Listen to this argument for more gun control and please tell me how you can be against it..

It would cost less to install bulletproof doors in all schools than Obama spends on ONE Stealth bomber and its maintenance and upkeep.

Police DO get to these murder sites,they just need a few more minutes to save people,if all those teachers could have just closed and locked their doors ALL the kids would have been safe .

It will cost less to do this than to change gun laws this is a conspiracy 100%.

Americas most critical natural resource is its children and Obama spent more money protecting oilfields and industry during the war on terror,this is sickening and a total BS story.

America has the best police forces in the world,they just need a bit more time to get there,we dont need armed guards in schools,we need common sense solutions,and the government is not looking for that they are trying to disarm Americans.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by Alfie1

 

I have 4 children and 2 grandchildren whose rights I fully intend to preserve.
Gun rights have nothing to do with the deaths of these children and I find using their deaths in such a blatantly politically way nothing short of disgusting.
Without gun rights we would have never been preserved as a free Republic.
How many dead people did it take to create that?

Of course so-called "gun rights " had everything to do with it. With so many on here it is like talking to an alcoholic who just keeps insisting he is a social drinker.

What on earth was a middle-aged mother doing with an armoury in her home which enabled her nutty son to go off on this spree with multiple weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammunition ? Is that normal ?

3 guns and a couple of hundred rounds is not an "armory." Considering women are vulnerable to rape and assault, I think the reason why a woman would want to own a few guns is pretty apparent. Her fault lies, not with owning three rather common guns, but not securing them when she realized her son was nuts. Therin lies her negligence.

Sounds like your blaming the mother for the school shooting. Anyway, what about all the other negligent mothers out there with guns and loony kids? How do you enforce common sense? And how do you know for sure they weren't secured in the first place and he manged to find the key?

All these people from Britain saying gun control laws like theirs would help to these US mass killings. What happened 2 years ago with Derrick Bird?

reply to post by redtic


Heres my simple answer,everytime there is a another shooting,America needs to stop looking at the symptom (the gun used) and get to the REAL issue (which is our society). You do know there about 7 guns for every adult in Canada right? Yet they have a much lower incident rate of shootings than us. So why is that? We live in a society of fear and want, our kids grown up seeing people acting out badly on T.V. and look they are stars! They are shot to stardom not because of any good deed they did,but rather for how low life they can be.In the meantime there are strangers on every street corner who are going to attack and rape and/or kill you,at least if you believe the media that is.The media thrives on showing everything bad in the world going on,and from a skewed point of view no less.I grew up during the Vietnam era, my parents ALWAYS watched the evening news. But the video coming out of there was so horrific and getting worse that finally my parents turned it off one night and didn't turn it back on till we pulled out of there.These so called stars that the kids watch now days flaunt they're money around like theres no tomorrow.And since they really have little talent to begin with,you would think they would be putting it away for the day when no one knows them anymore.Kids see this and think 'I want those things too!'They are learning there is a pay off to acting badly.Now combine that with weak parenting,either because they are too busy trying to stay ahead or because of fear of the government interfering ,and you have a recipe for disaster.Kids that grow up thinking I better attack before someone attacks me and I want all those things rich people have and I'm willing to act bad to get them, and I don't have a strong moral compass to step in and guide me.But of course lets just take the guns away,that will fix everything.NOT.Oh and just so you know...those parents who are afraid to discipline they're kids? They just take them to doctors that give the kids drugs,yeah the ones that can cause kids to be suicidal. My son when younger gave up dating any of them,they were all on it.

reply to post by Xen0m0rpH


I agree ! The military oath states to defend the Constitution and Bill of Rights against all enemies both foreign and domestic . Looks like we will be defending it against both , foreign and our current administration .

How can I be against it,well I think that this says it best,remember those that do not remember the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

Paul Harvey on Gun Control:
> >
> > Are you considering backing gun control laws? Do you think that because
> you may not own a gun, the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment don't
> matter?
> >
> > CONSIDER THIS...
> >
> > In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953,
> approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were
> rounded up and exterminated.
> >
> > In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million
> > Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> exterminated.
> >
> > Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945,13 million
> Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who
> were unable to
> defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> >
> > China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
> political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> exterminated.
> >
> > Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981,
> > 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> exterminated.
> >
> > Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
> > Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> exterminated.
> >
> > Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million
> "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> exterminated.
> >
> > That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun control at
> approximately 56 million in the last century.
> >
> > Since we should learn from the mistakes of history, the next
> time someone
> talks in favor of gun control, find out which group of citizens
> they wish to
> have exterminated.
> >
> > It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced to
> surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, a program costing the
> government more than $500 million dollars. The results
> > Australia-wide; Homicides are up 3.2%, assaults are up 8%, and armed
> robberies are up 44%.
> >
> > In that country's state of Victoria, homicides with firearms are up
> > 300%. Over the previous 25 years, figures show a steady
> decrease in armed
> robberies and Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to
> explain how no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such
> monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in
> "ridding society
> of guns."
> >
> > It's time to state it plainly; guns in the hands of honest citizens save
> lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws only affect the law-abiding
> citizens. Take action before it's too late, write or call your delegation.
> >
Paul Harvey, good day.

