A response to: " Every possible reason for gun ownership addressed and countered"

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posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Conclusion:

Worst responses to my points Ive seen yet and there were some absolute shockers on the other thread.

I really cant believe your serious


I wont be coming back here as your either trolling or secretly on my side and just proving how stupid the gun advocates actually are.

Flame away peeps but at least read my rebuttals
edit on 18/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by Bakatono
 


Actually Im an Australian citizen



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by Hr2burn
 


LMAO

My government cant detain me indefinately or tap my calls without a warrant and Im the downtrodden one


You guys are freakin hilarious



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Conclusion:

Worst responses to my points Ive seen yet and there were some absolute shockers on the other thread.

I really cant believe your serious


I wont be coming back here as your either trolling in secretly on my side and just proving how stupid the gun advocates actually are.

Flame away peeps but at least read my rebuttals


Your rebuttals show how inept you are. I don't even need address them as they are glaringly supportive of how utterly idiotic & wrong you are.

Please don't come back, my brain hurts from trying to weed through the nonsensical sewage you post. Thanks to you, I think we've all had our daily dose of idiocy and then some.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 09:07 PM
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Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone


" Every possible reason for gun ownership addressed and countered" was written by some one that lives in a city or town.

They have never lived or worked someplace where the nearest LEOs were a hour or more away. I have.

They have never lived or worked someplace where the are no land-line phones and cell phones do not work. I have

They have never lived in a area where you have illegal Marijuana grow operations run by illegal aliens every summer and had to work in the same areas, I have.

they have never lived in areas where bears are as bad as out of area thieves at breaking into homes and buildings. I have

They also never had a job working with large amounts of gold as part of your work in the above area. I have.

Even with the gun ban in Australia many people living and working in the outback still have guns.



edit on 18-12-2012 by ANNED because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by LightCraft
 


Star and Flag for you, sir. You used real statistics, facts, and sources. This thread litteraly counters nearly every anti-gun argument that has surfaced since the incident. The person who made the original anti-gun thread probably lives in England, and as such seems to be ignorant of the whole gun crime going up in some areas by 68% in some areas, or how over 25% of all English subjects have been a victim of violent crime since the gun ban.
Keep on preaching the cool truth brother.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 09:49 PM
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Wow, you just messed this person up with some truth.......s&f



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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I have always found it odd when speaking of the 2nd ammendment that it was for that time and that time only but in the same breath they will tell you that the 1st ammendment speaks of freedome of speach and freedome of the press and they naturaly carry that over to freedome of the tv news the freedome of the radio news and freedome of the internet yet none of those items were being used in 1776. So if one is to interpet the 2nd in a very narrow view then all other rights should be seen in the very same narrow view in my opinion.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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To the OP. Star and Flag for you, Sir. The only way to win such an argument is with facts and clear thinking, not emotions and opinions as Iknowstuff is wont to do. Keep it up, cooler heads will prevail in the end. (hopefully)

To Iknowstuff: I am starting to believe that you, Sir, are a troll. From you're skewed "facts" to your doublespeak and non-answers. Then you go so far as to call the OP of this thread a troll. Insults and emotional responses will not help your cause or change our minds, they will be taken as what they are, knee-jerk reactions from a "know-it-all". Whether or not you think guns are unnecessary, does not mean that you are corect. You seem to know little on the subject and get your information from biased resources. You also seem to dismiss every rebuttal, no matter how logical or factual. You have gone on to show that in your mind, what you believe is the only correct answer. Please be sensible and read something to try and learn, not out of the explicit reason to come up with a response. Weigh the information, don't just dismiss it. At a time, I thought as you did, then something amazing happened. I grew up. I realized that I can be wrong, and that's okay. That's my piece of advice for the day.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


Look at this guy's subtitle: "ATSs most important and intelligent member"

Does anyone expect this guy is they type of guy to ever admit when he's wrong?

He's a narcissist who will always think he's right.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by Ghost375
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


Look at this guy's subtitle: "ATSs most important and intelligent member"

Does anyone expect this guy is they type of guy to ever admit when he's wrong?

He's a narcissist who will always think he's right.


I admit I was wrong



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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Awesome thread! The biggest threats to the safety of American citizens are the Media and ill-informed, reactionary people.

The obvious logic behind maintaining the 2nd Amendment is lost on people who are too frightened to think for, and protect themselves.

Having to resort to arguments like "Ban the car" "Ban Knives" etc. etc. in order to get the point across only highlights the idiocy of those that propose the banning of guns and the nullification of the 2nd Amendment.

Instead of getting rid of guns, why aren't we talking about getting rid of CRIMINALS?! Making guns illegal to own will NEVER stop a criminal from obtaining one, it will only leave more law-abiding people open to being violated both by criminals and the government.

As for all of these supposedly "gun-friendly" politicians who are warming up to the idea of a ban, I say we remove them from office and remind them that ultimately, it is NOT up to them, but to us (THE PEOPLE).



