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Every possible reason for gun ownership addressed and countered

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posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Care to point out the page your original post and my reply are on? Im not going through 20 pages of posts to find it.

Ive addressed every valid point in every post upto page 10 so far, Im sure ul find all your arguments refuted on any page of this thread as most of the arguments you guys have are pretty much the same
edit on 21/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 03:24 AM
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reply to post by MegaMind
 





Maybe not, but it would certainly make it easier in the future would it not?


Is having guns everywhere "in case" something happens worth these guns definately getting into the wrong hands and being used on an innocent public?




I would rather die fighting for my freedom ... even if there was no chance. Would you? Or are you too cowardly to fight your own enslavement? My guess is your answer would depend on how bad the conditions of your enslavement were ... Some things are worth dying for ... I say we keep our guns and make them work for it ...


Maybe not? I dont know but Im glad my country doesnt have guns and gun deaths as common place based on the tiny tiny possibility that I may need it to fight the government.
Cowardly has nothing to do with it and I really dont know how you guys can call people without guns cowardly or fearful. Maybe its a product of my environment but I walk around unarmed at all hours of the day and feel perfectly safe, I dont fear anything (maybe spiders)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 03:26 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 





So then what's your goal? It cant be to safety or to save lives otherwise your attentions would be focused where the greatest difference can be made. Is it just to go after a thing? Intent has nothing to do with body count. Is this "war on guns" really just a "war on design"?


My goal is hopefully to make gun owners really look at whether guns everywhere is worth the cost you guys are currently paying.

Are you really suggesting we ban cars etc etc or are you just being facetious?



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 03:29 AM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


As I said you deflected with your answers never addressing the issues. So why exactly should I go back through 20 pages. My post was in the first 5 pages as far as my second post I think page 5.

Just answer me this real quick what do our say to the family’s that live near the border of Mexico. Do you really think that taking away there means of self-defense is going to help them? In there case they should be given weapons by our government. True assault rifles IMO.

You live in a sheltered society there is no way for you to understand our culture or problems. Like I said if you ever visited this country and experienced it you would change your tune pretty fast.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 03:39 AM
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reply to post by MegaMind
 





We used to live out in the country. We had someone coming around our home, peeking in on my girlfriend when she was home alone. I called the cops early one morning when this person came around. Twenty minutes later the police arrived and this person was long gone. The sheriff's deputy asked if I had a gun. At the time I did not. He said "Get one!"


My 84 year old Great grand father quite a few years ago had someone break into his house, he heard it grabbed his lamped and screamed "who the hells there!!!" the intruder crapped themselves and jumped out a 2 story window to get away. He did fine without a gun




You know, I know there is no guarantee that I would successfully defend myself and family against some creepy intruder but does that mean I shouldn't try? At least the gun increases my odds significantly.


True, but once again guns everywhere also increases the risk psychos can get them.




Should a person or people who is being assaulted just give up? The lone wacko on a killing spree does a lot of damage to the lives of a lot of people. The wacko that seizes control of a nation does a lot of damage to millions of lives.


I never said anyone should give up but when it comes to fighting governments there are better ways than with guns.

A question, please answer in as few words as possible.

Do you feel guns being everywhere in anticipation for the "possibility they may be needed is worth the trade off for the "certainty" that wackos can easily access them?



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by MessOnTheFED!
 


Hey sweet cheeks,



other than the fact that you claim to be a "history student", but have learned absolutely nothing from history.


As far as Im concerned certain things in history to not apply to today, you have a military to defend you against foreign invasion now, you didnt when the constitution was written



The saying, 'the meek shall inherit the earth' applies directly to you, because you are scared and to be honest thats perfectly ok. My problem is when you take your meekness and try to push it on other people


Im not meek or fearful of anything, all reasons for wanting to own a gun are based on a fear of this or a fear of that, Id say the Americans who dont have weapons are actually the brave ones, despite the fact most of you are armed they walk around sticking to their convictions that guns arent the way forward.




s for the OP.. More opinion, which I think I have more than explained to you, that doesn't matter in the face of people who are willing to take a stand for something they believe in.


After reading all the replies on this and many other threads Ive come to the conclusion that pretty much everything is opinion, your side has its stats, my side has its. Your side has personal stories and circumstantial evidence so does mine.
The only thing that isnt in question is that America has a serious issue with psychos using guns on an innocent public, what do you suggest?

Please dont say more guns LOL



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 03:55 AM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


My family suffered a home invasion, twice.

The first time my cousin who was staying with us got away before they subdued her, and they fled since the cops would have been there in a few minutes.

The second time, one of the attacker’s guns malfunctioned when my dad went berserk on them and my sister managed to escape and go to the same neighbor’s house. They again fled.

Both times, they held my family at gun point in execution positions and were going to rob rape and kill everyone.

SOOOO

F your logic of scared criminals theory. In the US things are different, especially so in NY,. I dont know about the rest of the country but WE NEED OUR GUNS.

edit on 21-12-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by Email

Originally posted by spock51


The Constitution of the US is not perfect, but I am not aware of one better and damn few its equal.


