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Originally posted by qmantoo
Titled - Layered Martian Outcrop 'Shaler' in 'Glenelg' Area
To me, this is showing standing water beneath these shale-like ledges. I can see the reflection - just like you can when you go for a walk beside the river here on Earth.
If you had not been TOLD over and over again there was no water currently on Mars, wouldn't you just assume these were puddles of water? It suddenly came into my mind that this is what we are being shown here and maybe this is why the picture was taken. We all know that the best way to hide something is in plain sight and so to me, this is what it is.
C'mon scientists of the world - dont be so fixed - NASA are showing you this to move you towards an understanding that there is water on Mars. Realise what you are being shown.
Copied from here
Photojournal page with tif format (not that it is much better at 8Mb)
Of course, I suppose it could be just me 'seeing' what I want to see. :-)
Originally posted by qmantoo
I have been wrong before and I am quite prepared to be wrong again, but.... how do we explain the grey area and the dark shadow area.
As I said above, the grey area has NO detail, and the shadow dark area HAS detail in it. This is exactly how an area of water would appear with shadow on part of it and reflection of the lighter sky on the other part of it. This is what we have here. The image above with the two red arrows is correct. The area in question is the area the lower red arrow is pointing at.
Yes 'appears' is the right word, however the finer sand also follows the outline of the upper slate part and this would not make sense. The whole area would be finer sand if this was the case. What you are calling the finer sand area goes abruptly into what I call shadow area where you can see the larger pebbles of the bottom.
The grey area appears to be finer sand and the more detailed area below seems to be pebble like. Think of a snow drift for the grey area.
Many scientists believe that liquid water does not and cannot exist on the surface of Mars today. Although surface water may have been plentiful in Mars' past, they say, the current conditions of freezing temperatures and a thin atmosphere mean that any water on Mars would have to be deep underground. Moreover, if any water ice existing on Mars were somehow warmed, it still wouldn't melt into water. The thin martian atmosphere instead would cause the ice to sublime directly into water vapor.
But Dr. Gilbert Levin of Spherix, Inc., and his son, Dr. Ron Levin of MIT's Lincoln Laboratory, believe differently. They say that liquid water-in limited amounts and for limited times-can exist on the surface of present-day Mars. They have based their theory on data collected from the Viking landers and on the 1997 Mars Pathfinder mission.
This father-son team has suggested a diurnal water cycle on Mars: water vapor in the air freezes out by night, then during the day the ice melts. As the day progresses, the heat of the Sun causes this liquid water to evaporate back into the air.
It has already been established from Viking photographs that a thin frost does form overnight on certain areas of the martian surface. Unlike many scientists, the Levins believe that this frosty layer does not instantly revert back into water vapor when the Sun rises. They suggest that, in the early hours of the martian morning, the atmosphere more than one meter above the martian surface remains too cold to hold water vapor. So the moisture stays on the ground.
Data from the Mars Pathfinder support this theory, as the Pathfinder temperature readings noted that temperatures one meter above the surface were often dozens of degrees colder than the temperatures closer to the ground.
This layer of cold air, say the Levins, provides a form of insulation, trapping the water moisture below. Since the atmosphere is too cold to hold the water as vapor and the ground is warm enough to melt the ice, the water melts into a liquid. This liquid water, the Levins believe, remains on the surface until the temperature of the atmosphere rises enough to allow the water to evaporate. In this way, they argue, the martian soil becomes briefly saturated with liquid water every day.
"The meteorological data fully confirm the presence of liquid water in the topsoil each morning," says Gilbert Levin. "The black-and-white as well as the color images show slick areas that may well be moist patches."
Such a scenario is certainly possible, admits Christopher McKay. McKay is a planetary scientist at NASA Ames Research Center in Mountain View, CA, and a member of the NASA Astrobiology Institute.
"At the surface the frost may melt to form a very short-lived layer of liquid," says McKay. "The experiments show that this is the case." But, he cautions, "how long it persists is not yet accurately determined.
The Phoenix lander exposed ice as it landed, watched chunks of ice disappear, detected snow falling, and even saw drops of liquid water.
Recent images have also detected yearly changes on some slopes that may have been caused by liquid water. Although Mars is very cold at present, water could exist as a liquid if it contains salts. Salt is expected to be on the Martian surface.
Perchlorate (ClO4), a strong oxidizer, was confirmed to be in the soil. The chemical when mixed with water can greatly lower freezing points, in a manner similar to how salt is applied to roads to melt ice. Perchlorate may be allowing small amounts of liquid water to form on Mars today.
On July 31, 2008, NASA announced that Phoenix confirmed the presence of water ice on Mars. During the initial heating cycle of a new sample, the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer's (TEGA) mass spectrometer detected water vapor when the sample temperature reached 0 °C. Liquid water cannot exist on the surface of Mars with its present low atmospheric pressure, except at the lowest elevations for short periods.
Originally posted by Meldionne1
I'm. Ot seeing the water..where is the water? ...the big slate rocks in the middle look like a big fossil to me, or flat fish rib bones...just saying you can see what anyone wants to see...
Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by qmantoo
There is water on Mars.
It's just not in liquid form.
I can't see what you're talking about in the pictures either, can you circle it or something?
Originally posted by Unity_99
Won't even address each comment individually. There is no, maybe it's sand, maybe water. Its 100% definitely water as all pictures on earth like that are, and our eyes work.
This thread has a NASA picture of standing water, a big puddle, so why doesn't it have a 1000 flags and stars?
I'll monitoring this one.
Because if there is barely an ordinary citizen on ATS that might make sense, however, otherwise, there would be no free will left on this planet and I'll be starting SOS, all day long and each night for a massive intervention from on high, if thats the case, and I suggest everyone join in. Without free will, any semblance of school is gone.
edit on 18-12-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)