Americans Must Watch; The true sentiment of the British!

Originally posted by Northfield
reply to post by ajay59

 

I'm English and spent nine years living in New York. There is a great deal of anti-gun sentiment in the UK from the massacres we've had here: Dunblane and Hungerford and I have to admit that before spending time in America I was one of the anti-gun proponents.

The UK has not yet needed an armed populace to overthrow a tyrannical government. The use of and threat of violence has been enough to effect change through Parliamentary democracy; however, that was not the case in the US. Gun ownership in the US is about responsible citizenship and the people having the innate ability to defend their freedom and oppose unlawful and tyrannical government. The freedom of Americans has been under consistent attack from within for a very long time and the US government like the UK government is becoming increasingly tyrannical in its support of the wealthy and the brutal subjugation of the middle and working classes.

Without the right to bear arms there will be nothing to stop the total domination of the American people and while tragedies like Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech and Columbine et al are tragic beyond belief the answer is not to take away the hard fought for rights of responsible citizens but to enforce those rights and perhaps create a new type of citizen: the well trained and responsible citizen that carries a concealed weapon so that they can protect their fellow citizens if they are able. If the principal and one or more teacher had been trained and armed then perhaps the gunman would have been stopped or even deterred from carrying out the attack in the first place through the potential threat to themselves.

Perhaps the gunman that would walk into the cinema, mall, church or their former place of work would think twice ...

"Without the right to bear arms there will be nothing to stop the total domination of the American "

Really ...BY who? the government the MAJORITY voted in?
Are americans still looking for reds under the beds?those second ammendment rights really helped you out during 911 eh!!!

reply to post by gambon


The greatest threat to the majority of the citizens of the US and the UK is not from terrorists but from the very governments that purport to represent them. Elections are nothing but the illusion of choice with nothing more than subtle differences between the parties but when it comes down to it all parties of the UK and the US are united in their policies both foreign and domestic.

I walked into Liverpool Street station, a mainline train station in London yesterday. There were two armed policemen by the entrance and I can tell you that as a Brit the sight of them made me feel intensely uncomfortable. I do not like seeing armed Bobbies. This is the UK, not bloody France.

reply to post by Northfield

I'm English and spent nine years living in New York. There is a great deal of anti-gun sentiment in the UK from the massacres we've had here: Dunblane and Hungerford...

Of course events like Dunblane and Hungerford have helped shape the UK viewpoint on gun control - and it would have been highly negligent and irresponsible if legislation hadn't followed to help minimise the chances of such occurences happening again.

And guess what, whilst gun crime is by no means non-existent it is however significantly lower than the US - surely that's not a bad thing is it?

The UK has not yet needed an armed populace to overthrow a tyrannical government. The use of and threat of violence has been enough to effect change through Parliamentary democracy;

You seem to be forgetting the little matter of The English Civil War?

however, that was not the case in the US.

Err....when?

When have the American people ever taken up arms to oppose their government?

Gun ownership in the US is about responsible citizenship and the people having the innate ability to defend their freedom and oppose unlawful and tyrannical government.

That may have been true 240 odd years ago but is it really still relevant now?
And if a tyrannical government really wanted to oppress the US people do you really think their Glocks and hunting rifles will make a difference considering the weaponry that would be available to a tyrannical government?

The freedom of Americans has been under consistent attack from within for a very long time

Really?
I have asked before in several threads for examples of how US freedoms are under attack from their government - a government that is so tyrannical they have, in accordance with their beloved US Constitution, democratically re-elected.

and the US government like the UK government is becoming increasingly tyrannical in its support of the wealthy and the brutal subjugation of the middle and working classes.

Tyrannical?
I'd agreee that Cameron is certainly more openly and actively supportive of the wealthy elite and has a complete disregard for the cares, concerns and interests of 'ordinary' working people, but it's hardly 'brutal subjugation' - yet.
But as far as I can tell I really don't see how anyone can accuse Obama of being any more pro-elites than either Bush senior or Dubya.

And if Obama is so repressive why did the American people re-elect him?
Or why don't they take advantage of their Second Amendment and take up arms against him?