Try the English Bill of Rights, and the Magna Carta, both of which were copied by your degenerate nation to form your baseless, worthless little "constitution".

Both are precursors to the US Constitution and, as you so eloquently pointed out, served as a guide for James Madison, et al, to pen our present document. They are magnificent achievements, well thought out by a people who had faced oppression and tyranny and, finally, said, "Enough!"
Thank you for reminding me about them.
Whilst you sit and froth and stew, desperately seeking more disparaging adjectives to toss my way, I will bow my head and thank those two documents and the good and honorable people who wrote them with their love of liberty, their sacred honor and their blood. .



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


My family suffered a home invasion, twice.

The first time my cousin who was staying with us got away before they subdued her, and they fled since the cops would have been there in a few minutes.

The second time, one of the attacker’s guns malfunctioned when my dad went berserk on them and my sister managed to escape and go to the same neighbor’s house. They again fled.

Both times, they held my family at gun point in execution positions and were going to rob rape and kill everyone.

SOOOO

F your logic of scared criminals theory. In the US things are different, especially so in NY,. I dont know about the rest of the country but WE NEED OUR GUNS.

edit on 21-12-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)


And at no point in that comment did you justify how a weapon was useful to you. Mind you, I'd want a gun if I lived in New York, to put myself out of the misery.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Do you feel guns being everywhere in anticipation for the "possibility they may be needed is worth the trade off for the "certainty" that wackos can easily access them?


Absolutely. There are no guarantees. Wackos exists, always have. Better that we can defend ourselves from them than act like fools pretending we can stop every horrible act known to man.

Grow up live in the real world and quit pretending your little dream utopia is reality.

People can be evil deal with it! Making sure good people can't defend themselves will solve nothing.

Also I noticed you ignored my personal story. How convenient. I have a question also. Should the thousands of people every year that find themselves in a home invasion or threatening situation not have the means to defend themselves because occasionally some lone wacko goes out and murders 20 or 30 people?

Bee sting deaths are more common - 53 deaths per year on average.

You are more likely to be killed by lightening than by a mass murderer - 62 deaths annually

Do you drive? Maybe you shouldn't. 32,000+ people died in 2011 while doing that.

And where is your outrage for the children that are murdered at the hands of governments waging war using depleted uranium, etc?

Maybe your government shouldn't have guns - are you going to campaign for that?

The moment there is the real promise that all governments, people etc give up all aggression everywhere forever and that all the people all over the world become little angels to one another then I too will give up my guns. OK? Until then I have the right to defend myself from other people's aggression.

I think you are naive ...
edit on 21-12-2012 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 06:28 AM
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All U.S. citizens are part of the militia. The meaning behind that is, we are our own protectors, and we have a right to protect our freedom by any means.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by Email
 


no I didn’t, but all my dad kept thinking was that he wished he hadn’t listened to my mother and kept wearing his 38 special when he came home from work....He didn’t want to watch his family executed after being subjugated to god knows what...

But hey, stay where you are, NY, or the US for that matter doesnt need you. Stop your people (where ever you are from) from immigrating to my home if you are not going to respect our customs or our people.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Wow this thread is still going
. All the points made by the OP have been pretty much destroyed so why are people still debating. The arguments the OP made were weak and full of holes. The OP wouldn’t directly address many peoples responses instead the OP would deflect from the topic. I didn’t expect much from someone who lives in a sheltered society but I thought he/she would have better debating skills than what I have seen. Maybe the OP will take an opportunity at some point in his/her life to see America firsthand at that point he/she will realize just how foolish the OP is with what he/she wrote.


Im upto page 10 of the thread and have addressed every single point made, not 1 argument has been destroyed as you say, in fact quite the opposite.
It basically comes down to are more guns the answer to Americas gun problem...

Short answer NO, anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

So what exactly would seeing the US first hand make me realise? that your society is so messed up that yes you need a gun to get by? that its so good guns are unecessary? seriously wht would being in the US make me see?


You didn't address either of my posts. The first of which had hard and undeniable facts that you couldn't combat. You just dismissed it.



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


More evaluations for mental problems. And maybe if someone is mental in your home you have to keep your guns locked away in such a way that noone can access them but you.

I think they are opening a whole can of worms thats best left unopened. Look at the gun racks at any Wal-Mart in Smalltown, USA. The shelves are empty. The line is being drawn in the sand. Wake up.

MOTF!

Edit: LOL I once had a fish named "sweet cheeks" or, rather my daughter did. I thought that was pretty funny.
edit on 21-12-2012 by MessOnTheFED! because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by ZiggyMojo
 





You didn't address either of my posts. The first of which had hard and undeniable facts that you couldn't combat. You just dismissed it.


Your first post in this thread is on page 17, Im sure you read my above comment that said I was upto page 10 and had addressed EVERY SINGLE POST AND POINT that was put to me.
Im now upto page 11.

