Why do Christians want so badly to be persecuted?

I wanted to add one last post in response that throughout history Christians were uneducated delusional martyrs.

List of Roman Catholic cleric–scientists
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God as Architect/Geometer, from the frontispiece of French Codex Vindobonensis 2554, ca. 1250.

Many Roman Catholic clerics[1] throughout history have made significant contributions to science. These cleric-scientists include such illustrious names as Nicolaus Copernicus, Gregor Mendel, Georges Lemaître, Albertus Magnus, Roger Bacon, Pierre Gassendi, Roger Joseph Boscovich, Marin Mersenne, Francesco Maria Grimaldi, Nicole Oresme, Jean Buridan, Robert Grosseteste, Christopher Clavius, Nicolas Steno, Athanasius Kircher, Giovanni Battista Riccioli, William of Ockham, and others listed below. The Catholic Church has also produced many lay scientists and mathematicians.
en.wikipedia.org...
The Jesuits in particular have made numerous significant contributions to the development of science. For example, the Jesuits have dedicated significant study to earthquakes, and seismology has been described as "the Jesuit science."[2][3] The Jesuits have been described as "the single most important contributor to experimental physics in the seventeenth century."[4] According to Jonathan Wright in his book God's Soldiers, by the eighteenth century the Jesuits had "contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter’s surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn’s rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon effected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light."[5]

You will find a large list at the link.

List of Christian thinkers in science
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by micmerci

Why do people who have professed to not believe in or have no interest in Christ or Christianity have so much interest in Christians and their beliefs and behaviors?

Because they are fascinating, in a sort of curious way.... that makes some people scratch their heads and say "What? Really?" and they really want to know why people hold to those beliefs - to some of us, that dogmatic, uncurious mindset is really perplexing.

BTW, I'm an agnostic. More interested in social science and anthropology; basic human behavior.

As my daughter used to say at age 2-3...."Why do you?" in her little, innocent, sing-song curious voice. Did I think she was persecuting me? No.

So when I ask Christians "why do you?" it is a natural curiosity to learn more about the person's mode of thinking and objectives. I know there are trolls, though, who just want to poke fun and mock. I find some aspects of fundamental Christianity very childish, but I'm still fascinated with the phenomenon.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I think you've zeroed in on ONE TYPE of Christian. Certainly, without doubt, there are brilliant, educated people who choose to accept Christian beliefs.

It is the ones who have been steered along on a "leash" so to speak, and never questioned, nor doubted, nor were exposed to alternatives, that baffle me.

Spirituality is a very abstract - and personal - thing. Some people just have no interest in learning what others think, or why others - or they themselves! - think the way they do.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Christianity has gone through many changes, one of the major churches is now actually teaching with an understanding of the history of the region instead of only the philosophical and spiritual lessons

I don't know any Christians that only have one book in their home.

Okay, if you want to count cookbooks, I take it back.

My point is that the more educated a person is - in Liberal Arts and Humanities (a broad background in many different subjects) - the less likely they are to have only The Bible (and a few church-ladies-compiled cookbooks for marshmallow salad and green bean casserole).....in their homes.

The world is HUGE, and it's filled with exotic ideas and different cultures and 7 billion different points of view.

How anyone can feel satisfied to be born, live, and die in one place, while following all local rules happily, and stick to the same factory job for decades until they're ready to drop dead - without hungering for more is what I don't understand.

But, point taken.

edit on 19-12-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-12-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Hmmm, but what about those of us who read a book a week?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Hmmm, but what about those of us who read a book a week?

Yeah!
I know! RIGHT??

HOW do you stay in that place, NuT?!

WHAT do you think is the reason that you don't move past that spot?!

You are one of the more interesting believers on here. I want to understand. The members like you who are complex, and well-read, and have experienced stuff.....are the most fascinating of all.


I just don't get it.
I don't.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


But, NuT.....
your post doesn't address the point I was making.

I said the more educated, the less likely to have only the Bible in their homes.

I've also acknowledged there are many very bright people who follow the Bible and adhere to Christianity (in one form or another)....

I mentioned, as well, those who are content to stay in one place for their entire lives.

I'm a restless kind of person.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Also, (one more Q)

Do you "want so badly" (or, feel a need) "to be persecuted?"

I hope you answer this one. You're an important answer to the whole thread.

reply to post by micmerci


Because agnostic people tend to scrutinize all possibilities with an open mind. With out being judgmental, we try to find out if god is a worthy quest or a fools errand.

if you feel you are being attacked and persecuted you feel justified in your own acts of violence and persecution so people will feign being the victims of aggression in order to act aggressively themselves

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Hmmm, but what about those of us who read a book a week?

Yeah!

I know! RIGHT??

HOW do you stay in that place, NuT?!

WHAT do you think is the reason that you don't move past that spot?!

You are one of the more interesting believers on here. I want to understand. The members like you who are complex, and well-read, and have experienced stuff.....are the most fascinating of all.


I just don't get it.
I don't.

What's there to get?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

But, NuT.....
your post doesn't address the point I was making.

I said the more educated, the less likely to have only the Bible in their homes.

I've also acknowledged there are many very bright people who follow the Bible and adhere to Christianity (in one form or another)....

I mentioned, as well, those who are content to stay in one place for their entire lives.

