Dunblane School Massacre....ended handgun rights in UK

A few of my thoughts......

American's bash on about how we the Brits allowed the government to take our gun's from us. The reality is this....even before handguns were banned we didn't have a gun problem, we still had one of the world's lowest gun homicide rates. Our gun's weren't "taken" away from us, the ban was a result of a public outcry asking for the ban. Yes call it silly of us and a knee jerk reaction after the Hungerford massacre and then more importantly the Dunblane massacre .....but 16 primary school children and their teacher shot dead in their school gym wasn't just a statistic to us.....we wanted to do all we could to ensure this would never happen again! The loss of those 16 children's lives moved us as a nation beyond anything I have rarely witnessed.Silly us for allowing the death of 16 children shot dead in their classroom to get the better of us emotionally eh?
To say it was all Media led is rather insulting.....personally I did not need any news reports or media manipulation to understand the scale of horror of what happened that day and to feel a desire to at least try to stop it happening again by any means.
We banned handguns......It had the desired effect....there hasn't been another school shooting since.

But the way I see it is the whole gun issue in the US isn't really about laws surrounding them......if laws were just the factor then this wouldn't explain why even before the ban on handguns in the UK we didn't have much of a gun culture and gun crime wasn't much of a problem.
I'm 41 years of age...I didn't know anyone with a gun before the ban and I don't know anyone who owns one of any description now. I have only seen a gun once in my entire life and that was on an armed police officer in London near to the houses of parliament. We don't need gun's here.....we never have, both before and after the ban. But I do understand that America has an established gun culture...something we never have.

So I suppose that was a long waffle to make the point that a ban worked for us as it was what the people wanted ...nobody took anything away from us. It had the desired effect we wanted. It is a different scenario for the US.
I think the time may have come when the American people will have to figure out how they reconcile their gun culture with events that seem to be on the increase....I don't envy them

Guns are a double edged sword. Just about as recently as the Newtown Connecticut school shooting here in the states there was another shooting in Oregon. A guy went into a crowded mall with an AR-15 and started opening fire. He killed 2 people before a guy carrying a concealed weapon drew a bead on the shooter. The shooter saw the citizen aiming at him and was in no position to do anything about it without being shot. The shooter shot himself as a result.

2 people were dead, and it was reported that there were a lot more people nearby. If he was able to continue shooting with the AR-15 he had, he could have easily taken a LOT more lives.

So.. Yeah. Many people very well could have died if it wasn't for the citizen carrying a gun on his person.

At the same time, as many anti-gun folks would say, more guns out there could very well mean more shootings. The death toll would rise with more guns out there, but at the same time, many deaths could be prevented with more guns out there.

Neither side can prove more/less guns will have any effect. Personally, I don't see stricter gun laws having ANY effect at all. Personally, I'd like to see MORE people concealed carrying. I'm not a criminal... but i'll be damned if I wouldn't think twice about going on a rampage if I knew most eligible citizens were carrying.

The police are only minutes away...when seconds matter.

reply to post by sparky31


lmao!!!

man why did you let them make Sharia zones in your nation? what is wrong with the government over there? you're supposed to become British if you move to that nation, not import archaic ways... Child Brides, Mutilations and Sharia Courts... Game Over!

poor France I feel really bad for them, we have an intimate and historical relationship with France...

In my point of view US will never change their gun love culture... Maybe in 50 or 100 years it will change but not now when US is active in a military power trip around the world.

Let's face it... US is pissing off a lot of people around the world, it is not surprise they live on fear because they know the backslash is coming and the hell will break loose there.

reply to post by blackcube


I don't know anyone who's afraid of the rest of the world. The CITIZENS of America alone, without the military, have more guns than 20 of the worlds standing armies COMBINED. If anything Americans are more afraid of each other than the rest of the world. That would quickly change if another country tried to invade. They'd just band together and prevent an invasion... quite easily too, I would imagine.

