A Closer Look at Gun Laws

Since the Sandy Hook massacre the forums have exploded with the debate on Gun Control in the US and in other parts of the world. Generally I have noticed foreigners from the UK, Canada, and Australia attacking the US policies on gun control. Blaming our lack of gun control for the atrocity. Likewise my fellow countrymen have fought back arguing that society is more to blame and what not. So in this thread I am going to look closer at Gun laws across the world, and see if Gun Control really is the answer.

First off a comparison of Guns Per Capita with Gun Violence to the rest of the world:

Washingt on Post Article

I couldn't post the images in my thread but in the graphs you will find that the US is the highest in Guns per Capita in the world. Which is no surprise really. You will also find that the US is not the highest in Gun Violence but is relatively average. In fact South Africa beats the US in this category, a place I thought was relatively civilized. And of course Mexico beats the US.

People from Europe, especially the UK have been criticizing our gun laws, saying they are not strict enough and that's what causes this problem in the US. Well I have news for our friends in Europe, our Gun laws vary by state and Connecticut along with most of the East Coast is the strictest.

Conneticuit Gun Laws

"In general, the laws here are pretty strict, and they're working," said Bob Crook, executive director of the Coalition of Connecticut Sportsmen. "But I don't know of any law that would prevent someone like at Columbine or at Aurora or here in Connecticut from committing these offenses which are clearly psychologically based." Read more: Connecticut gun laws among the toughest in the U.S. - The Denver Post www.denverpost.com... Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: www.denverpost.com...

In fact in Connecticut you must have a permit to own a handgun not much unlike gun laws in parts of Europe including the UK. Also lets not forget that Europe is not without it's atrocities as well.

When I was looking at the UK gun laws I found several things that interested me. Number one being that the reason you have strict gun laws is due to 2 massacres in the late 80s and mid 90's. The most horrific being the Dublane Massacre in 1996, where a 43 y.o. man killed a teacher and 16 kids who were mostly kindergarten aged. Also I found another one where a 52 yo man killed 12 people in 2010. The natural response to these massacres have been gun laws.

UK Gun Laws

Also lets not forget the Norway Massacre in 2011. Norway is supposed to be one of the least violent and best places to live in the world. They also fairly strict on their Gun laws, but not as much as the UK.

Finally my last bit of research regards Switzerland. Switzerland's guns per capita is the highest in Europe, and every male between 18-30 has to do 3 months military training. Switzerland's gun violence rate is extremely low as well. This country proves that Gun Control isn't always the answer, but education and training are also important.

Although I must point out that the US is much larger than any country in Europe. We have 300 Million citizens and a land mass that touches two oceans.

My point with this thread is that Gun Control sometimes works but shouldn't be the answer we flock too after these crimes. I must apologize that I kind of picked on the UK but what I wanted to prove is that these things happen everywhere, regardless of your laws. Massacre's will happen, if someone can't do it with a gun they will do it with fire, bows, knives, their hands. Is the US perfect? No. Can we improve gun regulation? Sure, especially to those with mental health problems.

I also believe that Europeans often view America as gun totting war mongers. The truth is far from it. You never see a person walking around town with a gun, if you do they are probably trying to sell it to a pawn shop. Most people I know don't even own guns. I own a few, but mine are all rifles that I used to use for shooting competitions.

Basically the truth is that if people want to inflict harm on others, they will find a way. Don't disarm the good people just because a few nuts can't control themselves.

reply to post by asmall89


Very well written!
I'm glad you made this thread. I've been arguing pro-gun for the last two days and you've made some very valid points that cannot be denied.

This is definitely one of the smartest threads created on Gun Control issues I have seen so far since the tragedy. Our gun control laws work in my opinion, though personally I don't see a need for assault weapons but that is my own personal belief, that I'm perfectly willing to keep to myself for now.

I advocate both the Second Amendment and Gun Control, I do believe that the world we live in is different than at the time of the adoption of the Second Amendment and that if we didn't have some Gun Control there would be a higher rate of what is now a rare tragedy. People intent on doing harm will always find a way to do so and much like the war on drugs, to ban guns would create a much larger problem, if people want them they will get them. Our laws, I believe do prevent a much larger percentage of people who shouldn't have guns from having them as well as enabling those responsible enough to own them, the freedom to do so.

reply to post by asmall89

Heya OP. I made a thread based around this link I discovered awhile back but it fits very well into your thread as well. I am sure you will find it very interesting to read if you haven't already seen it for research on this thread.

