Why the Netown Shooting is not a Conspiracy (as of yet)

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posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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A lot of you can post countless theories about why it was a conspiracy . So its time one is posted that fully says it wasn't. But before you go on the attack, actually read it all. You may learn something about the motive of this thread. And I wouldn't want someone looking foolish yelling at me for something I might have said differently in the post.


The connection between Peter Lanza and Robert Holmes :
This argument is most important due to motive and is purely false. A rumor spread across the internet by other conspiracy theorists to other conspiracy theorists. Fact is Robert Holmes has never been scheduled to to testify for any Libor scandal. Nor is there any connection between FICO and Libor. Lanza works as VP of taxes for GE's financial services. GE has never been connected with this investigation. Lanza has never appeared on any witness list regarding Libor and FICO. There goes that whole motive thing. As mentioned in this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...


The Batman map:
This is a map in The Dark Knight Rises. It shows Sandy Hook on a map that was seen for ,what, three seconds? This seems to be one of the more prevalent arguments. So what? It is a prop in a movie two years before the shooting even happened. Unless you have worked on a movie set you have no idea what you are talking about. I have. Everything is meticulous. So you would then have to imply Chirstopher Nolan in this conspiracy. Has there been such a connection made? None.

The laughing dad:
I admit this one got me for a second until my logic stepped in. The father is seen laughing before he reads a speech prepared about his daughter. Again, so what? Everyone reacts differently. Ive been around death and I have seen laughter, tears, sobs, screams. Everyone is different. How do you know someone didn't just tell him a joke to ease his nerves before speaking in front of millions of people for the first time? Furthermore, I would think that these evil powers that be would have gotten a better actor to play the part. Or do tptb just like leaving clues for all you ct'ers out there.

The misreporting by the media:
We live in a world where the media reported the wrong state in the presidential race and you expect them to get anything right? They all have their own 'sources'. The police didn't know everything so how could the media? If this were a conspiracy, wouldn't the media have a nice tidy script to read from? Or is this more fun from them giving the elite ct'ers out there clues to catch them? So Nancy Lanza was reported as a teacher, then a substitute, then never working there. Ok, they got something wrong. Again, not the first time, nor the last time.

The second shooter:
This one is easy. The same media you vilify reported a possible second shooter. So are they telling the truth? Ok, I'll accept that there might have been. Last time I heard the police were still investigating that lead. If there was a second shooter, then further discussion is needed. But you cant just pick and chose which parts of the medias story to believe. Either they are lying, or not. Are they covering it up? Then why report it in the first place and give you all something to talk about? More clues from that super secret powers that be having fun huh? And of course, then the local police of Newtown are in the cover up as well. Those awful peace keepers and residents of the town, they knew victims families but are now sucked up by tptb and are in on it as well?

Obama's fake tears:
This one had me laughing. So because Alex Jones puts out a viral video means yep, definitely faking tears. How do you not know he just successfully held them back? How do you know he wasn't crying with his wife the entire time watching things unfold? You don't. You assume because there wasn't a tear on his cheek. Ive begun to tear up before and successfully held them back. You'd never know I was crying.


So what are we left with.

Well if its a cover up, those involved include:
Christopher Nolan and co ( 4-5 people due to art directors prop masters, etc)
The Newtown police( rough guestimate, 50 or so police officers for this tiny town, could be very wrong)
The parents of the victims (so 40-50 people)
Barack Obama and co.( 10-20 people)
The media. Keeping it compartmentalized roughly 5 people form each network (45 or so people)

Just the basics to cover it up. I kept the numbers low. Were at around 155/160 people to cover this up. And this doesn't even involve the theories that say everything was hoaxed including the victims. Then were looking at about 250 people at least.


Now I will not be like most of the CT threads and say "if you don't believe it get the heck out!!" I welcome new information on the subject. Perhaps there is a smoking gun out there. But as of today, it has not been found.

And a few for the records: I am not a pure skeptic. Check out my posting history, there are a lot of topics I fully believe are a conspiracy. I simply feel they have more facts behind them. So please save the 'leave ATS, this is a conspiracy site moron' lines. I also do not believe everything the MSM tells me. I research what they report. I investigate to the best of my abilities. Newsflash though, some of the things they report are true. Not every little thing they say is a lie and not every single event on the planet is a conspiracy. And Newtown is one of those events, that as it stands now, is not a conspiracy.

But I'm ready to listen otherwise.
edit on 19-12-2012 by bknapple32 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by bknapple32
 


Thank you.It seems as though people are just grasping for straws on here now.This has to be one of the more thought out posts including common sense that i've seen.Again thank you.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by indy0725
reply to post by bknapple32
 


Thank you.It seems as though people are just grasping for straws on here now.This has to be one of the more thought out posts including common sense that i've seen.Again thank you.


