Ancient Israel and the U.S.

I recently watched a program that dealt with the similarities of Old Testament Israel and the U.S. The U.S. has drifted from God since it's formation and morally we are picking up speed in our decline. This is what happened to ancient Israel.

It got me to thinking so I checked out how many kings Israel had from Saul through the DIVIDED KINGDOMS of Israel and Judah. I found out that Israel had 44 kings rule over them. Now David's son Absalom tried to oust his father but the Bible doesn't say King Absalom anywhere in it, so I'm not counting him. It does call Ishbosheth and Adonijah king so they are counted. Of these 44 one was a queen. God then had both Israel and Judah conquered by her enemies.

George W. Bush is the 43rd president of the United States. We are also a nation divided(republicans and democrats) and that was made apparent and solidified in the last election. The U.S. has had a president and first lady similar to Ahab and Jezebel. We also have a woman who is in a position of power right know who has the capability to run for president in 2008 and has a real chance of winning the office. This would match the one queen Israel had. We are only one president away from the same amount as ancient Israel's 44 kings. God removed them after their 44th "kingly" leader. Is He about to deal with the U.S. in the same way.

The Bible tells us that things written in it are for ensamples for us. The word ensamples can include the definition of "imitation" and "pattern."
Ecclesiastes also says there is nothing new under the sun, the things that have happened will happen again.

Your theory only works if Bush is re-elected. Otherwise, the 44th President will be Kerry. Now assuming Bush is re-elected and H. Clinton is elected in 2008, her presidency would end in 2012. 2012 is a year that has some significance to "end of an era theories".

I find it interesting your theory seems to support those other theories in some fashion. Definately one of those things to make a person go "Hmmmm..."

I'm throwing out something to keep an eye on and have in the back of your head.

and what will God do to the US pray tell?

Originally posted by Cearbhall
and what will God do to the US pray tell?

Economically we could have a collapse. Worse things than Sept. 11 could happen. I hope they don't I have to live here too and need a job, but God has been and is being removed from everything in this nation. Now I know for quite a few on ATS this is a great thing. Remmber that if we kick God out and He says OK I'll leave for awhile there is only ourselves to blame.

I'm not the christian I should be and no christian will be this side of eternity but christians do need to keep growing and we are all guilty of not responding to God as we should.

I'm not just singling out the U.S. the world is a a course of removing God. I just don't live in those other countries and see the day to day slide downward. Part of the tribulation period in the Bible is man's wish for God to leave . God says OK build a world without me. The Bible tells us man then almost destroys himself, until God reenters the picture.

Hello dbrandt:
There are a few problems with your theory:-)
There is no such thing as a divided kingdom. Jesus himself said that a kingdom divided against it'self cannot stand, so the assembly which God chose to be His people, ceased to exist with the division and fall of the Davidic kingdom, at the end of Solomon's reign.
Only David and Solomon sat upon the throne of David, and it has been empty for almost 3000 years, since the nation/kingdom of the children of Israel ceased to exist.

Originally posted by provoker
Hello dbrandt:
There are a few problems with your theory:-)
There is no such thing as a divided kingdom. Jesus himself said that a kingdom divided against it'self cannot stand, so the assembly which God chose to be His people, ceased to exist with the division and fall of the Davidic kingdom, at the end of Solomon's reign.
Only David and Solomon sat upon the throne of David, and it has been empty for almost 3000 years, since the nation/kingdom of the children of Israel ceased to exist.

I didn't really start the thread as a theory just to pass along something for people to think about. I disagree that once they divided that was the end.. the Bible stills calls them kingdoms. And when the country divded that proved Jesus statement as the truth. But this is nothing to start an argument over we both have views to be expressed and yours are noted.

A wise man once said �The only constant is change."

The world of America's founding father George Washington is no longer here---yet American is still here.

The world that Samuel Clemens inhabited is no longer in existence, yet America is still here.

Our way of life will not be the same for our grandchildren---they will live in a world we can not even imagine---yet American will still be here.

Will America be a Super Power---not forever---throughout history Super Powers come and they go---the only constant is change.

You can blame the gods, the people, the politicians, and Mother Nature, but the facts remain---things will change---they always have and always will.

Originally posted by dbrandt
I disagree that once they divided that was the end.. the Bible stills calls them kingdoms.

Hello dbrandt:
Yes, they were kingdoms, nations, and peoples, but neither one was "THE" Children of Israel. While the individual children of Israel still existed, the assembly, congregation, body, group, of all the tribes of the children of Israel, has not existed for almost 3000 years.
You may remember that the purpose of the everlasting(old) covenant, was to make Israel a great nation, so she could bless the nations of the earth, by her national example. Once she became divided, and fell, she no longer qualified to fulfill the covenant purpose, but since the covenant is everlasting, then the divided and dispersed children of Israel are in the negative phase of God's conditional promises in the everlasting(old) covenant(Deut. 28).

