Jesus=medicine.

Before I say anything, I know this is really an odd concept.

After looking at that Math and Freemasonry thread a few days ago, and thought about maybe God isn't physically like us, but just a force of nature or something of that sort, I was thinking maybe Jesus isn't a human afterall. Also consider how the Holy Grail probably isn't a cup, but is a woman.

Now, say both of these are true (I'm not saying that), that means there are some very big metaphorical ideas going through. So what is stopping "Jesus" from not being a human? They said Jesus CURED people and did MIRACLES. Other than the doctor, what else really does this? Medicine. Now think about the picture of Jesus and the Holy Grail... Did you ever think that maybe that the Jesus drink is in all of those cups and curing them all of their sicknesses?

I know this doesn't go along with the Bible at all, but remember according to the Da Vinci Code, there were around 80 possible gospels to make it in, but only a few made it. And those few were very sexist and make Jesus look like a male deity. That is exactly what they wanted at the time.

I suck at explaining my ideas, so it probably didn't come out as I had exactly planned. Oh well.

The problem with your theory is that all the 80 Gospels decribe Jesus as a 'man looking person' not a cup. So from your own evidence your sunk.

However I would say your concept has some merit.

There was a famous film called " The Robe" where the cloak worn by Jesus had certain qualities.

It is reported widely that many have sort the Grail. The Shroud of Turine etc. So there is obviously a concept that anything touched by Christ has some mystical, or religious power.

According to the Bible of course Jesus was not human , he was the son of God, ever lasting.

The Davinci Code was is novel, and has no claim to being a historical document. It is fiction. It is now in the Courts , with other authors claiming the whole thing to be a rip off. you will have to wait and see on that one.

But even if every idea is hard to describe, don't stop trying. The mind is like a muscle, the more you exercise it the stronger it gets.


[edit on 24-10-2004 by billmcelligott]

Well, lemmy start off by saying that I love original ideas regarding religions. This is an interesting one, if a bit misguided.

I like the questioning of Jesus' sex, that has been talked about a bit by scholars, but is generally dismissed for a number of reasons.

Seccond, please please please DO NOT look at The DaVinci Code as the basis for a factual argument. The book was fiction, and the "factual" basis that the author claims it is founded upon is so abhorently wrong that many of my collegues in the fields of Philosophy of Religion and Theology wound up throwing their coppy at something at least a dozen times before finnishing it.

Don't even get me started on the "holy grail" or the Priory Of Scion, those damn nazi jerks!

billmcelligot is right as well the 80 gosples all refer to Jesus as a male.

At any rate, keep on thinking, you're on the right track looking at the bible from as many angles as you can! If you ever want to hear about how some other cults/religions look at the bible feel free to U2U me sometime.

May Peace Travel With You
~Astral

You are not so far off man ....

Jesus = Medicine ... Now think in terms of the red man to define the word " medicine" ...
Example, Sitting Bull is credited with the defeat of custer. It is clear he was not even there but was high in a mountain making "medicine" to be used to claim victory on that day.
This practice is pretty close in concept to what Jesus was doing in Matthew 17 ...
Certain Mtn. peaks are known to be 'power centers' ..

They seek to deceive the man .. they being christians and their religion of christianity, they worship the nephilim ...

Hinduism is probably the modern lifestyle most like what Christ spoke of ...

Originally posted by The Astral City
Seccond, please please please DO NOT look at The DaVinci Code as the basis for a factual argument. The book was fiction, and the "factual" basis that the author claims it is founded upon is so abhorently wrong that many of my collegues in the fields of Philosophy of Religion and Theology wound up throwing their coppy at something at least a dozen times before finnishing it.

Don't even get me started on the "holy grail" or the Priory Of Scion, those damn nazi jerks!

I've heard so many times how false that book is. What are the lies in it? I'd really like to know, so I don't go around blabbering bull#.

And what do you mean about the Priory of Sion and the holy grail?

Hah, please don't leave me in the dark as usual.

Da Vinci Code

Its not a question of lies. Its a Novel, it is clearly reported as a Novel.

Its a good yarn, take it as such.

www.danbrown.com...

Look up a book called "mushrooms and mankind", or do a google search on communion+bread of life+soma that should get you started. I have wealth of information on this topic I can turn you on to if you interested. Anotehr interesting read is "'___' the spirit molecule". I think jesus was an allegory for some very interesting chemicals

Originally posted by twitchy
I think jesus was an allegory for some very interesting chemicals

HAHA Ah "chemicals" the least talked about part of a good many religions.

A friend of mine just wrote a good long paper on the subject of drug induced religious experiences. She got almost no information regarding drugs and early Christianity, almost all of the information has been deleted from reccords, up to the point where someone has actually gone through all of the original texts and doccuments regarding or dating from the early church with a black marker. She also went to a nearby Jesuit university and found the same thing there. Very interesting.

