A response to: " Every possible reason for gun ownership addressed and countered"

Originally posted by torqpoc

Originally posted by LightCraft

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by Gauss

 

You assume too much Gauss, and seem to be very much the fanboy. Now kindly get back in your box if you haven't even the mental aptitude to refute my points, which are all factual and true. I dare you!

T

I have yet to see anything you have posted even closely resembling "factual and true". You're just spewing opinion. I have presented factual and true data and the problem is: it's very difficult to refute. Thus the emotional & opinionated responses.

And when you repeatedly have your argument blown to pieces, you resort to petty BS. Classy.

So since no one is actually able to backtrack to the original comment I made, let me google that for you, sorry quote that for you:

A nation of paranoid deluded people, governed by a murderous and lying government, itching to pull out their semi and fully automatic weapons to defend the mighty US of A.

Comical doesn't even come close to the reality of this situation.

No let's dissect this statement, again.

America as a nation is paranoid is the first statement.
Paranoia - noun
[mass noun]
a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically worked into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or of a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality.
unjustified suspicion and mistrust of other people

So do you really need me to come up with examples of how Americans are paranoid? Seriously? Why are you all carrying guns if not from direct paranoid delusion that someone is about to invade the US, since your 2nd amendment is directly about arming yourselves against invaders both foreign and domestic. It is heaped in paranoia. I'm sorry, but please refute the point, argue against it. Don't post, like Gauss, an emotionally driven rebuttal if you can't simply STICK TO THE POINT.

I would go a step further even and say that there are many people world round that are paranoid. Do you want to be defenseless against potential threats to your well being? Oh wait, nevermind that is self evident. It has nothing to do with being paranoid about being invaded or subjugated. It is about being prepared. Only a fool does not prepare for something that may happen. Example say there is a potential for a hurricane to hit the coast. You are a home owner along the coast. You can choose to prepare yourself by boarding the windows up, sand bagging, stocking food, water, and supplies etc. or you can choose to nothing and hope for the best. Who are you to tell anyone it's just paranoia to be prepared for the eventuality?

America as a nation is delusional/deluded is the next statement.
Definition of delusion
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder:
the delusion of being watched
[mass noun] the action of deluding or the state of being deluded:
what a capacity television has for delusion

Again do you truly need someone to hold your hand so you can walk through this? You are deluded as a people on many levels. The first being you think you are in control, you're not. The next one is that you are governed by a government for the people. You're not. The next one is that your guns will protect you, they won't. It is delusional to think so. You think everyone is out to get you, shall we continue?

I would say that delusional is again a world issue, not one that is exclusive to the domain of the US. What is more delusional, being more protected stripping the rights of the people or maintaining those rights?

governed by a murderous and lying government was the next statement.
Ok now seriously, if I have to prove this to you then you're a) on the wrong forums, b) both delusional and idiotic.

On this we agree, but we are not alone. Tell me do you truly believe actively giving up rights makes you better protected against someone who is murderous and lying? Does being without rights make a murderous entity all of a sudden just change it's ways on a whim?

itching to pull out their semi and fully automatic weapons to defend the mighty US of A was the final statement
You're posting in a post, about the desire to continue carrying guns and fighting for the 2nd amendment. Does it get any more crystal clear or am I wasting my time here?

It i not about defending country it is about defending personal freedoms. And as far as all your statements being factual and true I think you need to re-examine your statement of who is deluded.

reply to post by Darkphoenix77


Darkphoenix77 - since you agree on all points I made, please kindly explain how they are not factual and true.

You might not like them, they may apply to many different people, but it doesn't remove from the fact they are both factual and true. It's really quite simple. I didn't state that Americans are the only paranoid and deluded people with a lying and murderous government. Had I made that statement it would be wrong.

If you're going to argue a point make sure you actually argue it, rather than agreeing and then disagreeing in the same post.

I think i'm done with you also.

T

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by Darkphoenix77

 

Darkphoenix77 - since you agree on all points I made, please kindly explain how they are not factual and true.

You might not like them, they may apply to many different people, but it doesn't remove from the fact they are both factual and true. It's really quite simple. I didn't state that Americans are the only paranoid and deluded people with a lying and murderous government. Had I made that statement it would be wrong.

If you're going to argue a point make sure you actually argue it, rather than agreeing and then disagreeing in the same post.

I think i'm done with you also.