Why are Americans so obsessed with the idea that their own government is going to turn on them?

im British, i think that we need some middle ground.......... no guns is a bad way to go, but who owns them and what type of guns are available is something that should be strictly regulated.
but then again, that's just my opinion, i don't speak for the entire British population

Originally posted by Maxatoria
reply to post by Suspiria

 

Hmmm in a emergency where would one hole up? suppose the highwayman is still going? (but its i aint seen my card for lord knows how long)

but at short notice it'd have to be one of the pubs on london road in stoke so i could secure my mum but after that i'd hope my uncle would turn up with his shotguns that he's licensed for and then we could make plans

Think they built houses on the Highwayman, it was derilict for years. The Winking Man kinda took up the baton as country retreat mosh house after that. Last friday of every month.

reply to post by ajay59



OP, you could take a video of a rally/gathering from the KKK or BNP and say that they re the true views and sentiment of the British or American people, doesn't make it so

Originally posted by ajay59
reply to post by Freeborn

 

IMO you are an obvious disinfo agent who quite readily came up with CIA from mention of Langley, something that many here couldn't do. I could think of no other reason my British brothers would be so bothered by our second amendment right.

How about the fact that those of us who like to visit the USA don't want to get shot by some trigger-happy nutcase when all we wanted were directions?

Sadly you cant "uncook" the goose and the Brits "cooked their (own) goose" I am afraid. There is no way all of their gun laws will be reversed. They have all but eliminated hunting now as well.

I'm British, to be more exact English.

I don't believe in having fire arms. It does work here. And is proven.
I for one haven't even seen a gun on the streets, and I live in, and was brought up in a rough area of Manchester.

If US citizens want to keep their fire-arms then maybe a better way of applying is needed?
Or just stop selling general people enormous semi-auto assault rifles or whatever 'over the top hunting or self defense guns are'?

I did notice 1 significant thing from the video, 90% of the people on it are 'Middle class' and more precise
50/60's baby boomers generation.
I am not middle class. If there is a 'struggling student class' I would put myself in that category.

The class difference in the UK will always lead to a difference of opinion.

In a lot of the cases in the protest on the video, it's about fox hunting (A rather barbaric sport / hobby? for the middle/upper classes)
I'm not even getting into the fox hunting debate, i think it's wrong and I'll just leave it there. But to quote the middle class guy in the suede waist coat

“This isn't about banning fox hunting, this is about the liberty of the individual and the freedom to chose what they do” - Roughly.

So 'what we want to do', as in? maybe wipe out a complete species of badger, or even better how about the upper classes? - Just a silly thing to say.

Another Quote from the video.
We've seen a 40% increase in crime since the ban was introduced = Not true.

These are the official stats from when the ban on small fire arms was introduced.

FIREARM STATISTICS 2008-09
In 2008-09 firearms were involved in 0.3% or 1 in every 330 crimes recorded by police in England and Wales
Firearms were used in 14,250 recorded crimes in 2008-09, an 18% decrease on 2007-08, and the fifth consecutive annual fall
Excluding air weapons, firearm offences decreased by 17% to 8,208
Handguns were used in 4,275 offences during 2008-09, a rise of 2% on 2007-08
There was a large fall in the use of imitation weapons, which fell by 41% to 1,511
Overall, firearm offences involving any type of injury were down by 41% in 2008-09, from 4,164 in 2007-08 to 2,458
There were 39 fatal injuries from crimes involving firearms in 2008-09, the lowest recorded by the police in 20 years.

www.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by CosmicCitizen

Sadly you cant "uncook" the goose and the Brits "cooked their (own) goose" I am afraid.

And it was very nice too thank you very much.

There is no way all of their gun laws will be reversed.

Good, that's exactly what the vast majority of us want.

They have all but eliminated hunting now as well.

Well, considering fox hunting was a barbaric 'sport' practiced by inbred, silver spoon fed, rural toffs and was something that the vast majority of UK citizens found thoroughly abhorent that's a good thing - unless of course you're one of those who enjoy torturing wild animals?

Game shooting etc is still very common in the UK and attracts people from all walks of life.

