Problems along the Mississippi river, a firsthand photo account.

reply to post by mikellmikell


I sort of had a feeling that since we were so dry this summer we would have some flooding this winter. It has not started yet so I am begining to think I was wrong.

Raist

reply to post by fnpmitchreturns


I think the Missouri river is really hurting also. I was up there collecting some fossils early this summer and it was way down then. At this point you might not have to try very hard to get across it.

Raist

reply to post by votan


Yeah the gun posts are getting bad. Maybe the end really is coming. After all people are crazy the enviroment is screwed up , no one has much money. Things are not looking very bright right now.

I have to agree I wonder the same thing about the sea levels. I do not have an answer though for that. Maybe someone will answer it for us.

Raist

reply to post by SoulSearching8


I wanted to get out and see it myself. I wanted to know what rocks were in danger. I was happy to see that so far they are not touching the stuff were I was standing at any point. I also wanted to let AS know firsthand what I was seeing after reading the other thread linked in the OP.



reply to post by gemdog


I have been trying to figure out how this is going to affect the river in the long run myself. I wonder if this will keep it from ever getting back to normal levels or if this will increase flood risks further down stream in the future.


I asked a few about this and they said that they are only removing the very tops of some of the stuff sticking up right now. I guess that is part of the reason blasting has been put on hold. Well that and the impact on the fish. I know they have a lot of equipment at Thebes right now. There were at least four active diggings taking place at one time yesterday.

Raist

reply to post by kaidec


Your questions mirror some of my own. I do not know the answers, I hope someone can help us with them.

My understanding at this point though is they are only removing the very top most of some rock that is sticking up higher. Blasting is on hold for now so large amounts of rock are not being taken in the terms of thickness I guess.

I also understand that they are limiting the amount of water coming from the Ohio into the Mississippi. I might have misunderstood or misheard, but that might be why your river levels have risen a bit.

Raist

reply to post by 1PLA1


I am not even sure most of us living on the river knew it was this bad until the started to remove rock and talked about closing the river.

It was mentioned from time to time but not as much as it has in the last few days when it seems almost too late.

reply to post by DarKPenguiN


I am sorry to hear that your river has gotten so low.

It would be a very bad thing if the Mississippi river shuts down. A lot and I mean a lot of goods go up and down the river every day. As it is the barges have been taking lighter loads to compensate, which only causes costs to rise in the end.

This should really be big news. With as much money is involved in going up and down the river if it were to shut down even for a week it would wreck havoc on an already hurting economy. I fear that it the river shuts down we would go into a full blown depression in no time.

Raist

reply to post by wasobservingquietly


To my knowledge there is no granite in this area. They will most certainly be removing a lot of limestone though. The blasting has been put on hold, at least for the time being.

The New Madrid fault is further down south of here. That is not to say that a big enough quack would not be felt here just that I do not think they will be affecting the fault by blasting or digging in this area.

As for fracking they are not doing any of that around here. We do have a lot of quarries around though, but they are not using water for that. If they are doing it further upstream I am not sure. They could be removing water further up I guess. I know they are limiting the water flow into the river in many places. Add to that all the small creeks that are no longer filled with water being added to the river and we are left with what we have.

As for new fault lines I have not noticed anything new. Unless it is directly under the river I have not seen anything. There are a few places with some really amazing faulting going on around the river though. It is really cool to see some of the fractures and faulting of the rocks and wonder what it would have been like to see them move in all the directions they have.

Raist

reply to post by redrose123


Yeah the country is really going to be in a world of hurt if the river shuts down. I cannot figure out why the news has not been all over this more than they have. With the economy the way it is the river shutting down could figure in as the last tipping point that pushes it over the edge.

Raist

Hmmm , well the way those rocks look like natural sluice box riffles id be sure to check out the cracks with my gold pan next trip....
Or maybe a metal detector would reveal a nuggest? or an artifact....
Just saying
The concern you have for this situation is commendable...i see that my vew of it (i was aware) was no where near cognizant of the degree of drought causing this....
Or the seriousness of the consequences of low water....
Is there any other part of the waterway that would have to close?
how restrictive would it get do you think?
say at a 9 foot level....could that sustain commerce?
Further afield...what does this do to alter any pressure differences and water table alterations....in terms of the New Madrid?
All that water must have wieghed something ignifigant as well as the lubrication/liquefaction proprties of the water in the ground.....cracks apearing in some STATES TO THE NORTH OF YOU.......
maybe the river will end up draining the Great lakes soon?

reply to post by stirling


One of my fossiling friends mentioned the gold thing before. I have been too busy looking for fossils when I am there to think of gold though to be honest. I don't sell my fossils I just like to study them and enjoy looking at them.

I don't think any area is as low as this area at the moment. The first place to shut down would be the area from Cape Girardeau to Thebes. So I do not think any place has to worry about being shut down before this area.

