Why do Christians want so badly to be persecuted?

Originally posted by brandiwine14
reply to post by SilentKoala

 

As a non Christian looking in I believe the persecutions of the Christians is just beginning. I see it everywhere, on Facebook it's rampant on the media on every internet news page. I see it on the streets of towns where the baby Jesus was replaced with a sign reading "dont believe in fairy tales". I dealt with it at my work when one of my bosses said "it's happy holidays, not Merry Christmas" I say Merry Christmas anyway. Neighbors complaining over Christmas decorations, and this is just what i've seen the last few weeks. Maybe that's not exactly what you meant by persecution but remember this just seems to be only escalating.

I have actually started to hate family members on my facebook page after reading a full page of writing where one told all Christian believers that "they are wrong, there is no big ghost in the sky" this was yesterday. I had to turn it off.

What happened Atheists? Why do you care what others believe? Does their faith in their God really harm you in any way, make you physically ill? You took their God out of all public schools and now I see you trying to take it out of their homes what is wrong with you all?

Maybe you personally are not persecuting them but it is happening, it is all over and as a friend to many of them I feel sad for them. Some of the best people I have ever known were Christians. I admire their faith because I could never believe blindly. I admire they way they forgive others and let hate go, I could never do that. I admire their love for others, I think it's a beautiful thing that they want to save others and share their faith (even though I dont believe). Nope they dont bother me one bit.

I'm Agnostic btw

edit on 20-12-2012 by brandiwine14 because: (no reason given)

Hello,

I am new here, so I hope I am doing this correctly.

There are some people, both church-goers and non-church goers who are militant in pushing their beliefs and ideas. They share a common rudeness and overbearing nature that just is hurtful toward others.

Frank Schaefer has an interesting book called "Patience With God: Faith for People Who Don't Like Religion (or Atheism)" Schaeffer makes some excellent points about the common attitude on both extremes.

Thanks for reading my post.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by SilentKoala

 

Then stop persecuting Christians, and we wont feel persecuted. However, i am a little to aggressive. It's hard for me to turn the cheek because i much rather die than have someone run their mouth off to me. Something i need to work on.

Confession is good for the soul brother, but we are Southerners and rebels. The important thing is that we strive to learn from our mistakes so we don't keep repeating them.

Who said we want to be persecuted? We'd love nothing better than to spread the Word of Christ through all the world without resistance, the Time of the Gentiles would end faster if people would stop impeding our mission like oh say, muslims for example who make it awfully hard for us to convert when they kill the people we need to convert. It's counter productive to getting the quota fulfilled when the people you need to convert are being murdered or like when proselytizing gets outlawed. Only God knows the number of gentiles he is calling up, we have no idea when he is going to be finished.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Who said we want to be persecuted? We'd love nothing better than to spread the Word of Christ through all the world without resistance, the Time of the Gentiles would end faster if people would stop impeding our mission like oh say, muslims for example who make it awfully hard for us to convert.

While I don't condone violence, its understandable if the muslims don't want Christians proselytizing in their countries. I mean, they take their religion very seriously and wouldn't want foreigners coming in and converting Muslims.

But what about the Jewish efforts to counter Christian missionaries in Israel? I mean, Israel is not even a Jewish theocracy.... but a secular state that allows homosexuals to parade in public... but still they don't want Christians converting people. And yet, evangelical Christians continue to love Israel, and see them as an ally.

Why this double standard? How come I don't see Christians complain about Jews trying to counter Christian proselytizing? There are movements run by Jews designed specifically to counter Christian missionaries.... and yet Christians place Israel and Jews on a pedestal because you believe scripture commands you to do so.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Did you just say that violence is understandable?

And Christ commanded to love and bless one's enemies, that means to love and bless one's enemies believe it or not.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Did you just say that violence is understandable?

And Christ commanded to love and bless one's enemies, that means to love and bless one's enemies believe it or not.

edit on 21-12-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Indeed, Jesus did command his followers to love and bless all other people. But how does one do that when the other person is acting in violent ways?

Jesus also commanded, "Put away your sword, for all who live by the sword will perish by the sword." (Matthew 26:52) So are Christians commanded to be non-violent, as the historic peace churches proclaim? Is pacifism the true Christian response or not?

Thanks for reading my post.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Who said we want to be persecuted? We'd love nothing better than to spread the Word of Christ through all the world without resistance, the Time of the Gentiles would end faster if people would stop impeding our mission like oh say, muslims for example who make it awfully hard for us to convert.

While I don't condone violence, its understandable if the muslims don't want Christians proselytizing in their countries. I mean, they take their religion very seriously and wouldn't want foreigners coming in and converting Muslims.