May Peace Travel With You
~Astral

Yes thank god for the internet, as the information is nearly impossible to track down in print. I have devoted a great deal of time and effort in compiling information on Christianity and it's one of it's apparently best kept secrets. There is one real commonality in the worlds religons, but unfortunately it is one of the most suppressed. But based on my conclusions, folks didn't make pilgrimages for hundreds and thousands of miles just to get some stale bread and a blessing

Well, I'm no expert, but having read this and that over the years, I'm fairly sure that Jesus had some fairly good knowledge of different practices of medicine of the times.

That would include some methods picked up in Egypt, as well as technologies taught by the Essenes (he was apparently an Essene rabbi himself) and likely some East Asian medicinal practices as well.

However, what probably made his healing seem so miraculous was the addition of the secret ingredient: Love. For someone who is in pain and despair, a little love can really make the difference.

I'm fairly sure Jesus did exist, and was a man. However, I doubt that he was a "god among us", just a well-educated and compassionate person who seems to have fallen in with the wrong crowd (i.e. the Zealots).

Originally posted by twitchyI have wealth of information on this topic I can turn you on to if you interested.

Please do so.

Cool beans, glad to know there is some interest..
Before we crack into the history here I think it is nessecary to delve a bit into neurochemistry. Bear with me, I'm comming off my head on this for the most part...
There are a class of chemicals known loosely as Indole Alkaloids, most of them are well known and fairly potent halucinagens. Some of these alkaloids are actually produced by the human brain and the central nervous system, and are critical for human consciousness. Note I said Consciousness... Seratonin, melatonin, and '___' are all indole alkaloids and in their own right hallucinagens. The very chemicals that our thought processes are derived from are halucinagenic alkaloids, to think is to 'trip' in a manner of speaking. That in itself to me is profound...
In the synapse of the brain, the presence of these alkaloids tend to act as 'super conductors', especially in the presence of monoatomic metals (i'll get to that one later) enhancing the perception of a broader range of the electormagnetic spectrum, enabling the 'third eye' as some call it. It may not be too far off to call this extrasensory. The pineal gland is of particular interest as it produces not only '___' but a MAOI as well.

"Since these same Psychoactive tryptamines occur in humans, it is possible that their activity may be promoted by the actions of endogenous beta-carbolines for normal psychological processes...
--Tryptamines, Beta-carbolines and You. Dr J.C. Callaway, Dept. of Pharmaceutical Chemistry, University of Kuopio, Finland

Now also related to these chemicals the human brain produces, are many other indole alkaloids that you may have heard of, these include but are certainly not limited to, '___', Psilocin, Psilocybin, Mescaline, 5MEO-'___', Atropine, Muscarine, Ibogaine, etc. All of these chemicals are found in natural sources, and all of these sources have at least some culture who has cultivated them and used them for religous purposes, to my knowlege, there are no exceptions. Every single culture in the world has some reference or still active use of these chemicals, and in every instance the cultures that used these chemicals attribute them to some divinity.
Some examples, Hindu, the word soma, milk of the gods. The native americans, particularly in the SW, peyote, san pedro, Illonois Bundleflower, and many other Indole alkaloid bearing plants. In South America, psilocybe mushrooms are common in both art and cultures, also particularly interesting is their apparent early yet advanced knowlege of pharmacology, they were able not only to isolate the '___' found in many native species, but they somehow knew to combine it with MAOI's found in other plants which exponentially potentiates the '___'. Alot of chemistry there I won't go into for now. In middle eastern cultures we have species of accacia, and others like syrian rue. To make a long story short, every culture, every religon can trace it's earliest histories to use of divine plants.
Christianity is no exception. Nor is freemasonry, Islam, Bhuddism, Hindi, Hebrew...you name it.
This relates to Christ, but bear with me, it is nessecary to introduce a few concepts first.
The hebrew word messiah translates to annointed one, or more literally, one smeared with semen (yeah I know its gross but true). The amanita muscaria, when it is in the first stages of fruiting, is a slimy phallic looking thing that comes out of the ground. It is 'born' without seed, at least no seed that was known to exsist then (spores), hence the term virgin birth.
Also, the amanita muscaria, when soaked in water to derive the desired compounds, turns the water to a literal blood red (the amanita is red and white). The effects of Muscarine and or Muscimol last for up to three days and if the dosage is carefully administrated, induces a death like trance and profound visions in which it is commonly reported some communion with other beings takes place. After three days you 'rise from the dead' having been 'reborn' into a higher wisdom. Some biblical refernces to mushrooms are open to interpretation of course, but include the fruit of the tree of knowlege, the manna god provided to the Isrealites in the desert, the burning bush which gave Moses visions from god, etc. There are others but I don't want to type for hours and go digging just yet.
Now on to Jesus, the messiah...
There was what amounts to a puritan movement through the Roman empire during the time in which Jesus was supposed to be on earth, and the Hebrew faith was pretty much a victim of this movement. In order to hide this practice from the roman empire, it became neesecary to disguise or hide it. They did this through very cleverly concealed allegorical references to christ in their writings. Keep in mind that the cuneform symbol for a mushroom is a cross ;-)
As to what happened to their chemically induced theologies, Pope Innocent (13th?) was the last nail in the coffin of the mainstream knowlege of these practices, he took the kick out of the bread of life given at 'communion'. And the truth was slowly hidden away or lost all together. Only a few well educated folks or the top echelons of the orders are privy to the real foundations of christianity or judaism. To the common man, these profound truths became lore, consider this quote,