I appreciate it. I hope those who do consider this to be a conspiracy come here and debate these things though. I hope common sense can prevail



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:12 AM
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Though Im thinking people dont want to come and face facts. More fun to come up with conspiracies.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by bknapple32
 

I think you make very good points.
It is perhaps revealing of human nature how many people are authoring so many conspiracy threads in relation to this tragedy.
You bring humanity back into the forum.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by OrionsWitness
 


Thanks. I also made a thread about the heroic victims but hardly any of the hardcore CT'ers even took a second glance. That to me is the saddest part. The victims are lost in all of this.
edit on 19-12-2012 by bknapple32 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by bknapple32
 

Agree the victims are always forgotten by the majority.
Empathy needs to be cherished and nurtured.
It is easy to disconnect and see only the opportunity to espouse half baked theories.
The only strange thing i see is the name Sandy Hook.
After a hurricane called sandy has passed through.
But life is strange.
Warsaw in Poland sure did see war.
But coincidences happen.
Or not.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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First you have to go back to Aurora, the opening of DKR has the incredibly bizarre shooting and turn of events. In the movie, that debuted with a mass shooting, there is a scene in which the camera zooms into the map (for whatever reason?), just long enough for the character to point at SANDY HOOK, which should be South Hinkley, but for some reason has been changed to Sandy Hook. Then a few months later there is another mass shooting at Sandy Hook, which hasn't been too much after Hurricane Sandy struck the area (who came up with that name?). It's not simply that Sandy Hook was on a map, it's all the other parts tied into it. Not to mention the incredible amount of symbolism tied into the new Batman Trilogy.

And as for your numbers, why in the heck would the parents be involved in the cover-up? That makes no sense. And why would all the police have to be involved in the cover-up, if it was set-up by some covert operation, none of the cops would have to be involved, they didn't plan it or carry it out. The same goes for the media, at most just the heads of the media making sure it gets played up is the farthest you need to go.

As for Nolan, I haven't done research into him yet, so I can't say how he is connected, but his most recent movies like The Prestige and Inception may or may not shed some light. Here is a description of The Prestige: "Obsessed with creating the best stage illusion, they engage in competitive one-upmanship with tragic results." And we know Inception is about illusion as well.

You can't expect us to have everything figured out already, but there are definitely some things that make you wonder.
edit on 19-12-2012 by CudiTheKid because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by CudiTheKid
First you have to go back to Aurora, the opening of DKR has the incredibly bizarre shooting and turn of events. In the movie, that debuted with a mass shooting, there is a scene in which the camera zooms into the map (for whatever reason?), just long enough for the character to point at SANDY HOOK, which should be South Hinkley, but for some reason has been changed to Sandy Hook. Then a few months later there is another mass shooting at Sandy Hook, which hasn't been too much after Hurricane Sandy struck the area (who came up with that name?). It's not simply that Sandy Hook was on a map, it's all the other parts tied into it. Not to mention the incredible amount of symbolism tied into the new Batman Trilogy.

And as for your numbers, why in the heck would the parents be involved in the cover-up? That makes no sense. And why would all the police have to be involved in the cover-up, if it was set-up by some covert operation, none of the cops would have to be involved, they didn't plan it or carry it out. The same goes for the media, at most just the heads of the media making sure it gets played up is the farthest you need to go.

As for Nolan, I haven't done research into him yet, so I can't say how he is connected, but his most recent movies like The Prestige and Inception may or may not shed some light. Here is a description of The Prestige: "Obsessed with creating the best stage illusion, they engage in competitive one-upmanship with tragic results." And we know Inception is about illusion as well.

You can't expect us to have everything figured out already, but there are definitely some things that make you wonder.
edit on 19-12-2012 by CudiTheKid because: (no reason given)


Why do I have the parents included? Because the ct'ers have. They have the dad fake crying and laughing as part of the conspiracy. So then the parents would be in on it. Quite simple.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by bknapple32
 


That video got me for a while also and still now I'm not sure what to think about it. But that is irrelevant. When it comes down to it, kids and teachers have died and it doesn't matter whether the interviews are staged or not. Trying to put a conspiracy together isn't going to bring back those peoples family members.. Even trying to think about going through the same ordeal is difficult so I think people should just accept it has happened and be sorry for the people who lost their loved ones.

We can try to put 2 and 2 together but what are we actually going to achieve? We are only speculating and will never get the truth anyway. I don't know about that father or whether he is using the tragedy to his advantage or not, but when it comes down to it, he will not see his daughter again and if this is the only way he can deal with that, then good on him. I would hate to be in his position and the position of the other families including the killers family..
edit on 19-12-2012 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by bknapple32

Why do I have the parents included? Because the ct'ers have. They have the dad fake crying and laughing as part of the conspiracy. So then the parents would be in on it. Quite simple.


Take them out. The shooting was real, the victims were real, the parents are real. As far as my view of it goes at least, there is no reason that any of them would be involved in the cover up. Just because someone posits that conspiracy, doesn't mean it has to apply to every theory.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by CudiTheKid
 



Take them out.


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I respectfully disagree with that.

The "parent angle" has been discussed at length especially here on ATS and it's also being used as proof of a conspiracy to some degree or another. In order to debunk, or at least make an attempt at debunking the conspiracy theories, It must be highlighted by "the skeptical side of the fence," just as It is on the other side.