I am British and would personally welcome a more readily available gun ownership.
That coupled with more defined "what you can and cant do when someone enters your property law".
At present people (quite a few I expect)over here make do with cricket bats, baseball bats, hammers etc near there bed for the intruder that might one day enter your property with an intent to do bad stuff (rob, rape , kill and or all the above) and we are not sure what we can do to defend onself. hit em once? twice until unconcious, till they run off? at least with a gun, you can shoot and put them down pretty quickly and easily.
But on the question of what type of guns, assult rifles? really?

finally imho with the hard times I expect more crime will occur, home invasions etc.
Anyway i thought this was a conspiracy website, we should all be pro gun. Zombies, alien invasion, natural disaster and marauding bands of cannibals etc etc

reply to post by ajay59


LMAO at this video

Firstly that march for "freedom" was about the ban on fox hunting where they do not even use guns, then hunt the foxes on horseback with a pack of dogs and the fox dies by being ripped apart by the dogs, no guns involved. It was banned hence the march. It would appear a few ex gun owners turned up.

The case of the guy who shot the intruders, the guns he owned where legal and the intruders didn't have guns. Unarmed intruders - check, armed house owner - check. The law regarding gun ownership seems not to be in question. The law that is in question was about whether you can kill someone who breaks into your house. This law is currently being looked at with changes due to be made in favour of someone defending their property, hopefully in a sensible way without allowing the out and out right to just kill people for breaking in.

I pity people who are presented with this video as fact without also getting to see any information about the actual reality to show it for what it is. The maker of it is taking irrelevant events and using them to mislead people, they clearly have an agenda and reason to deliberately lie.

My own view on gun ownership: I'm 42 years old and I've never seen a real gun and I'm pretty happy about that. I grew up on a fairly rough estate and knew pretty much everyone including the drug dealers, the smack heads who rob peoples houses, etc etc and I knew of not a single one that had a gun, just reading back this sentence as I write it is strange, having to explain that noone I knew had a gun as if it's not normal. This situation is highly preferable to one where every day people have to have a gun because so many of the criminals have them.

When everyone has guns more people die. It's just fact.

I do fear it's too late for the USA. The country is already flooded with weapons and I've no idea how you could ever turn the clock back on that.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Tyrannical?
I'd agreee that Cameron is certainly more openly and actively supportive of the wealthy elite and has a complete disregard for the cares, concerns and interests of 'ordinary' working people, but it's hardly 'brutal subjugation' - yet.
But as far as I can tell I really don't see how anyone can accuse Obama of being any more pro-elites than either Bush senior or Dubya.

And if Obama is so repressive why did the American people re-elect him?
Or why don't they take advantage of their Second Amendment and take up arms against him?

Why are Americans so obsessed with the idea that their own government is going to turn on them?

Exactly, its absurd they need weapons to keep the government in check. If something major was to happen you got to remember the military is made up of american citizens. They are just as likely to rebel as the average citizen.

Thankfully it would never happen in this day an age, such a government would be ejected.

As well thought out a thread as the recent my kids are blah and I own a gun thread... very tedious.... A group of people is not the whole nation.... Here in the UK we still have a real republic as opposed to the fake republic the US think they have... You only have to see how they pick the Presidential Candidate to see how they do not have a republic of which they base their whole ethos upon. I digress.....
The Bobby in the video probably failed his firearms exam or was beat to the quick by a colleague and has weiner envy..... We as a true Republic (In the Plato sense... Utopia. I recommend you read Plato's Republic before you label yourself as one, you'll find your no where near) are more than a few idiots with gun envy on a video as I hope is the case for America else your country will self destruct...... Julius Caesar,"Et tu Brute"....

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
Sadly you cant "uncook" the goose and the Brits "cooked their (own) goose" I am afraid. There is no way all of their gun laws will be reversed. They have all but eliminated hunting now as well.

Hunting with foxes is what I think you're referring to. And they use dogs, not guns.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by ajay59
We have seen many posts on here from people claiming to be British on our gun rights. This video paints a totally different picture of how they feel! The video basically shows how they realize their mistake of relinquishing their weapons and now would like to have them back. They also sternly warn Americans not let this happen to them.

