest their food further and extract sufficient nutrients.[16]
This is because the food they are eating is not the correct food.




They never say fecal pellet, and this is not proof that its part of his intended diet.

Coprophagia
Soft fecal pellets of partially digested food are excreted and generally consumed immediately
Why is he eating his own poop and no one elses, how dishonest can you be trying to make it look otherwise.




So you are wrong again


It should be no shocker as he is not in his Target Food to begin with.

There is no such thing as target food. Your golden rule says so.
When are you going to get it colin, that Target Food is a relationship between the consumer and the food not the planet and the consumer?




The 'correct path'? You 'never denied it occurred'?
So in other words all things that happen are natural. your wrong.




Show evidence to support your fantasy because that is how the gut of the rabbit works. That is why it passes two types of fecal pellets. Why do you think it does that? Can you do that?
Actually quite the opposite, his gut isn't working properly because he's eating the wrong food, which is what I have been telling you all along.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


But I thought your ability to identify animals that weren't from this planet (i.e. us) was based on how well an animal fits into its environment.

Further, in identifying an animal as natural to its environment (i.e. this planet) one of the key factors in that identification was its utilization of what you call target food or intended diet.

You have also claimed (contradictorily) that the majority of animals fit in here and have there diets sorted, and that they don't! In order to protect your delusion, you assert that animals that fit here, had their habitats brought here with them.

Over a period of 4 months, you have invented a concept that you are unable to define, that of target food.

You have shown that you still don't understand that words have to be used in context in order for the meaning of the word to be clear, and a willful misconstruing of the questions that people ask of you.

It is clear to any observer of this thread, that for every dictionary definition you provide, the actual question being asked is not, "what does xxxxx mean". The question is always, ALWAYS, what do YOU mean when YOU use the word xxxxx.

Having read back over your previous post relating to target, (i seriously need to get another hobby) I have a conclusion. In part I think I understand what you mean, and I sort've agree with you on a few points.

If we were created by an intelligence, it would stand to reason that such an intelligence would also provide for our nutritional needs. To use your analogy, we created the car, and provided a single fuel for it. (refined petroleum i think covers diesil, gas, petrol etc)

I get it.

If each animal on the planet, for its nutritional needs, simply walked over to the feeding station, ate until it was sated, and got on with its business, this would indicate some sort've intelligence involved.

The problem you have, is that no animal on this planet exhibits the traits you require in order for target food to be a viable hypothesis. Untill you demonstrate this, using the scientific method, you will be nothing more than another crackpot posting on internet forums.

As far as the abalone is concerned, the statement that all it eats is Kelp, is pretty much grasping at straws, as there are over 40 varieties of Kelp. Kelp is simply the term we use meaning sea grasses.

As a guide to experimentation, I would suggest that in orde to prove target food, first, identify an animal that you believe matches the criteria. (actual, first, define the criteria and stick with it, reading past post, the criteria for target food changes depending on the argument placed against it)

Second, remove the target food and try other food sources. Some may be successful, and others not so.

Third, Isolate the components within the various food sources that were successful.

Fourth, group all of the components that the animal requires into a single "mush"

Fifth, type the word jelly at the start of your post to prove you read all of this.

Finally, identify a single source that provides all of the requirements of step 3, and is available naturaly (your definition). This is your target food!

Publish your results and become rich.

Now!, you will probably need to do this with many species, and spend quite some time on the experiment. So, if you start now, I guess we'll see you at some point in 2014.

Good luck.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



I would like to see that list of poop eaters. The ones that only eat poop. Wrong, the fact that species have a diet is proof that its not a fantasy. I have never seen any proof that evolution is not directed.
No you would not as this has been done already and you denied it to the point of not answering it This Post

Here is another animal that owes its life to poop The Blue Bottle

A female blue bottle fly lays her eggs where she feeds, usually in decaying meat, garbage, or feces.
Before you ask for a list. There are far too many and you know what happens when you post large lists don’t you


So what you need to do now is stop talking crap here and go research some of your own crap.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 





The problem is that you use terms in a manner completely different from everyone else. That is why I need to determine what you mean by diet.
No I think its more that you feel backed into a corner so your trying to rely on semantics to bail you out.




No, it's you. Everyone in this thread knows what the word evolution means in science. Every post you show that you do not.
Some of the things I say about evolution, I'm just being sarcastic, and I do question a lot of things about it.




