Thanks to All the Brits...

reminds me of the old testament story where the enemy men were given circumsions and killed the next day because they could no longer defend themselves appropriately

not that i'm assuming jews are trying to kill white people everywhere (since many jews are also white), just that it seems to parallel the idea. the big question is, who is the enemy and who is the circumsizer. . .

i'm not an enemy of anybody, but i do get rather irate when someone informs me that i'm too stupid to live due to my faith or skin color, that i should accept the guilt labels for things i've never done due to my skin color or faith, or that i'm so inherently evil, due to the color of my skin or faith, that it would be doing the planet a service to get rid of me. that kinda thing does bother me greatly and i have no problem mentioning that it does.

Anyone who says ban the gun is incredibly stupid. It's the only defence you have against a tiranical government understand that already sheeple. I'm not American but I just understand why you believe in the second amendment so much. Your forefathers knew more about the world then the average man nowadays. Also I believe it is a conspiracy all the shootings lately as gun ownership is the biggest threat to the NWO. And banning guns wouldn't solve #..
I'm gone

The amount of massacres that occur in the US is disgraceful. You should really question the reasons for them and try to solve the problem.
I think the problem is this: The American way of life has lead to mentally ill people being able to get easy access to guns. This is a recipe for disaster.
In the UK we have the NHS (National Health Service) which is a wonderful institution that enables free health care for all. (Although it is being under-minded and secretly privatised by the vile conservative coalition).
Recently, that lead a decline in mental health care, which lead to more nutters roaming the streets. Violent crime and knife killings jumped hugely. If those people had access to guns here would have been more deaths.

Its as simple as that.
You have the right to defend yourself. But you also have the right not to be shot by a nutter with an assault rifle.

From our Founding Father's themselves:

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
-Patrick Henry

[W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually. .
-George Mason

The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, ... or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press.
-Thomas Jefferson

[A]rms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.
-Thomas Paine
And from other notable individuals:

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.
-Noah Webster

The militia, who are in fact the effective part of the people at large, will render many troops quite unnecessary. They will form a powerful check upon the regular troops, and will generally be sufficient to over-awe them.
-Tench Coxe

Last but not least, I must say this concerning the great controversy over rifles and shotguns. The only thing that I’ve ever said is that in areas where the government has proven itself either unwilling or unable to defend the lives and the property of Negroes, it’s time for Negroes to defend themselves. Article number two of the constitutional amendments provides you and me the right to own a rifle or a shotgun. It is constitutionally legal to own a shotgun or a rifle.
-Malcolm X

A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms...To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always posses arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle.
-Melancton Smith

Need I go on?

What a way to go Americans, call out your most useful allies and insult them because they do not agree with part of your culture. And here was me convinced that we should support our Atlantic friends for most of my life. Thanks for pointing out what ignorant, arrogant and unimaginably selfish creatures you really are. I can't wait for space travel to happen, I can't wait to get as far away from the US nuts as possible.

reply to post by michael1983l


I wouldn't read too much into it...

Everyone's emotions are high, and emotion is the enemy of reason.

I think the OP is frustrated because it seems as if our friends from across the pond are the most vocal about us turning in our firearms.

Britain, at least from my understanding, is one of the most surveilled places on earth.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Is it a far stretch of the imagination to conclude that this technology could be used against the British people, should a tyrant rise to power there?

My question is, with what does the average citizen in the UK, have at his or her disposal to forcibly resist absolute and total tyranny? Yours is a more urban environment than in the States. The Brits have nowhere to run, nor hide, and the "Great Eye" is ever watchful.

; )

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

The biggest mass murders in history were perpetrated by authoritarian governments against an unarmed populace; and because of that, I would rather live with the risks and sacrifices of liberty, than the risks and sacrifices of tyranny.

I believe you guys over there are entitled to your opinions, most certainly, but don't be surprised when it rubs people the wrong way. We have enough people over here who can't see past the opportunistic political process at work as we speak, let alone to have our best international friends clamoring for us to to roll over to the jackboot of the state.