I'm a restless kind of person.

edit on 19-12-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

I'm not quite following you really. In other news I just drastically changed my career field and am now on the road travelling 5-6 days a week.

That's sorta not staying in one place wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Also, (one more Q)

Do you "want so badly" (or, feel a need) "to be persecuted?"

I hope you answer this one. You're an important answer to the whole thread.

Never had the desire, faint or substantial. If I'm meant to be martyred so be it. As far as verbal abuse, I'm old school. After reading Fox's Book of Martyrs, and what other Christians endured that hardly qualifies as "persecution".

I am an ex christian, mostly agnostic at this point. I have had Methodist, Catholic, and Baptist training. According to each of them all of the others are going to hell. Do you Christian believers not understand why many of us believe nothing that you say? At least in Islam, there are only two different beliefs.

Where, exactly, is the conspiracy? Thinking that people might, for some unfathomable reason, wish to be treated badly, doesn't sound like some conspiracy to me. This topic seems more appropriate to religious debate than religious conspiracies.

If you believe there is some plot there, please be more specific.

reply to post by SilentKoala


A persecution 'complex', is most often derived from feelings of guilt...unspecified 'guilt' is built-into the christian 'ethos'...the scapegoat for this guilt is 'original sin' and the need to save and be saved...but, the scapegoat is an alter-image of thier own inability to take responsibility for thier own lives...hence the ethos for a saviour - through whom this saving can be achieved, and also a nemesis from whom you should be saved from...

This was worked out a long time ago and continues to this day...
A nice, neat, little merry-go-round of circular and self-fulfilling reasons for persecution...
Masochism comes to mind...the dynamic requires an opposite...enter, the persecutor, the sadist...simple dynamic, simple stories, simple psychology...

A99

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Hmmm! I hope your new career experiment serves you well!!

My questions to you (for the purposes of this thread), are -

first of all, what sort of books do you read? Are they all "Jesus" books? Are they a variety of fiction and non-fiction? How much familiarity do you have with various religions and other mythological stories from history (the Roman or Greek Pantheons, the Egyptian, the Native American, the Australian Aboriginal, the Eastern - Chinese, Indian, Tibetan, etc - the South American, the Pagan)?

If you have studied all of them (have you?) how do you remain strictly convinced and loyal to "Jesus" as the only way to "salvation"? Do you ever doubt, or wonder, or dare to explore other spiritual systems or myths?

I have no desire to be persecuted ever, verbally or physically.
However that isn't the reality for any christian living in the 21 century.
This scripture answers the question as Jesus clearly stated what was coming for Christians.......

John 15 18-21

18 If the world hates you, know that it hated Me before it hated you.
19 If you belonged to the world, the world would treat you with affection and would love you as its own. But because you are not of the world [no longer one with it], but I have chosen (selected) you out of the world, the world hates (detests) you.
20 Remember that I told you, A servant is not greater than his master [is not superior to him]. If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word and obeyed My teachings, they will also keep and obey yours.
21 But they will do all this to you [inflict all this suffering on you] because of [your bearing] My name and on My account, for they do not know or understand the One Who sent Me.

This is the reality, and the amount of insulting innuendo that is pushed onto Christians that are really trying to follow Christs teaching is obvious these days. Of coarse there are the deviants that deserve to be treated as fools, but then again people like the westboro baptist church people, show by their actions they aren't following Jesus, they are apostates to the principles he lived by and taught by, especially agape love towards their fellow man.

reply to post by SilentKoala


As a non Christian looking in I believe the persecutions of the Christians is just beginning. I see it everywhere, on Facebook it's rampant on the media on every internet news page. I see it on the streets of towns where the baby Jesus was replaced with a sign reading "dont believe in fairy tales". I dealt with it at my work when one of my bosses said "it's happy holidays, not Merry Christmas" I say Merry Christmas anyway. Neighbors complaining over Christmas decorations, and this is just what i've seen the last few weeks. Maybe that's not exactly what you meant by persecution but remember this just seems to be only escalating.

I have actually started to hate family members on my facebook page after reading a full page of writing where one told all Christian believers that "they are wrong, there is no big ghost in the sky" this was yesterday. I had to turn it off.

What happened Atheists? Why do you care what others believe? Does their faith in their God really harm you in any way, make you physically ill? You took their God out of all public schools and now I see you trying to take it out of their homes what is wrong with you all?

Maybe you personally are not persecuting them but it is happening, it is all over and as a friend to many of them I feel sad for them. Some of the best people I have ever known were Christians. I admire their faith because I could never believe blindly. I admire they way they forgive others and let hate go, I could never do that. I admire their love for others, I think it's a beautiful thing that they want to save others and share their faith (even though I dont believe). Nope they dont bother me one bit.

I'm Agnostic btw

My mother was beaten nearly unconscious when she became a Christian. I guarantee that she did not want this to happen. I was 5 years old when that happened but can still remember her screams. She is still treated harshly by some family members due to her faith. The only Christians who want to be persecuted are those with mental problems.

Originally posted by Sparky63
My mother was beaten nearly unconscious when she became a Christian. I guarantee that she did not want this to happen. I was 5 years old when that happened but can still remember her screams. She is still treated harshly by some family members due to her faith. The only Christians who want to be persecuted are those with mental problems.

edit on 12/20/2012 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)

Who beat her? Why? What religion was she raised in?