T

Try reading everything I wrote instead of one snippet then, I went and rebutted all your comments in turn. I do not agree with you, quite the opposite. I think you are severly misguided and are unable to see logic.

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by Darkphoenix77

 

Darkphoenix77 - since you agree on all points I made, please kindly explain how they are not factual and true.

You might not like them, they may apply to many different people, but it doesn't remove from the fact they are both factual and true. It's really quite simple. I didn't state that Americans are the only paranoid and deluded people with a lying and murderous government. Had I made that statement it would be wrong.

If you're going to argue a point make sure you actually argue it, rather than agreeing and then disagreeing in the same post.

I think i'm done with you also.

T

Try reading everything I wrote instead of one snippet then, I went and rebutted all your comments in turn. I do not agree with you, quite the opposite. I think you are severly misguided and are unable to see logic.

Mhhmm of course you did Dear. What you actually did, since I took the time to read every single word you posted, was put your slant on every point I had made. You didn't negate a single thing, you just twisted it around to suit your opinion. Those are vastly different things.

I see logic just fine, but it would seem you can't differ between an emotionally driven view point and facts.

Let's pull one of your points apart shall we? You state that Americans are not paranoid because they prepare for the eventualities. I am sorry to inform you that being prepared or not has little to do with the emotional driven response stemming from being paranoid. You really need to study your psychology. If people were not afraid of anything, ie.. not paranoid, what the hell would they be preparing for? It's rather simple logic. So who is truly misguided?

Would you care to continue to tango, I can do this all day, all weekend and all week long if you so wish.

I'll be waiting for the true counter argument, if there is one.

T

Let's pull one of your points apart shall we? You state that Americans are not paranoid because they prepare for the eventualities. I am sorry to inform you that being prepared or not has little to do with the emotional driven response stemming from being paranoid. You really need to study your psychology. If people were not afraid of anything, ie.. not paranoid, what the hell would they be preparing for? It's rather simple logic. So who is truly misguided?

You are of the belief that we as Americans are paranoid (as a whole). I disagree. I see no way this can be debated and to continue to go back and forth trying to argue this point is....well...pointless. I will say this though. Some fear is a good thing not a negative thing because it is only a fool that fears nothing. This has absolutely nothing to do with the changing/revoking of the rights as defined in the Constitution though, am I correct? By your same reasoning nobody should invest in any type of insurance policy then right? I mean what is the point? Why be a slave to your fears and invest in Life, Auto, Fire or any other type of insurance?

Would you care to continue to tango, I can do this all day, all weekend and all week long if you so wish.

I really don't see the point if you are not even conceding to the possibility that your mind may be changed.

I'll be waiting for the true counter argument, if there is one.

T

Look nothing will ever be 100% certain. No one will ever be able to be prepared for every eventuality. We have had to deal with crazy people all through history. The recent killings seem to me more spur of the moment however this video demonstrates that crazy’s will plan ahead as well. This video is a perfect demonstration of how you can’t blame the tools. Should we ban bulldozers? BTW the weapons he had were not assault rifles he actually had a bolt action in there. Reporters can sensationalize things even more with incorrect terminology.



My state is voting to put armed guards at schools many have had them for a very long time. There is no guarantee that this measure will prevent another tragedy like SH but it at least gives them a fighting chance. We protect the things we believe to be valuable that’s why banks will have security I believe the children are far more valuable than any amount of money so it is only common sense to protect them. I would like to see several police at our schools I had them at many schools I went to and it served multiple purposes one was improving relations between kids and police. I was friends with one even though I was a troublemaker he was kind and offered good advice. Face it there isn’t going to be a repeal of the 2nd amendment in any way. There will probably be nothing done to improve the mental healthcare system the only common sense thing to do is protect those we love.

Even if there was a ban on certain weapons it would do nothing to affect the ones already on the market many people like me have acquired all of their weapons through private sales where I didn’t need to register a single one. Laws do not faze criminals it is absurd to think otherwise. Placing security at all schools is a deterrent and a measure of protection. We will never be able to guarantee the safety of everyone the only place I can say is 100% secure would be Fort Knox but at least some measure like armed security is better than none.

Originally posted by liverlad

Originally posted by Gauss
.

Really? You are stooping that low, try telling that to victims of gun crime.