Originally posted by Qemyst
reply to post by blackcube

 

I don't know anyone who's afraid of the rest of the world. The CITIZENS of America alone, without the military, have more guns than 20 of the worlds standing armies COMBINED. If anything Americans are more afraid of each other than the rest of the world. That would quickly change if another country tried to invade. They'd just band together and prevent an invasion... quite easily too, I would imagine.

There wont be any invasion, who would want such hot potato to deal with, it just headache and nothing more... As you said... the problem is their other countrymen if the "order" feel inside the country.

reply to post by blackcube


Then why bring up the fact that the US is "pissing off a lot of people around the world" and mention that it's no wonder they're afraid? Has nothing to do with the topic.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
man why did you let them make Sharia zones in your nation? what is wrong with the government over there? you're supposed to become British if you move to that nation, not import archaic ways... Child Brides, Mutilations and Sharia Courts... Game Over!

There is Sharia councils, but those councils have no legal powers and they cannot impose any penalties.

Anything that can fall under British law can be used, however, things like honour killings are still murder under British law, and are punished as such.

Basically, if it doesn't break British law, or basic human rights, then I think they can deal with it.

Originally posted by Qemyst
reply to post by blackcube

 

Then why bring up the fact that the US is "pissing off a lot of people around the world" and mention that it's no wonder they're afraid? Has nothing to do with the topic.

Ok
If you can't see the any correlation between of military cult mentality of a superpower nation that impose its wills by force/guns (pretty obvious after 9/11) and the love for guns of their population... I can't do anything about it.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by KingIcarus

 

Thank goodness that the Brits banned guns. Because it goes without saying that guns are the problem, not individuals.

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S..

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed. Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

Why do people keep insisting on quoting the tabloid press who have their own agenda's?

Did you even bother to read what was underneath the " league of shame"

A few very important points
I will start off by saying I am not denying we have any serious problems here
BUT
You can't compare overall violent crime statistics between two countries very effectively.
Each country has it's own classifications on what constitutes a violent crime.

For instance.....in the UK ALL violence and ALL sexual crimes are classified as violent crime.
In the US they have only five categories classified as violent crime and for instance only class a sexual crime where a forced rape as occurred as a violent crime
Overall violent crime figures only show statistics of reported crime which each country PERCEIVES as violent.

So in the instance say of comparing the UK and the US, the UK overall violent crime figures tally incorporates a lot more crimes than the tally count for the US

This isn't a post about defending my country blindly...we have problems....and in some area's of crime we have a shocking record.....but we need to be clear about what we are comparing.

reply to post by woogleuk


the British have a very liberal way of turning the blind eye... Brits are the type of people to see a rape or a mugging taking place in an alley and instead of help they run and call the police.

their cowardice is unsurpassed.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by woogleuk

 

the British have a very liberal way of turning the blind eye... Brits are the type of people to see a rape or a mugging taking place in an alley and instead of help they run and call the police.

their cowardice is unsurpassed.

Is that statement based on real hard facts or experience or your opinion?

reply to post by SisyphusRide


You don't know anything about us Brits then, yes some might run and call the police, but a hell of a lot would not. The sad thing there is though, you can end up with a charge sheet for assault yourself, as I and many others have been unfortunate enough to find out.

Originally posted by Logos23

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by woogleuk

 

the British have a very liberal way of turning the blind eye... Brits are the type of people to see a rape or a mugging taking place in an alley and instead of help they run and call the police.

their cowardice is unsurpassed.

Is that statement based on real hard facts or experience or your opinion?

the British women are directly responsible for what has become of their men... heck British women are tougher than their men in this day an age.

it is from experience and you can add British men (cause I love all women) to the list of things I dislike in this world... Canadian and Homosexuals reside just beneath on the list.

good day

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

You don't know anything about us Brits then, yes some might run and call the police, but a hell of a lot would not. The sad thing there is though, you can end up with a charge sheet for assault yourself, as I and many others have been unfortunate enough to find out.

well that's the difference then... an American, even our imports would gladly take a bullet from the offender. Here we call it heroism, all our men and women possess it. It's a cultural perk...