I started this and when I did I really felt Bush would win reelection but told noone but my kids. Now I just want to emphasize for believers in Christ and those who don't follow Him. The next president will be #44. Even though I believe President Bush was put into office by God the U.S. has still continued it's moral decline through the first 4 years of Bush. I think he has slowed the decline but I also believe the problems of this world and our nation have gone beyond the repair of mankind.

I want to encourage those who will, to pray for our nation individually and corporately. Chronicles 7:14 is very relevant for our nation. We who believe, (including myself) ,in God have failed in this. It is vital now.

[Edited on 4-11-2004 by dbrandt]

[Edited on 4-11-2004 by dbrandt]

I wanted to add a couple of things to this because I still believe that there could be something to ancient Israel and the U.S..

First of all I didn't intend to imply that if a woman would become President that she would handle the job so bad that this would be the reason for some sort of a fall to the U.S.. I simply think that the timing of my noticing this and the number of Kings Israel had is very interesting.

But since I first posted this I find as I watch the news that it appears to me that Hillary Clinton is continuing to work toward a run for the presidency in 2008. Billy Graham recently gave a sense of approval to Bill Clinton and that Hillary Clinton could run the country. Also there has been talk of Condoleeza Rice as a possible presidential candidate, increasing the chances of a woman as president.

Also a new TV show this fall will have as it's theme the first woman president. TV shapes this nation opinions to a great degree and this show, depending on it's popularity, could shape people's views on having a woman president.

I saw Hillary on TV with a speech she gave on Wednesday, I believe of this past week. She sounds an awful lot like someone positioning herself to run for President.

I know you posted this quite some time ago, but since you resurrected the thread...

Originally posted by dbrandt
The U.S. has drifted from God since it's formation and morally we are picking up speed in our decline.

Neither of these is obvious.

Originally posted by dbrandt
This is what happened to ancient Israel.

Neither is that. Even according to the Bible, there is not a time when Israel was considered moral or godly except for extremely brief periods.

Posted Sunday, Aug. 20, 2006
If you ask anyone around Hillary Clinton the question that everyone is asking, the answer comes back in a shot: The freshman Senator from New York is far too busy concentrating on her re-election in November to be giving even a passing thought to 2008. Thank you very much. But politics is ultimately a game of logistics, and the junior Senator is putting the machinery in place for a campaign that looks far grander than a re-election cakewalk in New York. All it will need is for someone to throw the switch. Against virtually nonexistent opposition for her Senate seat, she...

www.time.com...

I would like to keep this on people's minds.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt developed polio after he took office.

King Asa became diseased in his feet.

1 Kings 15:23 As for all the other events of Asa's reign, all his achievements, all he did and the cities he built, are they not written in the book of the annals of the kings of Judah? In his old age, however, his feet became diseased.

I will add others as I find them

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
Your theory only works if Bush is re-elected. Otherwise, the 44th President will be Kerry. Now assuming Bush is re-elected and H. Clinton is elected in 2008, her presidency would end in 2012. 2012 is a year that has some significance to "end of an era theories".

I find it interesting your theory seems to support those other theories in some fashion. Definately one of those things to make a person go "Hmmmm..."

Well now that he has been elected this may work.

More info:
Bill and Hilary, Ahab and Jezebel

www.geocities.com...

I found this also, a synopsis of Ahab's life maybe others can find more similarities

diehlmartin.com...

I would add to this from my own studies that Ahab received a wound.

1 Kings 22:34 And a certain man drew a bow at a venture, and smote the king of Israel between the joints of the harness: wherefore he said unto the driver of his chariot, Turn thine hand, and carry me out of the host; for I am wounded.

Ahab was hit and wounded in a vulnerable spot.

Bill Clinton underwent heart bypass surgery (a vulnerable spot to be wounded).

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
Your theory only works if Bush is re-elected. Otherwise, the 44th President will be Kerry. Now assuming Bush is re-elected and H. Clinton is elected in 2008, her presidency would end in 2012.

Her presidency has the capability of going until 2016. As a side note Jezebel met a bad ending.

2 Chronicles 33:[11] Wherefore the LORD brought upon them the captains of the host of the king of Assyria, which took Manasseh among the thorns, and bound him with fetters, and carried him to Babylon.
[12] And when he was in affliction, he besought the LORD his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers,
[13] And prayed unto him: and he was intreated of him, and heard his supplication, and brought him again to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the LORD he was God.

King Manasseh was king, then removed from power for a period of time, then returned to power.

Grover Cleveland was president for 4 years(1885-1889) then removed from office then 4 years later returned to the presidency(1893-1897).


edit-Also Jezebel and Queen Athaliah, both are used with Hilary Clinton. Athaliah was Jezebel's daughter. Both had a bad ending.


2 Kings 11:[3] And he was with her hid in the house of the LORD six years. And Athaliah did reign over the land.

2 Kings 11:[20] And all the people of the land rejoiced, and the city was in quiet: and they slew Athaliah with the sword beside the king's house.



[edit on 15-11-2006 by dbrandt]