But what about the Jewish efforts to counter Christian missionaries in Israel? I mean, Israel is not even a Jewish theocracy.... but a secular state that allows homosexuals to parade in public... but still they don't want Christians converting people. And yet, evangelical Christians continue to love Israel, and see them as an ally.

Why this double standard? How come I don't see Christians complain about Jews trying to counter Christian proselytizing? There are movements run by Jews designed specifically to counter Christian missionaries.... and yet Christians place Israel and Jews on a pedestal because you believe scripture commands you to do so.

Christians placing Israel on a pedestal is a false teaching. Some church goers have really misunderstood the fact that the New Testament ways replace the Old Testament ways. Even in the Old Testament, in places like Jeremiah 31:31, the Hebrews were told their way was not going to be the permanent way. When Jesus came he ushered in the new way which replaced the old Hebrew way. Sadly, some church goers have gone to extremes to twist the clear teachings of the New Testament to fit modern secular Israel into some end times scenarios.

Hebrews 8:13 "In speaking of "a new covenant," he has made the first one obsolete. And what is obsolete and growing old will soon disappear."

The following site has many good resources exposing the "conspiracy" which some people try to pass off which unconditionally supports the modern nation of Israel.

www.christianzionism.org...

reply to post by JTreader


Are peacemakers spoken well of by Christ? But also a person should intervene when it's necessary to do something, a man should protect the weak or his family. But a difference of opinion or belief is never justified reason for violence.

reply to post by JTreader


I'm pretty sure Revelation and Romans 9-11 are still in the Bible.

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum

Originally posted by Malcher

Some are "permitted" to be discussed and examined and some are not. Evolution is a belief system and there are many instances and situations where people cannot discuss it, as you put it critically because the members who do believe it will get defensive and take it (for some odd reason) personally.

Remember anything you have not seen with your own eyes is a belief, it is taken on faith. Also remember people are biased.

and not everything you see with your own eyes is necessarily real....

Pretty sure everything seen is real, not accounting for vision issues. Unless you mean animation.

I was only giving an example anyway. Evolution is one of the most debated subjects on the internet.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by JTreader

 

I'm pretty sure Revelation and Romans 9-11 are still in the Bible.

Indeed, Revelation and Romans are still part of the Bible. In those books one can see clearly how the Christian way replaced the Hebrew way.

Romans chapter nine specifically applies as it teaches that true Israel is NOT the nation, but is now the Christian people. Israel is only mentioned 2 times in the book of Revelation, once as a historical remembrance Revelation 2:14, and second in Revelation 7:4 where Israel is used in a symbolic manner showing that all people can be saved through the work of Jesus, who was "King of the Jews" and was the one who ushered in the New Testament. Throughout the New Testament it is consistently taught that Christians are the replacements for Israel, and Jesus even predicted the destruction of the Hebrew Temple. That happened in 70AD.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

But what about the Jewish efforts to counter Christian missionaries in Israel? I mean, Israel is not even a Jewish theocracy.... but a secular state that allows homosexuals to parade in public... but still they don't want Christians converting people. And yet, evangelical Christians continue to love Israel, and see them as an ally.

We're supposed to love the siiner, but hate their sin. There are jews coming to Jesus, even ultra-orthodox jews who denied his existence are coming to him because of rabbi Kaduri so it's a sign the time of the gentiles is nearing it's end. When they recite the Shema (Shema Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad or "Hear of Israel, the lord is our God, the Lord is One") theyre already saying he is their God, they just don't know it is him yet but the ones who do make that distinction, it's explosive and it ignites a fire and a zael in their hearts for him.

Why this double standard? How come I don't see Christians complain about Jews trying to counter Christian proselytizing? There are movements run by Jews designed specifically to counter Christian missionaries.... and yet Christians place Israel and Jews on a pedestal because you believe scripture commands you to do so

Some do, there is documented and video evidence on Youtube of Hassidim attacking christians, some even saying Mary was a whore and that they were glad Jesus was killed. Hard stuff to hear, but Jesus did say he would forgive any blasphemy except to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, because that was the only sin he would not forgive in this life or the next. It doesn't matter if they try to block us or persecute us, they won't succeed because the sign that jews are coming to him even in Israel is proof God's hand is at work, or they would still remain blinded. Persecution is nothing new to us, our forebears were dipped in boiling oil and burned on stakes to light Caesar Nero's gardens at night by, he nicked named us "Roman Candles" which is where the fire work gets its name from, so the jews calling Mary a whore and disrespecting Jesus is pretty mild compared to being dipped in boiling oil and burned at the stake, having hurt feelings is nothing compared to having the flesh torn from your hide for being scourged by a cat of 9 tails, or thrown to lions and gladiators to the roar and cheering of the crowds.