Paul Harvey on Gun Control:

paul harvey

reply to post by lonegurkha


Go Paul Harvey !

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
One reason that the Japanese dropped the idea of attacking the mainland USA in WW2 was because Admiral Yamamoto said that there was an armed American "behind every blade of grass." He wasnt talking about the Army or Marine Corps but about the citizens at large. That deterrent alone ("to ensure the security of a free state") should be good enough for you.

Apparently Obama and his minions didn't get the same memo Yamamoto got.

Imagine how many more guns there are NOW....

Just because some #tard shot up a school DOES NOT mean we all have to surrender our arms and lay down for the man. I don't hunt. I buy my meat from the grocery store. I don't shoot kids. I don't rob banks. I don't believe this is a big conspiracy to get all the guns. I think it's a case of people being confused and scared and looking for something to hang their anger and sadness on.

I know, it breaks my heart too...but he didn't use MY gun to kill them. I don't know what to tell you. Lock your doors, move away, panic, whatever makes you feel safe...but don't infringe my rights so you can feel some false sense of security. I don't have to prove why I deserve this right. I don't have to list reasons and justify owning a gun to anyone. I've committed no crime.

A gunman whose name we do not need to memorialize took advantage of our gun control laws to slaughter some 20 children and seven adults in a Newton, Connecticut elementary school.

In addition to the gunman, blood is on the hands of members of Congress and the Connecticut legislators who voted to ban guns from all schools in Connecticut (and most other states). They are the ones who made it illegal to defend oneself with a gun in a school when that is the only effective way of resisting a gunman.

What a lethal, false security are the Gun Free Zone laws. All of our mass murders in the last 20 years have occurred in Gun Free Zones. The two people murdered a couple of days earlier in the shopping center in Oregon were also in a Gun Free Zone.

Hopefully the Connecticut tragedy will be the tipping point after which a rising chorus of Americans will demand elimination of the Gun Free Zone laws that are in fact Criminal Safe Zones.

One measure of insanity is repeating the same failure time after time hoping that the next time the failure will turn out to be a success. Gun Free Zones are a lethal insanity.

We must tell our elected officials that they are acting as the criminals’ friends as long as they continue to support legislation that only protects criminals, not decent people.

Oh, and we must also insist that these criminal friendly elected officials not even try to blame gun owners and our “gun culture” for what a criminal did. Had a few of us been available with guns at the Newton school, most of the victims might still be alive.

Instead of trying to change the laws of the land try moving to a land with laws you can agree with.

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
Instead of trying to change the laws of the land try moving to a land with laws you can agree with.

Do you have any suggestions because I am perplexed. It's a good idea though. If it's a big country we could try to get them to let us ALL move there and everyone else would have no one to rule.

Oh, if only it were remotely feasible. It's a sweet idea though.

We just find a country we like and disappear from the rest of the world.
They wouldn't know what to think.

Do you think TPTB would even have the sense to miss us?

That would be hilarious. I will dream of tumbleweeds and confused elites tonight.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
How can I be against it?
Simple - it's infringing on my God given rights.
Those who want a New Constitution are welcome to secede and try a new Confederacy.

You think God gives you the right to a gun via the Constitution?
You realize the Constitution was not handed to Moses on the Mount don't you?
And that guns were apportioned for the Militia and since we didn't have a standing Army at the time.
People who feel guns are provided for in the Constitution are being deliberately and calculatedly OBTUSE.
People who think God wanted you to have a gun are just plain wrong and might I add, idiotic?

I'm telling you guys this is a setup...

Listen, you want a reason?

Because we have people in this country corrupt to the BONE. Look at this nation, they are the parasite rotting us from the inside out, the financial market is bound to die, we're all in other countries killing THEIR kids and people over things we ain't got no business with, The education is being ignored, and we still have these greedy bastards taking loop holes to get even richer!

You are a nuisance to them. They don't want you to have freedom, can't you see? The moment you give up those guns.. you'll be giving away the freedom to resist. You know why? Because they'll have guns and you won't. They'll kill you and take everything you own without a moments hesitation then use you as an example to what happens to those who resist.

I'll tell you how they feel too. Have you ever tried to trick or prank someone and began to see the beginning of your plan unfold JUST AS you wanted it? Your reaction was probably something like... "They are totally about to fall for this" while snickering under your breath trying to keep a straight face so you don't blow the plan.

That is what they are doing. And you walking RIGHT into it.

