Originally posted by kozmo
Keep in mind, there is no law that may be written that requires you to show identification. You are protected equally under the 4th Amendment right
to privacy and securing in your papers, person and effects and the 5th Amendment right to not self incriminate and remain silent.
At one time, that might have been somewhat true, however, things are not as they once were.
Hiibel vs Sixth put an end to that. If a state has a "well constructed" stop and identify statute, you can indeed be charged with obstruction for
failure to identify or present identification if you have it. And Arkansas is one of those states.
The Fourth Amendment issue was long ago dealt with in Terry v Ohio. It was ruled that having to identify was not infringing on your Fourth amendment
rights, and Hiibel dealt with the Fifth argument.
So, yep, if you've got it, you have to present it. If asked, you must give your name, but no more. You also have to allow a pat down. That might be
arguable later, there are specific requirements for a valid Terry stop, but the issue is that the officer can just lie his or their asses off and meet
them. It's not worth the effort. If they want to Terry stop you and get a Hiibel ID, just go with it.
And then remove the mayor from office, and the police chief. And the sheriff. At the next election.
Even with me not trusting most cops, this one is one of those things it's not worth getting into it over. A cop can ALWAYS charge you with some
mopery, that's why mopery laws are on the books. Loitering is one of them. It's deliberately constructed to allow an officer a reasonable rationale to
stop and inspect anyone he/she just doesn't like the smell of. Like 'disturbing the peace'.
Mopery will ALWAYS give them rationale to fake a valid Terry stop. Always. It will never, ever fail in court, unless the officer's a total assclown
and you've got Melvin Belli's ghost for a lawyer.
Now, if you really wanted to game this, you could get dozens of ACLU lawyers with wires and cameras to walk the streets looking for the occasional cop
who would be stupid enough to actually lie his/her/their ass off, get recorded doing it, and then testify to the lie in court, or do such poorly done
Terry stops that you could bring charges, maybe set the cop's immunity aside and rape him in civil court as an example. But it won't happen.
edit to add:
You might have more luck getting some guys to dress in brown shirts and march along near, but not close to the AR15 guys and sing "Deutschland Uber
Alles", sort of like a mariachi band.
edit on 18-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)