Gun Banning - Why would gun control measures that didn't work in the UK, work in the U.S.? (Hungerf

reply to post by Flavian


what is frightening, that people thought up agenda 21 and the prospect of disarming the US to employ it, or me?

I didnt come up with it and didnt capitalize on kids deaths to push part of it into the social realm. You cant make this stuff up.

EDIT:
People can insist until they are blue in the face. It is not going to happen. The US will NEVER give up its small arms.

Sorry.

Everyplace that had guns and tried to take them away just got more violent because criminals now have a new business, local black market small arms. Instead of being focused on the third world with military hardware, they focus on our home countries with civilian small arms.

That is just insane. NOT worth it.

reply to post by TheDarkTurnip


Which is why it is about various issues. That is totally unavoidable. However, by the same token, to deny the benefits of gun control is equally wrong.

Look it is your choice - you decide. Simply refusing to accept there are benefits to gun control is totally disingenuous though - it is just as bad as those saying that guns are the only problem. In both cases, those are individuals that like to bury their heads in the sand and keep shouting the same answer.

reply to post by TheDarkTurnip


That’s a fair point however a lot has changed since 1987, we may have noticed the increase in these types of mass shootings that America now has so really we will never know if there would have been an increase in mass shootings had Brittan not got strict on guns. What we do know is that with the ban on hand guns for example, it hasn’t happened since we banned them.

Originally posted by TheDarkTurnip
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

Why weren't there huge numbers of mass shootings in the UK before 1988? After all, you could purchase anything available in the USA by simply attending a target shooting club. Shotguns, both semi and pump of any magazine capacity did not need registering and did not even need a certificate before 1967.

The mass shooting rate in the UK has always been low, even when it was relatively straight forward to obtain any firearm.

I blame rap music.. just a hunch. :p

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by TheDarkTurnip

 

That’s a fair point however a lot has changed since 1987, we may have noticed the increase in these types of mass shootings that America now has so really we will never know if there would have been an increase in mass shootings had Brittan not got strict on guns. What we do know is that with the ban on hand guns for example, it hasn’t happened since we banned them.

But stabbing deaths have skyrocketed.. people who want to kill will still do so, regardless of which tool they use to do it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Nah, i blame "lift" musac. Bloody stuff is everywhere now, boiling everyone's blood.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by TheDarkTurnip

 

Which is why it is about various issues. That is totally unavoidable. However, by the same token, to deny the benefits of gun control is equally wrong.

Look it is your choice - you decide. Simply refusing to accept there are benefits to gun control is totally disingenuous though - it is just as bad as those saying that guns are the only problem. In both cases, those are individuals that like to bury their heads in the sand and keep shouting the same answer.

edit on 19-12-2012 by Flavian because: not sure how you would go about burying your head in the head!

What are these benefits? Statistics show that crime increases or is worst in the US in the cities and states with the strictest gun laws. Crime always flows to the path of least resistance.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I blame rap music.. just a hunch. :p

I know you are being sarcastic, but there are loads of social issues that have contributed to this, drugs, sexualisation of society, problems with mental health, glorification of violence, cheaper guns, increased availability, glorification of guns, increasingly secular society, social media and so on.

Guns I do not believe to be the only problem but I think they are a big part of the problem.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Nah, i blame "lift" musac. Bloody stuff is everywhere now, boiling everyone's blood.

Oh yeah, let's not forget video games.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I blame rap music.. just a hunch. :p

I know you are being sarcastic, but there are loads of social issues that have contributed to this, drugs, sexualisation of society, problems with mental health, glorification of violence, cheaper guns, increased availability, glorification of guns, increasingly secular society, social media and so on.

Guns I do not believe to be the only problem but I think they are a big part of the problem.

I was joking. What truly changed culture was the removal of God from the public schools in 1967. Violence is just one piece of the pie. Look at the other social ills that increased on exponential curves after 1967.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I am not aux fait with US crime figures, i will admit. Generally though, crime is higher in the areas that have the highest social issues (poverty, serious drug abuse, alcoholism, etc).

I don't see religion as the answer either although i will admit that some religious teachings (tolerance, peace, etc) should be drummed into every individual on the planet.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I am not aux fait with US crime figures, i will admit. Generally though, crime is higher in the areas that have the highest social issues (poverty, serious drug abuse, alcoholism, etc).

I don't see religion as the answer either although i will admit that some religious teachings (tolerance, peace, etc) should be drummed into every individual on the planet.