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 12:37 AM
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I have as of yet not commented on this issue, i can see the utopian ideal that if
we were to do away with weapons all together the world might be safer,
having said that one must also consider that we hold our personal rights to
a much higher standard than most of the world, and the real question here is
do you have the personal right to feel safe?

I come down on the side of gun ownership, as many have pointed out in many
ways, those who already obey the law are not the problem and should not be
made to pay the price for those who choose not to, you could use that very
argument as a tool against religion, think about it.......

Most religious folks follow the law and are not a problem at all, however those
who choose not to are a HUGE problem for the entire world, they choose to
use something that would in and of itself not be harmful unless you decided
to use it for its true purpose, to control and subjugate, when religion is used
for its proper purpose then its clearly only a tool for destruction and oppression,
however we do not treat it the same way when religious crazies attack, you
don't see huge movements of people trying to ban religion all together........

Think about that, after 9/11 they should have been out there saying, look at what
religion has done, see the outcome of the so called harmless practice? over
10k dead just so you can have freedom to practice religion....... is it really worth it?
this is a dangerous and easily oppressive ideal that if actually thought about logically
does not end well.........



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:03 AM
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Saw this link in another forum, found it relevant.

The Carpenters



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 03:27 AM
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That about sums it up, people.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 03:54 AM
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reply to post by LightCraft
 


I guess you just couldn't hit the reply button?

... you know your audience and you will get the reaffirmation you are so desperately seeking.

Surprises me that after such a tragedy the focus is still on the weaponry and not the children.

No matter.... *sigh*




Report by the U.S. Senate Subcommittee on the Constitution (1982)—"In the Militia Act of 1792, the second Congress defined 'militia of the United States’ to include almost every free adult male in the United States. These persons were obligated by law to possess a [military-style] firearm and a minimum supply of ammunition and military equipment. . . . There can be little doubt from this that when the Congress and the people spoke of the a ‘militia,’ they had reference to the traditional concept of the entire populace capable of bearing arms, and not to any formal group such as what is today called the National Guard." (Source: U.S. Senate, "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms," Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary (1982))



Militia was defined as every free male because we didn't have a standing army.
Men, any able bodied men were gathered to fight and naturally they would have to be armed.


wiki.answers.com...


The Continental Congress established the Continental Army in 1775 to fight the revolution. The Legion of the Unites States was established in 1792- 1796 to fight the Native Americans, which means it was established and renewed once.

The Congress re-raised the army for the war of 1812 and Mexican-American War from 1846-1848.

Once again for the Civil War Congress called up the state militias to form an army.

It was not until the late 19th / early 20th century that the current standing army was formed.

Taken from section 8 (Powers of Congress) of the United States Constitution



To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;


To provide and maintain a Navy;


To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;


To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;


To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


Clearly a distinction is made and arming a Militia meant arming those charged with executing laws of the Union, suppressing insurrections and repelling invasions. I don't see today's Libertarians doing any of that. They mostly just sit on their porch.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by LightCraft
 





"Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense



SURVEY RESEARCH AND SELF-DEFENSE GUN USE: AN EXPLANATION OF EXTREME OVERESTIMATES


Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz conducted a survey of civilian defensive gun use in 1992.

In 1993, Kleck began publicizing the estimate that civilians use guns in self-defense against offenders up to 2.5 million times each year.

This figure has been widely used by the National Rifle Association and by gun advocates.

It is also often cited in the media and even in Congress.

The Kleck and Gertz (K-G) paper has now been published.

It is clear, however, that its conclusions cannot be accepted as valid.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

A GUNS ONLY PURPOSE IS TO KILL!!!! when a car, Dr, knife, fork, piece of wood etc etc kills it has been misused.



Isn't that the only purpose of the military as well? So why do you support your military then, seeing as how it only exists to kill people?
If your answer is that it protects your country, the same thing applies to guns since they protect their owners.

So now you're left with no argument.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 04:53 AM
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I continually see that claim made again and again, a guns only purpose is to
kill, and yes it is actually the only purpose, the problem with the argument is not
if its a valid claim, its that the claim matters not, killing is not always wrong, period.

Guns are used to hunt more than anything else i would wager, the question then
becomes so complicated we cannot simply ignore it, you see if you ban guns,
rely on the governments for protection, if say a major disaster were to occur,
one that was horribly bad for the whole country, so bad that in fact, and this
has happened before, that the government could not respond to it quickly enough,
then all those people who are disarmed would more than likely perish for
lack of food, i would not want my only option to be sitting and waiting to starve
while my government attempts to get food to me, if they even attempt it,
because lets face it, they may well be there now but the only guarantee of them
being there in the future is their word and circumstances permitting it.

there is absolutely no way to know if they would be able to help fast enough, but
you know what? i can hunt a deer in a few days that would feed me and at least
10 other adults for 3-4 days minimum....... but if all i have is a bow or even a crossbow
then there again it may take god knows how long, i feel we should have the right to
be self sufficient, whether that be in the area of protection or providing food for ourselves..........



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 06:23 AM
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There is a post on to-days natural news stating that law enforcement officers will not carry out any gun confiscation directives from the white house, be interesting to see what becomes of all that.





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