Right now I think it is as restrictive as it can get. I think that is why the rock removal is underway. There have been cases of barges running aground and I think this area is in a very real risk of this.

In the first photo in the OP you can see a sand bar that reaches over half way across where water should be flowing. Early this summer there was not a steep bank on it, it just merged into the water. The water level has gotten so low that the sand bar looks as if it has grown. At that point the barges now have to wait and go through one at a time. Barges have also been taking lighter loads.

As for water level I have no idea how they measure it to be honest. I have been trying to figure that out myself. Last night I listed the water levels and how they had dropped in 12 hours. Right now they are listed on my phone as Cape Girardeau being 5.6 feet and Thebes being 3.96. So at least in the last 12 hours they have not changed. I feel certain though that that is not the actual depth where the barges pass through. I think it would be impossible for a barge even unloaded to go through less than 4 feet of water. I might be wrong on that but it seems like a stretch.

You bring up some good questions about the Fault line. That is something I had not thought of before. I do not see the river draining the great lakes though. I think they will completely shut off water flow to the river before that happens.

There are some really good questions coming up in this thread. I hope someone smarter than myself can come in and answer a few of them.

Raist

I just sent the local news a link to the photo album and this thread. I really think this should be the big new story they talk about.

This is really important. The Mississippi river is very much a huge part of the life blood of this country. Prices will jump to the moon if the river shuts down. Not to mention the toll this will have on an ecosystem that stretches from the top of the country to the bottom.

Raist

I'm fairly certain that the measurement is an average depth at the testing location. When a dam is built depth markers are built into the side of the dam walls. I'm thinking that these are step up locks where the water is held until a proper depth is reached on the upper Mississippi.

wiki

The area shut down is just below the last lock. imo We are running into low water levels that the army core of engineers did not forsee as a problem when the dams were built.

reply to post by deadeyedick


Ah thank you for that.

I have always wondered where they were getting the measurements. I have been all over and not seen any markers aside from those by the flood walls in Cape Girardeau.

Thanks again for the information and link.

Edit to add: Had problems with your link so I found it. Thanks for helping me get there though.
en.wikipedia.org...

Raist

Originally posted by deadeyedick

The area shut down is just below the last lock. imo We are running into low water levels that the army core of engineers did not forsee as a problem when the dams were built.

edit on 19-12-2012 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)

Yeah I guess they never expected this bad of a drought to take place.

Like always we see the now and not the future. We focus so much on control that we lose sight of the fact that nature will not be controled. It really brings meaning to the phrase never know what you have until it is gone.


I am very concerned about the future of the river and what is at stake with the economy and ecosystem because of it.


Raist

reply to post by Raist


Thanks for posting. S & F big time. Like everyone else, I knew it was getting bad down there, but I was shocked to see just how really bad it was.
What I'd like to know is, if I'm not mistaken is I thought the Mississippi was fed in a round about way by the great lakes. (been a looooooooong time since I've been in school) If so, then I think were looking at something even bigger. If the great lakes fed the Mississippi then where is that water going?

reply to post by Chance321


My understanding is that the Great Lakes, Ohio river, and the Missouri river all of which feed the Mississippi river have locks and are limiting the amount of water being fed into the Mississippi river so that they do not run the water too low in those areas.

All I know for sure is that this area seems to be the most affected right now. This is the area that is at risk of being shut down. I also know that we are seeing rocks not covered by water that no one I have spoken to has even seen uncovered. I have not heard of anyone saying they remember the river being lower than it is now.

The last historical low was in 1988.

usatoday30.usatoday.com...

This is really looking bad. I have posted this on reddit as well in hopes that maybe more news will pick up on it and people will understand how bad it is. I encourage everyone to share the link to the photos and the thread with more people. We need to get this news out.

Raist

Here is a link to water levels in the river and all around that feeds the river. By the looks of all the gauges the river is very low and all the areas that feed it are low and have had no rainfall. That will bring a very interesting spring if things persist. This is the time of year that usually rings many inches of rain. Right now any rains that we get will only sustain the current levels. Not only is the river level low but the water table is lower in the majority of the u.s.

water data

Just choose st louis district on the drop down menu then choose all 10 basins

reply to post by deadeyedick


Wow, thanks again for bringing in some good information and a link.

The people I spoke to yesterday said that things were not expected to change before either March or May of next year. I cannot recall but I am leaning toward May most likely. If that is the case the river is probably going to shut down by that time. At least this portion of the river will.

I guess they would find other ways to transport goods, but costs would certainly jump. I imagine fuel costs would hit over $5 a gallon if not more if the river shuts down.

Raist

reply to post by Raist


WOW!
Massive difference!

Thanks for the clarification

Thank you for your post and great pics. I live in the St. Louis area, but unfortunately seldom get down to the river. Just be careful walking around those sandbars, for quicksand. Now get us some pics when they start blasting!