Converting a jew is by far easier than converting a muslim. Jews know the torah and tenach and it's symbolism, they can read into the scriptures and when they read the new testament, Jesus speaks to many of their hearts and they know, even if they are afraid to come forward and admit it for fear of being excommunicated from synogogue and cut off forever. Excommunication is nothing new, the roman catholics got it from the jews, even though Rome hates to admit that even christianity came from the jews in the first place.

reply to post by JTreader

Indeed, Revelation and Romans are still part of the Bible. In those books one can see clearly how the Christian way replaced the Hebrew way.

Christianity did not replace the hebrew way. The word "hebrew" means "those who cross over from a foreign land", meaning a spiritually foriegn land, allegorically out of "Babylon". We are the fulfillment of the old testament scriptures prophecies, the promise realized. The "hebrew way" is Jesus Christ's way, and he is the King of Kings, the King of Israel and the Holy One. Jewishness is imbedded all in christianity and i'll show you where.


Jewish Feasts and prophetic fulfillments
Passover/Pesach = Lamb of God slain, Christ's crucifiction
Shavuot (Feast of Weeks) 50 days after Passover = Pentecost, Holy Spirit recieved 50 days after Christ crucified
Rosh Hashana (Feast of Trumpets) = Rapture/Harpazo calling up event
Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) = Christ's second coming and first judgement day
Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles) = Marriage Feast of the Lamb (Jesus Christ weds his Bride)

Passover and Communion

The first Passover was done in Egypt, the Lamb taken and slain for the protection of Israel so God's wrath would Passover them and only take the firstborn of Egypt, the blood of the lamb coating the doorways protecting them from God's wrath. Then they were required to consume a portion of the lamb with bitter herbs and wine. The lamb symbolized Christ/Messiah, the Wine symbolized his blood and the bitter herbs symbolized our grief at our King giving himself up to be slain to protect us from God's wrath so it would Passover us.

The first Communion performed at the Last Supper before Christ was crucified, the bread (wafer/cracker)symbolizing the broken body of the Lamb, the wine symbolizing his blood spilt to cover the doorways to our hearts, protecting us from God's wrath and cleansing our sins. The bread (wafer/cracker) representing the Bread of Life (Jesus) and taking that Bread of Life within ourselves and consuming it. The Bread of Life is Christ's teachings, the Word of God and by "consuming" that teaching and taking it within ourselves we can have new life. So by taking the Bread of Life into ourselves and the Wine, we are symbolizing taking Christ's teachings into ourselves and believing in him.

When the jews do Passover feast, they are performing the prophetic equivalent of Communion. We are the same people, we are brothers evne if the jews do not recognize us yet and prophet Zechariah even told us who we are.

Zechariah 11:11-14

11 So it was broken on that day. Thus the poor of the flock, who were watching me, knew that it was the word of the Lord. 12 Then I said to them, “If it is agreeable to you, give me my wages; and if not, refrain.” So they weighed out for my wages thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—that princely price they set on me. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord for the potter. 14 Then I cut in two my other staff, Bonds, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

Verse 12-13 was fulfilled by Judas Iscariot when he tried to return the 30 pieces of silver for Christ's betrayal, the pharisees refused to take the money because it was unlawful to put blood money in the temple so Judas threw the money into he temple and hanged himself. The pharisees then took the money and bot a potter's field to bury the poor in.

Then the next part of the prophecy we see in verse 14 God's breaks his staff called Bonds to break the brotherhood between Israel and Judah. That was fulfilled at Christ's crucifiction. The jews having Jesus crucified caused a split between the messianic jews and what later became orthodox judaism. But that Breach will be repaired in Ezekiel 37:15-28 which is set for a yet future date. The Northern Kingdom Ephraim was returnd to God through Jesus Christ, the lost sheep of Israel he had been sent to who became: Christianity.

The jews are our brothers, they just do not know it yet and the muslim's own Quran calls us both "the People of the Book", they already know who we are even if they do not know the why of it.

So in that regard, we are hebrews, for we have "crossed over from a foriegn land", the land of spiritual death. Abraham was not born hebrew, he had to crossover himself too.

Same old psychology.

People like to feel special, and they like to feel superior. Religion of any kind gives people the chance -- without ever having to prove it -- that they know The Truth, while other people don't. And when faced with the fact that they can't directly, positively prove they are right, they settle back on bad logical proofs, one of the most favorite being, "If other people hate us so much to persecute us, then we must be on to something powerful and right." It's us versus them, and we get to be heroes and martyrs and we're good and they're evil and we're right and they're wrong.