A lot of people in the U.S. are blissfully ignorant on the nature of the second amendment. Hell, most adults here haven't the capability to even name the articles in the Bill of Rights, let alone profess any type of understanding of the intent.

And to the folks in the US, cut the Brits some slack. Quit holding a 200+ year grudge. Unless you've been personally screwed over by a Brit, I don't think you have any grounds to paint them with a broad brush.

Originally posted by AllenBishop
reply to post by michael1983l

 

Britain, at least from my understanding, is one of the most surveilled places on earth.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Is it a far stretch of the imagination to conclude that this technology could be used against the British people, should a tyrant rise to power there?

My question is, with what does the average citizen in the UK, have at his or her disposal to forcibly resist absolute and total tyranny? Yours is a more urban environment than in the States. The Brits have nowhere to run, nor hide, and the "Great Eye" is ever watchful.

Hi,

I'm in the UK, England and with the exception of outside the doors of local supermarkets (for obvious reasons) I can't think of any other CCTV pointing at houses or pavements (sidewalk) anywhere in the town I live. Notice I specifically said pavements as there are speed cameras on some roads.

'Forcibly resist absolute and total tyranny'? Not expecting it anytime soon. Some posters may have a different opinion of what that means to me, but I don't see any evidence that it's something to worry about, and with your use of the word 'absolute', it implies that a gun would be as much use as a peashooter.

I think, as many have said on here, this is a cultural thing. No one ever took my guns away as I've never had them and never felt a need to own them. Having said that, I don't have the pressure of a multi billion dollar industry trying to tell me how much I need them and lobbying our government to do the same. We're just different in this respect, that's all.

Number of Murders, United States, 2010: 12,996

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2010: 8,775

Number of Murders, Britain, 2011*: 638
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,095 US murders)

Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2011*: 58
(equivalent to 290 US murders)

Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain, 2011*: 2 (equivalent to 10 US murders).

Give up your guns you silly Yanks,

And stop bashing the Brits for advising common sense

reply to post by Unrealised



I passed a criminal background check,can you say the same?

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by tempesillest

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Unrealised

 

Criminals get them illegally....is that so hard to understand?

People that go on rampages don't.

well why would they need to get them illegaly?

They don't, they already got them legally, or stole them from someone that got them legally and go on an impulse massacre. That's my point.

doesn't stealing them make them illegal???? now don't hurt yourself

Are drugs illegal in the UK?

Are drugs illegal in the UK?

reply to post by hawkiye
They are just jealous, because they were so stupid to give their guns up.
A lot of the brits agree with how stupid they were and said if they had it to do over again they would not give up their guns, sorry to late.

In some of the Videos you could see the tears in their eyes while giving up their guns. Not the Fake tears Obama had.

reply to post by crezo
Hello friend, to answer you question/statment:"I do think automatic weapons should be much more heavily monitored though, as these are the ones that always do the most severe damage."

There are NO fully automatic weapons for sale to the general public anywhere in the USA. This is a very common misconseption even here in the states. The only way one can purchase a fully automatic weapon is to apply for what is called a "Tax Stamp" for a fee of $200.00 to the goverment. Then and only then after much background and security checks is it allowed. Even then it comes with many strings attacked. E.G. 1.) This weapon must remain in a safe at all times locked-up until you are going to use it. 2.) You give up your right of a legal search of your home. In other words goverment personnel can come to your home anytime to check on the storage, status and proof you still have the weapon without a warrent from the court system. 3.) Failure to do any of the above is a felony crime and comes with stiff jail time and loss of all rights to own a firearm of any kind.