I suspect that the same is true of the way you use the terms diet, habitually, experimentation, etc. You're already showing that you want to change the meaning of feces for some unknown reason. You want to use your own personal definition.

Her you choose the meaning of habitual. You gave two different definitions. They are not the same, right?

1.Done as a habit.
2.Regular; usual: "his habitual dress".



Thats not me choosing genius, I'm purposly listing the whole quote from google so you don't try to say I'm cherri picking.




From this would you say that brown bears have fish as part of their diet even though most brown bears rarely eat fish? The coastal brown bears only eat fish during runs, which is a short part of the year. It makes for nice photos and drama, but is this a part of their diet? You might use definition 1 for yes and definition 2 for no.
It's a seasonal food that he is resorting to because he is out of target food.




You provide a number of definitions for experimentation. Notice there are multiple different definitions of experimentation in your list. According to almost everything posted it is clear that most animals experiment with food according to the provided definitions.
Sure, when they are starving.




See here is your problem. Your definition of diet considers only habitual foods. All other foods are not part of the diet of the animals. That is according to your definition. Thus any feeding of none dietary foods is possibly experimentation.
What you mean to say is you would hope that it would be experimentation. Thats not proof. They don't list it as testing food, but here you go with your evolution goggles on making assumptions.




Your claim that "never anything listed in diets about animals testing food" is really just your opinion or based on your limited research. This just suggests that because you did not find something it does not exist. That's a logical fallacy.
Animals only experiment with food when they are starving, period.




All of my links stated it was normal. Not sure why you are squirming so much. It appears that you want to project your personal likes onto situations. Rabbits begin to eat their own poop in the first few weeks of life and continue till they die. That makes poop part of their diet according to your definition.
I don't mean normal in that way, I mean its not natural from the Target Food perspective.




Your cage thing is not applicable since the same bear can travel to areas with and without fish.
That may not be possible for them, maybe they have family to tend to or maybe they are pregnant.




All I want to be clear on is that it is normal for individuals in a species to have different diets. There is no diet for a species. Diet applies to individuals, not species.
Have you lost your marbles? Anyone that has read any number of diets can see thats not the case.




Then take the time to learn about deer and eating dirt. All deer members do it as well as many other animals. So now we know that inorganics such as dirt can be part of a diet.
I guess its possible, but I would question the eating dirt part, its not normal and is a sign of hunger.




Obviously his diet changes when he changes species.

The caterpillar and the butterfly are the same species. They do not change species.
fine, subspecies.




Just as not all brown bears share the same diet due to geographic issues, some species do not the share the same diet due to gender issues.

Do not forget about butterflies that have diets dependent on life cycle stages.
It doesn't matter what the demographics are, we still know thier diet, and if we know their diet, there is no way they are experimenting, especially since the always seem to omit that interesting tale.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 





Elephants do not eat their own poop. That is true. What matters is that the reasoning you give to claim that rabbits do not eat feces is wrong. Your claim is demonstrably wrong. It is poop.
And you would be wrong, the wiki on it specifically states that the fecal pellets are passed by and the undigested food pelets are reeaten.




This idea of "suppose to" is something wacky only you mention. It does not exist. The fact is that rabbits each their own poop. I don't need to or are interested in proving that anything is supposed to eat this or that. It's your wacky idea you prove it. The onus is on you to prove these wacky ideas.
I just did, he is obviously eating his own pellets because there is something wrong with his diet.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 



This is because the food they are eating is not the correct food.
Show your evidence for that claim as rabbits live in pastures where they can find lots of food. That usually means wide open fields with weeds and clover.


Why is he eating his own poop and no one elses, how dishonest can you be trying to make it look otherwise.
Because that is not how his digestive system has evolved


When are you going to get it colin, that Target Food is a relationship between the consumer and the food not the planet and the consumer?
When are you going to get it that your golden rule says no


So in other words all things that happen are natural. your wrong.
Great. Show me the evidence for your claim


Actually quite the opposite, his gut isn't working properly because he's eating the wrong food, which is what I have been telling you all along.
Answer the question. Why does the rabbit produce two different types of fecal pellet? can a cow produce two types of fecal pellet? Can you produce two types of fecal pellet?

Now you explain why a rabbit can and cows and humans cannot



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 


Yup,

Just showing the lack of consistency in his delusion.

Unfortunately for me, it means dipping back into the madness.

I'm hoping that it might shock him back to reality.
Freud only had sexual repression, i could make a career out of this guy.





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