Really, you sir, should check this out

reply to post by dave_welch


David,

The Anti-gun crowd has no use for sane & logical arguments against their agenda. All they care about is what they want, everyone else be damned.

reply to post by LightCraft


LightCraft, I agree with you, however, reducing a discussion to a shouting match helps nobody. True, it seems most of them won't listen to reason. But, If anything that we post causes someone to change their mind, or at least do some research of their own, then our job has been done correctly. Sometimes you have to, to use an old cliche, "kill them with kindness." In the end, lets all hope that cooler heads prevail. In the past decade, our basic rights have been chiseled away at an alarming rate with things like The Patriot Act and NDAA. Let's all work together intelligently to try and stop it from happening.

Originally posted by dave_welch
reply to post by LightCraft

 

LightCraft, I agree with you, however, reducing a discussion to a shouting match helps nobody. True, it seems most of them won't listen to reason. But, If anything that we post causes someone to change their mind, or at least do some research of their own, then our job has been done correctly. Sometimes you have to, to use an old cliche, "kill them with kindness." In the end, lets all hope that cooler heads prevail. In the past decade, our basic rights have been chiseled away at an alarming rate with things like The Patriot Act and NDAA. Let's all work together intelligently to try and stop it from happening.

dave_welch, I agree and I am with you! We do need to take a sane & intelligent approach to this. Allowing emotion to rule over logic is surely a recipe for disaster. The good news is: I think much of the USA shares the same sentiments.

I just want to say that I live on the US/Mex border. I am legally certified by the state of my residency to grow medicinal plants. Now, I will list the threats to my crops I face daily and why I own a Ruger .223 ranch rifle with high-capacity clips: (personal safety, food/medicine protection, keeping my dog safe, etc)
coyotes in packs of 30 or more
deer
rabbits
javelina (wild pigs)
mountain lions
bears
illegal immigrants migrating to the US in groups of 10-40
greedy/stupid people who see easy money

Originally posted by IandEye
I just want to say that I live on the US/Mex border. I am legally certified by the state of my residency to grow medicinal plants. Now, I will list the threats to my crops I face daily and why I own a Ruger .223 ranch rifle with high-capacity clips: (personal safety, food/medicine protection, keeping my dog safe, etc)
coyotes in packs of 30 or more
deer
rabbits
javelina (wild pigs)
mountain lions
bears
illegal immigrants migrating to the US in groups of 10-40
greedy/stupid people who see easy money

Good for you! I am glad you have a means to protect yourself. I would be especially worried about the Illegals & the Coyotes. Many US citizens have no clue as to what kind of people cross our border illegally. To them it's just a fairy tale that happens in a far away land.

reply to post by LightCraft

Originally posted by LightCraft

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Originally posted by LightCraft

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

That about sums it up, people.

I would like to see your sources and the scientific method used to calculate the numbers. Those numbers look incredibly wrong. I'd be willing to bet that they were made by some shade tree anti-gunner without any factual basis.

Until I see the sources and the methods used to gather them: BUNK.

No no no, only because you don't like the numbers, its not always debunked.
Here is my source, which links to this deeper source.

Edit: The used scientific method would be called "arithmetic", I guess. Usually, you can count the deaths related to guns, and you should know the number of people with permits in your country. I will leave the following to the interested readers, as my old professor used to say..

edit on 19-12-2012 by ManFromEurope because: (no reason given)

The CDC seems to disagree. And I wonder why: That source is hell bent on disarming the entire world! No wonders the numbers are so skewed!

Here's the most recent numbers by the CDC: See cdc.gov

Mortality
All injury deaths

Number of deaths: 177,154
Deaths per 100,000 population: 57.7

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 34,485
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2

All poisoning deaths

Number of deaths: 41,592
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.5

All firearm deaths

Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2

Since else nobody to follow up on this, I was wondering if you could explain what you meant by posting the CDC statistics. I'm frankly boggled as to why you think the numbers you posted from the CDC contradict the numbers from ManFromEurope's source. The statistics you posted were for various types of non-gun-related deaths as well as total firearm deaths in the US, with no separate mention of firearm homicides, while the original information posted showed correlations between firearm ownership and firearm homicides in the US, Canada, Germany, the UK, and Japan. The total US firearm deaths you posted also seemed to be pretty close to the total US firearm deaths tallied by GunPolicy.org.

Were you simply confused by what he posted, or did you accidentally post the wrong information? If it's the latter, could you post the information you found that caused you to believe that the information from ManFromEurope's source is skewed? I'm curious to see the large discrepancies that led you to conclude that the other source's information is inaccurate.