Gun Laws Across the World at a Glance

It gives each nation, a numerical index score for gun restriction (and each state breaks down separately in the U.S. section) as well as a one liner about the nature of the law for that nation or state. It looks to cover about all of them and some really surprised me for the high or low score they got compared to what I'd have thought.

Guns aren't nearly as universally banned as media had left me to believe. I've sure never heard anything about the above list's details before finding it. Anyway, hope it helps a bit.

S&F . Some very good points. An interesting fact is that in Australia after the new laws were introduced, "home invasions" rose dramatically.... I guess the crims weren't too worried about getting shot breaking in...

Originally posted by Flatcoat
S&F . Some very good points. An interesting fact is that in Australia after the new laws were introduced, "home invasions" rose dramatically....

Having debunked this "fact" in two other threads as single year figures from decades ago, and with not a single pro-gun person coming back to defend that "fact" as being even remotely true to the situation today... would you yourself care to defend that "fact" and back it up with references?

Sorry but at this point we have to have the gun law conversation. Your post itself points out some of those reasons. We have went through a year where random acts of mass murder have occurred with a numbing frequency. We have went from a couple months or even years in between to a year where it is frighteningly above average. Obviously what we are currently allowing is not working out so well.

Maybe it is just some brain dead, emotionally stunted people trying to leave their mark on the world before the 21st. Maybe it is just a culture problem. Who can really say what is going through a madman's mind to lead them to do these horrific things? Are tighter gun restrictions the only alternative? No and they shouldn't be. But on the other side of this what legitimate reason does anyone need to have a firearm in a school, hospital, government buildings and bars? What legitimate reason beyond convenience does anyone need a high capacity clip for? What possible reason do you need to have an assault rifle for other than to kill someone? There are places for compromise that reasonable people can reach. And we have to reach them because people should not be afraid to go to church, people should not think twice about going to movies and children should not be afraid of getting gunned down in school.

It is perfectly clear tighter gun laws will not stop these things from happen completely, it is a delusion of the highest order to think it would. But what we can do is reduce the frequency and magnitude of such incidents while allowing the hobbyist and sportsman to pursue their interests.

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by Flatcoat
S&F . Some very good points. An interesting fact is that in Australia after the new laws were introduced, "home invasions" rose dramatically....

Having debunked this "fact" in two other threads as single year figures from decades ago, and with not a single pro-gun person coming back to defend that "fact" as being even remotely true to the situation today... would you yourself care to defend that "fact" and back it up with references?

Here's a good place to start Link
This is interesting as well

Originally posted by Flatcoat
Here's a good place to start Link

1. Nothing at all about "home invasions" at that link to support your assertion.
2. Any spike in the crime data is momentary.
3. The increases in crime were increasing in the time PRIOR to the gun buyback
4. Such temporary increases were many many years ago and fails to point towards the call I made for "being even remotely true to the situation today.."
5. The gun crime rate situation today is the safest Australia has ever been in the whole timeline, and this after even more gun control laws have been introduced.

Your assertion that gun control leads to more crime is not supported by the facts at that webpage.


Edit - the second link you provided also shows trend increases prior to the 1996 buyback, thus showing no link between gun buyback and increased home invasions, and all the other points I made above still stand.

And personally, I find it rather disingenuous of the SSAA to only provide a very selective 3 years worth of data from many years ago, which stops right at the point just before the figures start dropping again. Its almost like they wanted to mislead their readers.

reply to post by KeliOnyx


I'm not saying that no gun control is the way to go. What I'm saying is that if you have gun control it will not change much. I do not want to live in a country where you have to renew a permit every 5 years to keep a weapon in my basement that I hardly ever touch. That is the reality of the UK. We should not go down that route. Restrictions in Connecticut were already good! What else could you ask for?

Here's another Massacre at a school in Germany that did not involve guns. Would tighter gun restrictions stop this too?

Cologne School Massacre

reply to post by alfa1


Here's another video that may interest you.

I live in a semi rural area. Definitely secluded. I do own a small few weapons.

I've always been an individual rights minded person but what really is behind that idea for me is that the police are not legally bound to protect you. Ultimately that responsibility belongs to me and my family and having a few weapons for that purpose gives me security in my own home. It is just as simple as that.

So until I can get some sort of guarantee I will stick to whatever means I have to give me that safe feeling if TSHTF, be it natural disaster or some desperate individual(s).

I don't even hunt much anymore since I have gotten older but those weapons will remain in my guardianship as long as it is legal to do so.