What is it with you people??

Honestly some of you sound like little children screaming for a bit of attention.

The fact that someone starred you just shows that your side will star anything made by one of its own no matter how crap the post
edit on 21/12/2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 





As I said you deflected with your answers never addressing the issues. So why exactly should I go back through 20 pages. My post was in the first 5 pages as far as my second post I think page 5.


No posts from you in the first 6 pages, either link them for me, repeat them here or wait for me to get to you.

Ive wasted enough time on you, if you genuinely want me to address your points linking them shouldnt be hard.
The fact you lied about your posts being in the first few pages tells me your just trying to make it look like Im cherry picking who to respond to.

Once again EVERY SINGLE POST HAS BEEN RESPONDED TO IN THE ORDER IT CAME!!!!!!
With a couple of exceptions due to childish tantrum throwing
"WHEN S IT MY TURN WHEN IT MY TURN"

Seriously are you like 6 years old?



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by MessOnTheFED!
 





More evaluations for mental problems. And maybe if someone is mental in your home you have to keep your guns locked away in such a way that noone can access them but you.


OK so why only for people living with mentally ill people? Why not everyone?

People would get to keep their beloved guns and alot of these tragedies could be averted.
Why isnt this being done already even before all these shootings?

Would you personally have a problem with a law that said you need to keep your guns locked up and secure?




Edit: LOL I once had a fish named "sweet cheeks" or, rather my daughter did. I thought that was pretty funny.


LOL then from now on, to me you shall be known as Sweet Cheeks



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Your first post was on page 8
Pretty sure I responded to this, It wasnt a rude post and to be honest it doesnt really refute what I said it just lists your justifications for ownership. Ill respond now just in case I did miss it (If I did it was merely oversight and not done on purpose)



I can only guess that you do not have problems with wild dogs where you live. Even though most of America has been tamed there still are areas where carrying a firearm is the only way to insure your safety when I lived in Tennessee I worried about more than just dogs. When I was growing up we kept rifles on gun racks in our trucks and there was never a problem maybe that deterred shootings at schools I can only guess.


As I said I have no issues with guns if you live in a rural area and genuinely use them for hunting or to kill pests and no I dont have a problem with wild dogs where I live, but I would hazard a guess neither do the vast majority of gun owners in the US.
When you were growing up Im guessing things were a bit different, I doubt very much people felt like they needed guns in the same way they do today. Out of curiousity when did you grow up? when were you in school?
(not being rude just curious, feel free to ignore that question)




I have read where people from other countries have stated they have problems with gangs and knives yet they say they would rather face that. I have no fear of gangs because I am armed. I would much rather be able to defend myself with a pistol than a knife especially if I am defending myself against more than one person. I can’t remember the country but it wasn’t that long ago a psycho killed a bunch of kids on an island where guns were not readily available to citizens so there is an instance where anti-gun laws did more harm than good.


I definately responded to this because I remember the quote about the island, check your replies for one from me that addresses all these points already. And an apology would also be nice
But again, are you saying that because of 1 shooting your saying they should arm the whole island?
Your logic is amazing, one shooting so lets get everyone a gun??



Just answer me this real quick what do our say to the family’s that live near the border of Mexico. Do you really think that taking away there means of self-defense is going to help them? In there case they should be given weapons by our government. True assault rifles IMO.


I assume you mean to protect them from Mexicans? No I think you have an army for that. I have no issue and even think its a good idea to have an organised militia to patrol your border if the army, national guard or whatever is stretched to thin. I wish we could organise something similar in Australia in regards to boat people arriving every few weeks



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


If you actually believe that anyone but you is there to keep you safe they should have held you back 'another' grade.
Or not. you are exactly one of the submissive, unquestioning, taxpaying easy to fleece sheep that the establishment is seeking.

Disarming the populace works. Just ask Stalin, Mou setung, Hitler, Idamine, PolPot....

The US citizens have Guns the Us Gov FEMA camps. Do you actually believe that if the citizens give up their guns the US gov 'won't' use the FEMA camps?
edit on 21-12-2012 by VforVendettea because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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As far as the title of this thread, we have CLEARLY seen by follow-up posts that INDEED, "every possible reason for gun ownership" HAS NOT "been addressed or countered". In no way whatsoever.


As a matter of fact, this argument has now been WEAKENED due to this thread. Back to the drawing-board for you, try again. I must honestly nominate this thread as being the WEAKEST 'gun-hate' thread ever to be posted on ATS.

You have to admire folks such as the OP though, because even though he/she has been THOROUGHLY CRUSHED in this thread, he/she still has the WILL to return each time providing more and more ignorance with each post.

If I were an OP of a topic that went so downhill as this, I would have told myself a LONG TIME AGO to "Stick a fork in me, I'm DONE!!!"


So an A+ grade for effort though. But for content to support your OPINION, it will be a FAILING grade indeed.




edit on 21-12-2012 by oper8zhin because: (no reason given)






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