reply to post by KingIcarus


Oh boy, you gotta be kidding me. To compare the UK to the US is silly because the cultures are completely different and America is huge in comparison. The UKs population isn't even half of Americas but that's besides the point. America is huge and a melting pot, a pot that has A LOT of violent criminals, gangs, and people who commit gun crimes without legal guns. Happens every day in America and banning guns isn't going to stop it. Bloods, Crips, MS 13, Latin Kings, and thousands of other gangs, just gangs, not even counting all of the OTHER criminals in just America alone. They aren't giving up their guns, good luck with the ban though

Instead of blaming guns how about we blame the gun owners. This mother apparently was a doomsday prepper who bought and trained with these weapons for the up coming revelation. Too bad she didn't learn about a gun safe, especially being that her son was CLEARLY mentally unstable.

You can't ban guns in America no matter how hard you try. Fully automatic weapons are banned but you'd be a fool if you'd believe there were no fully autos here in the states. In fact, there's much worse than fully auto's here and there's nothing any law can do to stop it. Nothing.

Banning guns does help take the weapons out of irresponsible people's hands, even the evil ones, but what it will mostly do is take guns out of the hands of good responsible people who actually follow and obey they law. They are the true victims because the Gov't and criminals, well they're one in the same but that's besides the point, won't be giving up their guns no matter what law is created.

The 2nd Amendment exists to protect citizens from danger, and in the minds of our fore fathers that danger is a TYRANNICAL Gov't. You know that one, Britain. The UK has now become the poster boy for Big Bother and America is in tow following that model. The US Gov't would absolutely love to get guns our of Americans hands, especially with tools such as Indefinite Detention, the Patriot Act, etc. Clearly the western Gov'ts are tyrannical today and the last thing I would advise Americans, or anyone, is to give up their guns.

I want to end this post with just 4 words...

Operation Fast And Furious

reply to post by SisyphusRide


Wow, that was a bit uncalled for, I daresay with that attitude British men, Canadians and homosexuals would even bother giving you the time of day.

I actually hope you are trolling, because if that is your real attitude you aren't going to get very far in life.

This topic is about handgun rights in the UK (and several offshoots of gun control), not your bigoted, homophobic 18th century attitude.

We don't need guns in the UK because we do not want guns in the UK, most of us have the courage to find with our fists and not hide behind guns. Guns appall us, simply because of the massacres and bloodshed they can bring with them.

EDIT: For the record, the poster I am replying to stated he hated British men, Canadians and homosexuals, he has obviously edited his post, and I don't want to seem like the jackarse.

reply to post by woogleuk


I'm not a troll I promise, I just like to put my boots in rude know it all's faces...

British, Canadians, Atheists and Homosexuals (birds of a feather) all fit this description, and I learned this via internet experience.

reply to post by SisyphusRide


OK, this is the last time I am going to respond to you, I don't want to go off topic and get penalised, however, I feeel I have the right to stand my ground.....


What on Earth are you on??? I said a lot of us WOULD intervene if we saw someone getting raped or assaulted.

The best part is, it is extremely unlikely they would pull a gun, not impossible, but highly improbable, and if they pull a knife, well, some of us have training to disarm them, those that don't have a better chance than if the offender had a gun, and if there is more than one of you, the odds are in your favour, again though, not if the offender had a gun, but in the UK, it is unlikely (round and round in circles I go, knowing my point will fall upon deaf ears).

To all the gun-ownership proponents that say that guns don't kill people but it is the people that do: Then perhaps we should each be allowed to own a nuclear weapon in our household?

Banning guns will at least make it harder for horrific events like Sandy Hook to occur. It may not solve the problem entirely but at least it will be a lot easier and cheaper to implement than dealing with all the psychological and cultural issues that motivate people to commit murder.

To all the people that claim Sandy Hook was some kind of conspiracy to make a grab at your guns: Do you realize that if you are wrong then you are in essence justifying your ownership of guns at the expense of more innocent lives?

You are so reckless that you would ever take such a risk because you are so dumb for thinking that the Second Amendment will protect you from a force that already knows about the guns you have and how to deal with you in either scenario. The smarter method would be to support the outlawing of guns and go get them from the black market instead.