Just about the worst thing that can happen to any religion is not hate or persecution, but indifference and/or acceptance. The number one threat to Jewish culture in America? Success. Marrying non-Jewish people, blurring the line between "them" and "us." Same thing with Christians. Which is why so many evangelical types like to play up the conflict.

I don't believe ALL Christians want to be persecuted or even feel that they ARE being persecuted but there is a high number who will squeal about being persecuted if their butts aren't being kissed. There are a few in this thread. I think the OP asked a fair enough question, yet some of you are acting like he/she is applying the thumb screws. Maybe this is what you need:

Originally posted by JTreader

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by JTreader

 

I'm pretty sure Revelation and Romans 9-11 are still in the Bible.

Indeed, Revelation and Romans are still part of the Bible. In those books one can see clearly how the Christian way replaced the Hebrew way.

Romans chapter nine specifically applies as it teaches that true Israel is NOT the nation, but is now the Christian people. Israel is only mentioned 2 times in the book of Revelation, once as a historical remembrance Revelation 2:14, and second in Revelation 7:4 where Israel is used in a symbolic manner showing that all people can be saved through the work of Jesus, who was "King of the Jews" and was the one who ushered in the New Testament. Throughout the New Testament it is consistently taught that Christians are the replacements for Israel, and Jesus even predicted the destruction of the Hebrew Temple. That happened in 70AD.

Hmmm, wonder which temple Revelation speaks about considering it was written about 25 years after Herod's temple was toppled? And the church, (Ekklesia), isn't mentioned on Earth after chapter 4:1. It's a very Jewish book after that point. Paul also says that the attention will be on the redemption of Israel after the fullness of the gentiles is complete. Jesus also said their national blindness would not be permanent.

I'm pretty secure in trusting Jesus, John, and Paul.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by JTreader

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by JTreader

 

I'm pretty sure Revelation and Romans 9-11 are still in the Bible.

Indeed, Revelation and Romans are still part of the Bible. In those books one can see clearly how the Christian way replaced the Hebrew way.

Romans chapter nine specifically applies as it teaches that true Israel is NOT the nation, but is now the Christian people. Israel is only mentioned 2 times in the book of Revelation, once as a historical remembrance Revelation 2:14, and second in Revelation 7:4 where Israel is used in a symbolic manner showing that all people can be saved through the work of Jesus, who was "King of the Jews" and was the one who ushered in the New Testament. Throughout the New Testament it is consistently taught that Christians are the replacements for Israel, and Jesus even predicted the destruction of the Hebrew Temple. That happened in 70AD.

Hmmm, wonder which temple Revelation speaks about considering it was written about 25 years after Herod's temple was toppled? And the church, (Ekklesia), isn't mentioned on Earth after chapter 4:1. It's a very Jewish book after that point. Paul also says that the attention will be on the redemption of Israel after the fullness of the gentiles is complete. Jesus also said their national blindness would not be permanent.

I'm pretty secure in trusting Jesus, John, and Paul.

You want to see how Jewish the book of Revelation is? Go read all of Zechariah 4 and then read Revelation 1:20 and Revelation 11:1-6, i just saw that today and my jaw hit the floor. I have heard the Hanakkuh Menorah has Moses and Elijah (2 olive trees) represented as the 2 extra lamps in the Hanakkuh menorah.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Yes, this is true.

Christianity 'close to extinction' in Middle East
www.telegraph.co.uk...

The study warns that Christians suffer greater hostility across the world than any other religious group.

And it claims politicians have been “blind” to the extent of violence faced by Christians in Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

The most common threat to Christians abroad is militant Islam, it says, claiming that oppression in Muslim countries is often ignored because of a fear that criticism will be seen as “racism”.

It warns that converts from Islam face being killed in Saudi Arabia, Mauritania and Iran and risk severe legal penalties in other countries across the Middle East.

It cites estimates that 200 million Christians, or 10 per cent of Christians worldwide, are “socially disadvantaged, harassed or actively oppressed for their beliefs.”

“Exposing and combating the problem ought in my view to be political priorities across large areas of the world. That this is not the case tells us much about a questionable hierarchy of victimhood,” says the author, Rupert Shortt, a journalist and visiting fellow of Blackfriars Hall, Oxford.

In Pakistan, the murder last year of Shahbaz Bhatti, the country’s Catholic minister for minorities, “vividly reflected” religious intolerance in Pakistan.

Shortly after his death it emerged that Mr Bhatti had recorded a video in which he declared: “I am living for my community and for suffering people and I will die to defend their rights.

"I prefer to die for my principles and for the justice of my community rather than to compromise. I want to share that I believe in Jesus Christ, who has given his own life for us.”

The report also warns that Christians in India have faced years of violence from Hindu extremists. In 2010 scores of attacks on Christians and church property were carried out in Karnataka, a state in south west India.

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