"Assalt Rifles" are copies of their miltary versions which only fire in semi-automatic mode only. Most of these so called "experts" on here talking about how deadly they are don't have a clue! I don't know if the data still holds true but at one time .22 caliber rifles killed more people in the U.S. than anything else. These are used for plinking and hunting small game. It is a rim fire cartridge that can NOT be reloaded. Most of these rifles at are being disscussed are either .223 Cal. or .308 Cal The NATO version of the exact same round is 5.56 and 7.62 it is just the diameter of the round in English and metric units; they are the same round. Bothe rounds are in Hunting Rifles, Military Rifles, and Assalt Rifles. The only advantage of and assalt rifle is the capacity of the magazine that it can take up to 40 rounds in some; there are even 75 round and 100 round drums for most. They just look scary to the "Non gun person" Most hunting rounds like 30.06 .270 and .300 mags have 2 to 5 times the power of the rifles in debate here. The abilty to shoots many rounds before reloading is the only difference.

Hope this helps, take care and thanks for being one of the only logical posters on this thread.

reply to post by michael1983l
Friend, emotions are high on this subject. You have not been wrong in your belief of the support of the US or vice versa. It is really easy to get caught up in this debate and then the name calling starts. Gun are simply part of our culture and they are not part of yours. It is a lose lose debate because even here we as a nation are split down the middle on this subject.

As a gun owner, hunter, and sporting clays shooter my weapons are dear to me and I would not just hand them over because of public opinion. I have never harmed anyone with any of them but would not hesitate to protect my family or property for a second. As an ex miltary sniper I would engage at yardage that the weapons that are in question would be useless. However, in a mob situation surrounding my house they would be my weapon of choice. They are not the best for home defense either; they will travel thru drywall and studs very easy and may harm a loved one. A good old 12 gauge shotgun is best for that option.

Not evryone who owns a gun here is a nut case. Just the reverse actually of the people I know; they are some of the most resposible and caring people in my circle of friends. This kid was sick and hell bent on killing. If a man is willing to swap his life for another there is not much anyone can do to stop him unless you are armed.

Take care and don't let the emotions of this subject get to you; I am sure on a different topic you would find much in common.

reply to post by hawkiye


Actually it has been proven from many different sources that places with strict gun laws/bans have more violent crimes than places without. Basically it says to bad people, "Here you go, you can go shoot people, and no one will be able to stop you". Banning guns doesn't solve anything. Evil people will get a gun no matter what if they want to. The solution is to let people defend themselves against people trying to shoot up theaters/schools as much as they can. There will always be bad people out there.

Originally posted by Unrealised

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Unrealised

 

Criminals get them illegally....is that so hard to understand?

If the world worked slowly towards getting rid of weapons, eventually we'd live in a world free of violence.


That's easy to understand.

If the world worked slowly towards getting rid of fat people, libtards, and really stupid ignorant people as yourself, eventually we'd live in a world.


That's easy to understand.

Excuse me sir, I do not intend to be rude but, a very good portion of our armed and private citizens defeated the British in the revolution. Drugs are illegal, people still get them, cars are considered deadly weapons, fists are considered deadly weapons if you take martial arts. The thing is sir, we have different people and different crimes, we have a different way of living, thus your rules wont fit us and our rules wont fit you guys. If we ban assault weapons, rifles and shotguns will be used, the gun did not pull the trigger. But as I have said, our lifestlye is very different. But I do bet you would want a gun in a gun fight.

NRA all the way! That would be my stance.
DO NOT give up your rite to bear arms.
I live in the UK and shoot.we get by but the options are limited.
as long as i have been around guns i have had the rule's instilled on me from day one
never to point a loaded or empty weapon at any human being. that has always been the UK way.
as well as all the other basic "Gun Safe" procedures,if you shoot you know these and they are universal.
we shoot game birds, rabbits etc,trap/skeet and IF you can get the firearms licence .22 live or air rifle's
or pistols, Co2 or spring or pre charged. just under 12 foot pound or firearms licence come's into force.

A few larger calibre rifles for club use or deer hunting but the firearms licence is hassle,you don't just apply
and that's it!no, its a lot of background checks.got a criminal record for nothing to do with guns or violence
and you will not get one it is that plain cut.

Also cross bows or bows. that is about it.A few clubs and a healthy air rifle scene.
A small amount of "black powder" handguns and longarms.
We who do shoot defend our rite to shoot as best we can.

The above is just MY basic summary of UK legal Gun Culture and does not represent what I own or shoot.