If you REALLY want to rid the country of guns, you must rid the world of guns. Not kidding. I won't settle for anything less. Let's take it back the age of the blades.

reply to post by redtic


I did listen the audio and found nothing to change my opinion of why Americans have the right to possess firearms.
When I say "god given rights" I am referring to the original document that created the American form of government - the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution for the United States of America

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

. www.archives.gov...

Rights are not negotiable, they inherent, inviolable and original to man. Rights are what makes Americans sovereigns rather than subjects. We the People created the government to protect the rights enumerated in our Constitution. Our current government believes the people to be their subjects and our rights open to negation or alteration. There is no gray area for rights - either they exist or they do not.

It is truly tragic what happened in that school but it does not alter our rights as Americans. We are not the same as any other country on the planet so joining the "civilized world" is not an open question either. It is OUR Constitution and so long as it remains it can be amended but never removed, ignored nor subject to treaty or international agreement.

We obviously disagree on the solution to preventing future occurrences of this kind - I believe that the solution is for school officials to be armed and capable of meeting aggression. Another part of the problem here is that Adam Lanza had deep psychological problems. he may also have been on medications. Why are these not being discussed as well? I just ran across this video in another thread:


America creates people with such problems with our society that seems to value winning at all costs, the ends justify the means mentality, violence everywhere in our culture in games, movies , tv.
If you really look at where the worst gun crimes are it is always in places with the harshest restrictions or "gun free" zones such as schools or movie theaters where criminals know people will not be able to resist.

The genie is out of the bottle so far as guns are concerned. they will be around regardless of any laws. What really needs to change most is our culture, We lack community, honesty, principles, scruples. We push competition, punish failure and ridicule anything outside of the mainstream. We've lost our value of family. We have become a herd of sheep rather self-motivated individuals working collectively to build community.

Adam Lanza seems to have had no friends at all. The pictures of him they show are all years old. He was isolated, emotionally withdrawn, probably felt abandoned by his father and brother. Why do families fall apart? That's an important factor in why this kid lost it that needs to be addressed. We can do better. Changing gun laws is looking for an easy fix to an enormous problem that most of us don't really want to face. Our culture has gone wrong, deeply wrong and nobody wants to admit it.

reply to post by redtic


Statistics can be used however the person using them wants.

I can say Switzerland has the most guns per capita of any country in the world, yet their gun crime rate is fairly low considering (similar rate to France who is basically disarmed).

The thing is we have a right to bear arms, we should have that right for many reasons. It's illegal to go out and shoot someone, law abiding citizens don't. The ones that do are breaking a law, so if you make guns illegal, you think these law breakers wont get them through illegal means?

We have had thousands die in wars to defend that right, to make this country different. If there is a problem with people going nuts and shooting people I can assure you, it's not the guns fault. I read the other day about a guy who went to a house and used a bug sprayer to spray three people with gasoline and then light them on fire.

Crazy people will kill no matter what, we need to worry about treating the actual problem which are how many people are cracking and going spree killing.

Originally posted by FlySolo

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by Alfie1

 

I have 4 children and 2 grandchildren whose rights I fully intend to preserve.
Gun rights have nothing to do with the deaths of these children and I find using their deaths in such a blatantly politically way nothing short of disgusting.
Without gun rights we would have never been preserved as a free Republic.
How many dead people did it take to create that?

Of course so-called "gun rights " had everything to do with it. With so many on here it is like talking to an alcoholic who just keeps insisting he is a social drinker.

What on earth was a middle-aged mother doing with an armoury in her home which enabled her nutty son to go off on this spree with multiple weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammunition ? Is that normal ?

3 guns and a couple of hundred rounds is not an "armory." Considering women are vulnerable to rape and assault, I think the reason why a woman would want to own a few guns is pretty apparent. Her fault lies, not with owning three rather common guns, but not securing them when she realized her son was nuts. Therin lies her negligence.

Sounds like your blaming the mother for the school shooting. Anyway, what about all the other negligent mothers out there with guns and loony kids? How do you enforce common sense? And how do you know for sure they weren't secured in the first place and he manged to find the key?

All good points, however, I was addressing the post that a woman should not own guns with a reply as to why a reasonable woman would own guns. Like I said, the only thing I think one could argue she did wrong was not owning guns in the first place, but being a bit negligent in her storage given that she knew her son was a problem.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


And that is a very, very valid point. The trouble is, adressing morality and social issues such as the breakup of hte family are taboo to the left. No one on that side wants to hear about morals, self responsability, accountability, self restraint, and keeping the family intact.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Well the thing is nobody wants us, nobody will take us in. But boy do they expect us to take them in though. That aside im happy where I am not going to be chased away

reply to post by Xen0m0rpH


Either way I very much doubt that you "own" an F16. If the government will let you park it there then go ahead.