I'd suggest doing some research. Violent crime rose 760% after 1962. Before that point it gradually rose in direct proportion to population growth, after 1962 it skyrocketed in an exponential curve.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by TheDarkTurnip

 

That’s a fair point however a lot has changed since 1987, we may have noticed the increase in these types of mass shootings that America now has so really we will never know if there would have been an increase in mass shootings had Brittan not got strict on guns. What we do know is that with the ban on hand guns for example, it hasn’t happened since we banned them.

The revolvers Thomas Hamilton used in the Dunblane massacre are still available - simply with longer barrels to qualify as rifles.

This is what handguns had to look like after the handgun ban. Thomas Hamilton would have STILL shot those children despite a longer barrel on his gun (something that is easily sawn off)



The only thing this restriction does is disqualify our Olympic pistol team. In order to use pistols with the correct barrel length they have to travel outside the UK to any other European country.

Take a look into the Oslo massacre. The way you would obtain a rifle in the UK is similar to how one would obtain a rifle in Norway. An individual planning a massacre would have no problem joining a local club, buying a safe and getting the police to sign off his certificate. Going onto a roof top with a bolt action rifle would cause complete chaos, much more than with a handgun.

Easier still would be to simply 'ask' around. Illegal firearms are plentiful, just like illegal drugs. It's not uncommon for young kids on rough estates to have access to handguns and even sub-machine guns.

Here is a video of one month's worth of illegal firearms seized in London (around 400 - a huge increase relative to the last decade). The black market from eastern Europe channels quite a large number of fully automatic guns, types not normally seen seized in US cities.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I try and stay out of these gun threads because there no point in trying to convince a gun freak, but are you seriously comparing something that happened 10 years apart, to something that seems to happen every other year in the gun states.

Gun crimes are so prevalent in the states that you don't even hear about all of them. If they did, you wouldn't be able to open a newspaper without hearing of someone dying in some gun related crime.

In the states guns are everywhere, break into any home and there a good chance there's a gun in there for you to steal.

What I don't get its why do Americans want to carry guns with them whereevr they go?
Here in Canada if we saw some person walking around carrying a gun (assuming your not in the boonies), there would likely be calls to the local police, but in the states its just business as usual.

ETA:
Illegal firearms ARE NOT plentiful, they might be in the states because YOU LACK GUN CONTROL, but here I wouldn't even know where to begin before getting arrested. I've been offered stolen items, drugs, stuff out of some guys trunk, counterfeit items.... but never a gun.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


I know you didn't come up with it. Sorry I haven't responded much on it. I have read a little bit about it, but I am not well educated on "agenda 21." However I am opposed to the UN having any control over what we do in our country.

reply to post by Kr0nZ


You missed the point too.
It doesn't matter how far apart they happened, what matters is that ever time the killer adjusted his weapon choice according to the new law in the UK and killed about the same amount of people as his predecessor. I don't see what is so hard to get about this.

Also, you guys have a sensationalized idea about what gun culture is in the states. I live in a state with some of the most lax (read: best) gun laws in the country and I see someone with a gun on their hip (open carrying) maybe 2 or 3 times a year (non police of course). It's not that common really. If you come to the US for a trip and you don't stay in the complete ghetto, or have a run in with a cop, you will not see a gun the whole stay, you realize that right?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I wanted to avoid jumping into threads to divert the traffic to mine, but I made a thread outlining the basics of what we are seeing now with the MSM going on overdrive to take advantage of this crisis like was done in the UK with a school shooting to end private gun ownership. The reason for that is outlined there.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I got warned for spamming by posting the content in these threads as a generic response to them, so OP sorry. I didn't want to post links to other threads in yours.

reply to post by TheDarkTurnip



Again I have to give you credit, Oslo is another good point.

I would counter it by pointing out that these things are “one ofs”, sadly the shooting in CT is not a one of, these types of shootings are a common occurrence in America and they are not in the uk.

I watched your video, I do recognise that guns are still a problem in the uk but when we have 58 deaths a year and America has over 8500, I would say that America has a far bigger problem that has to be addressed.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


If they were even half as common as you are trying to make them out to be they wouldnt be news and they certainly would have politicians and special interest groups dancing around for days on end.

They'd be treated like all the other violent acts in cities involving people who are poor and brown. Ignored.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


I don't care man, this is the internet, it's a free for all.