Just in case the embed dose not work: www.youtube.com...

The true sentiment of the British? So, any Briton who offers an alternative view to the one in the clip is a lie?

Have you anything to back this up other than 'hey, I've found someone who is British and agrees with my views on gun ownership.

Surely, the 'truth' is that, as with Americans, some are pro-gun, some are antigun and some couldn't really give a monkey's. Or are you really, really trying to pass off this YouTube clip as 'the truth'? Pfffft.

So the dozens of people interviewed and the thousands of people marching doesn't indicate the sentiment of the people. You're absolutely mental.

There is obviously much truth to the video, the scenes and interviews speak for themselves. Here you even have a Police officer who is fearful for his own life. Get a clue!

Typical anti-gun mentality. No logic whatsoever.

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
Sadly you cant "uncook" the goose and the Brits "cooked their (own) goose" I am afraid. There is no way all of their gun laws will be reversed. They have all but eliminated hunting now as well.

The only banned hunting is that of foxes... due to its barbarity of dogs ripping apart the poor fox. They will be culled when numbers become a problem, we as a country are quite good at presevation as we the Great British Public have the power to dictate via our elected by the people, member of Parliament. All other types of hunting are still ongoing and are managed by the estates they take place on.

Originally posted by LightCraft

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by ajay59
We have seen many posts on here from people claiming to be British on our gun rights. This video paints a totally different picture of how they feel! The video basically shows how they realize their mistake of relinquishing their weapons and now would like to have them back. They also sternly warn Americans not let this happen to them.

Just in case the embed dose not work: www.youtube.com...

The true sentiment of the British? So, any Briton who offers an alternative view to the one in the clip is a lie?

Have you anything to back this up other than 'hey, I've found someone who is British and agrees with my views on gun ownership.

Surely, the 'truth' is that, as with Americans, some are pro-gun, some are antigun and some couldn't really give a monkey's. Or are you really, really trying to pass off this YouTube clip as 'the truth'? Pfffft.

So the dozens of people interviewed and the thousands of people marching doesn't indicate the sentiment of the people. You're absolutely mental.

There is obviously much truth to the video, the scenes and interviews speak for themselves. Here you even have a Police officer who is fearful for his own life. Get a clue!

Typical anti-gun mentality. No logic whatsoever.

Dozens do not 50 million make..... Infact I don't recall seeing thousaunds marching anywhere for the right to be given a gun.... Delusional, not Mental and I think you are thinking retrospectively

FYI The video was regards to certain hunting(Foxes to be exact) and one man bleating about his pistol isn't the whole demonstration in the video... Like I said Delusional.

Originally posted by LightCraft

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by ajay59
We have seen many posts on here from people claiming to be British on our gun rights. This video paints a totally different picture of how they feel! The video basically shows how they realize their mistake of relinquishing their weapons and now would like to have them back. They also sternly warn Americans not let this happen to them.

Just in case the embed dose not work: www.youtube.com...

The true sentiment of the British? So, any Briton who offers an alternative view to the one in the clip is a lie?

Have you anything to back this up other than 'hey, I've found someone who is British and agrees with my views on gun ownership.

Surely, the 'truth' is that, as with Americans, some are pro-gun, some are antigun and some couldn't really give a monkey's. Or are you really, really trying to pass off this YouTube clip as 'the truth'? Pfffft.

So the dozens of people interviewed and the thousands of people marching doesn't indicate the sentiment of the people. You're absolutely mental.

There is obviously much truth to the video, the scenes and interviews speak for themselves. Here you even have a Police officer who is fearful for his own life. Get a clue!

Typical anti-gun mentality. No logic whatsoever.

The "thousands" of people at the march were objecting to the ban on fox hunting which doesn't even involve guns and most of those questioned were talking about that. The vast majority and I'm literally talking about 99.99% of the British population have no involvement in fox hunting and most of those see it as barbaric. The fox they chase around the country side on horseback is ripped apart by a huge pack of dogs, it has no link to gun laws what so ever.