Acid, Mushrooms and the festival culture
A brief history of psychedelic drugs in Britain
Matthew J. Atha
April 9th 1996
Use of the toad and mushroom was hidden, and only hinted at in the surviving traditions of fairies, elves and otherworldly beings, sitting on their toadstools in childrens books. Fragments of the old lore remain, the red & white livery of Father Christmas heralding the yule festivities, representing the red and white-speckled cap of the Fly Agaric mushroom whereas the symbolic role of the reindeer would appear obvious. The common references to "Skin of Toad" in Witches Brews, containing bufotenine, a related compound to psilocybin, and even the etymological derivation of "Toadstool" may be indicative of a folk memory of ritual use of toadskins and magic mushrooms.

Of particular interest to me personally is the chemical '___', let me start with this...
Acacia and Entheogenic Tryptamines

N,N-dimethyltryptamine ('___') is a reasonably widely occurring alkaloid, present in other members of the mimosacea, ie mimosa hostilis, andenanthera peregrina, species from the leguminosae and other genera including the poacea, myristicaceae and rubiacea. It is a potent entheogen, and has been used, through plants, by people for hundreds of years in places like central and south America. Plants there were and are still used as sources of entheogenic snuffs and drinks for at least 1500 years. With the people there having an intimate relationship with these plants and their component compounds/ spirits.
'___' is also a natural component of human (mammalian) neurochemistry, a research team in the USA finding it in brain tissue and cerebrospinal fluid, and may even be a neurotransmitter, along with it�s analog 5-methoxy-'___', which is also present in human (mammalian) brain and cerebrospinal fluid. There is in fact an enzyme known as indole-N-methyl transferase (INMT), present in many different parts of the body ( and in other species of animals and even plants), that with other enzymes and processes converts tryptamine, N-methyltryptamine (NMT) and possibly tryptophan to '___' and 5-methoxy-'___' in the body. The activity of this enzyme is affected by some drugs, environmental factors such as stress may increase or effect the activity as well, '___' is closely related to the neurotransmitter serotonin, 5-hydroxy-tryptamine, and psilocin, 4-hydroxy '___', one of the active alkaloids of some �magic mushrooms�, as well as melatonin, 5-methoxy-N-acetyl -tryptamine, a hormone produced by the pineal gland at night and used as a drug to treat insomnia.

I regret that i was unable to find the author of that piece, but included the title.
From the time of your birth to roughly the age of 13 (cooinciding with the hebrew adulthood) your brain produces large quantities of '___', in other words children are basically tripping. Some psychologists have linked this to what we term "childish behavior", playing, laughing, even visions and other less scientific phenomina. After the age of 13, the Pineal gland begins to calcify and the production of '___' comes nearly to halt, although the gland still produces other indole compounds. Now the most signifigant and profound fact in regards to '___' at least in my opinion, is the death experience. At the moment of your death, your pineal gland will immediately spurt its last remaining amounts of '___' along with a natural MAOI, in other words, the death experience has much to do with the relase of this chemical into your brain. Of interest here also is the limited but more recent studies that have been conducted, nearly all the tested subjects who were admisitered '___' beyond 'threashold' doses, reported contact iwth other entities. Perhaps gods? Given that '___' is quite possibly a 'super-neuro tramsmitter' and has the ability to act a supercondutor in the synapse, it is logical, at least to me to think that at the moment of our death, we become aware of a much broader range of the electormagnetic spectrum. There are some theories being put forth that this chemical process is responsible for the 'crossing over', or in more scientific terms, this transfer of the energy of our consciousness into the energy of the universe. If this process is interrupted, or inhibited chemically or otherwise, there is no 'crossing over' and you are bound then to the earth instead of the 'divine here after' (for lack of a btter word). Keep in mind the orignal hebrew word for hell translated to earth ;-)

I'm just really scratching the surface here but it's five a.m. but I wanted to add that this is a subject I am extremely interested in and have been studying for some time, so if you or anyone else has questions or additional research, feel free to drop me a u2u or email click here. I have more information but I can't keep typing and sleep at the same time.

[edit on 27-10-2004 by twitchy]

A very interesting theory to say the least. I don't buy it, but it is nevertheless interesting and I look forward to reading more of your ideas. You seem to have done your homework, at least.

Keep posting, I'll keep reading.

Jesus is respected in Islam as the greatest Physician whom ever lived and a prophet. He was reputed in Islam to bring back dead birds to life with only the sound of his voice.

What Jesus says about being the son of God is too often misinterprated, what he was trying to say was that everyone is the son or daughter of God just as he is.

Thanks for your time peeps

I am interested in any additional information or comments on the subject, If this thread is dead is it ok to move my information to a new thread? Mods?