To willingly ignore it as you're asking there, thus ignoring a crucial part of the case in the eyes of some, is not the goal of ATS. We're here to deny ignorance, not embrace it.

So again, I do have to say I disagree with you here. And I'm doing so as someone who also describes themselves as a conspiracy theories, although I can't personally say I subscribe to any surrounding this case in particular

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
edit on 19-12-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


Did you not read the rest of my post? Just because one theory says the parents were in on it, it doesn't mean that every theory has the parents in on it. It's not one size fits all. In my theory, there is no need for the parents or police to be in on it, so for me, I take them out of the list of people who had to be involved.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:16 AM
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Originally posted by CudiTheKid
reply to post by Rising Against
 


Did you not read the rest of my post? Just because one theory says the parents were in on it, it doesn't mean that every theory has the parents in on it. It's not one size fits all. In my theory, there is no need for the parents or police to be in on it, so for me, I take them out of the list of people who had to be involved.


People are playing off the emotions of one of the parents and to me that does not prove a god damn thing.. It may look strange surrounding the circumstances but everyone deals with things different and I'm sure most people who are making these claims will never go through what those parents did. Its amazing how we cannot accept the fact that one kid literally lost his marbles and took the lives of innocent people without some boogeyman contributing to it behind the scenes. If their is a conspiracy, none of the parents knew about it.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by CudiTheKid
 



Did you not read the rest of my post? Just because one theory says the parents were in on it, it doesn't mean that every theory has the parents in on it. It's not one size fits all. In my theory, there is no need for the parents or police to be in on it, so for me, I take them out of the list of people who had to be involved.


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

So because you don't believe in the conspiracy theory, it doesn't belong here or deserve discussion? Sorry, but no, It doesn't quite work like that and you're in no position whatsoever to make such a statement. Whether you like it or not, this part of the case has gained traction and is now becoming one of the main talking points. That's the precise reason why It's made the list in the opening post. Whether It has truth to it nor not is another point entirely.

Personally I think It's nonsense and so do a lot of others. But at the same time there's also many out there who do believe it has a lot of weight and for that reason, the reason It's being discussed so much now, is the very reason why It needs to be looked at from a skeptical point of view in a thread such as this one. That, or we just let the wild conspiracies continue to fly around without being challenged.

I'm forced to say to you now the same I said in my last post - ignoring a crucial part of the case in the eyes of some is not the goal of ATS. We're here to deny ignorance, not embrace it. And in order to deny it, we have to look at all angles brought up by those who claim a conspiracy. Period.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


"Well if its a cover up, those involved include....Were at around 155/160 people to cover this up."

This is making it seem like there HAS to be that many involved for it to be a conspiracy, but obviously that is not the case, as my previous posts have made clear. You can discuss those numbers if you want to debunk the parents fake crying or whatever as being part of the conspiracy, that's fine, but debunking that part of the conspiracy doesn't mean there is no conspiracy. In my view of the conspiracy, and many others, that 160 number can be dropped way way down. I understand your point that you want to discuss every theory out there, but I hope you are understanding my point that just because some people posit one version of the conspiracy, doesn't mean everyone believes that version.
edit on 19-12-2012 by CudiTheKid because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by CudiTheKid
reply to post by Rising Against
 


"Well if its a cover up, those involved include....Were at around 155/160 people to cover this up."

This is making it seem like there HAS to be that many involved for it to be a conspiracy, but obviously that is not the case, as my previous posts have made clear. You can discuss those numbers if you want to debunk the parents fake crying or whatever as being part of the conspiracy, that's fine, but debunking that part of the conspiracy doesn't mean there is no conspiracy. In my view of the conspiracy, and many others, that 160 number can be dropped way way down. I understand your point that you want to discuss every theory out there, but I hope you are understanding my point that just because some people posit one version of the conspiracy, doesn't mean everyone believes that version.
edit on 19-12-2012 by CudiTheKid because: (no reason given)


So then how does it go in your head?



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by bknapple32

So then how does it go in your head?


Ugh, read my earlier post. It was done as some covert operation, kids were really killed, parents really are sad. Just like 9/11, covert operation, people were really killed, victims' families were really sad. No actors, no holograms, no fake parents, no fake town etc.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:42 AM
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Originally posted by CudiTheKid

Originally posted by bknapple32

So then how does it go in your head?


Ugh, read my earlier post. It was done as some covert operation, kids were really killed, parents really are sad. Just like 9/11, covert operation, people were really killed, victims' families were really sad. No actors, no holograms, no fake parents, no fake town etc.


Again I ask. how does it all go. That doesn't say anything at all.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:55 AM
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Nice post but I disagree to a degree,

The same logic can and has been used to discount many other conspiracies. That does not make them any less a conspiracy.

It is a horrific thing, no argument there but so was killing a theater full of batman fans, passenger planes running into buildings, a loved president being murdered on national television. Points could be made for and against all those incedents being conspiracies ... that is what makes them conspiracies.

Personally, I don't know what to believe, the thought of Sandy Hook being more devious than it actually is, is a hard pill to swallow but things, some of what you list and some you do not, in my mind just don't seem right but again, such is the case of all conspiracies.





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