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UK thoughts on the Feinstein Bill

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posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 06:42 AM
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Firstly may I add my condolences to the People of the US, and express my shock, and horror at the recent tragedy. It has been reported through the UK news today that the Democratic Senator for California intends to introduce a First Day Bill to Ban the sale, transfer, and import of assault weapons, and magazines holding more than ten rounds.

I have seen the many pro/anti gun control threads that have unsurprisingly been posted on this forum recently, and have witnessed the deeply held beliefs on this matter. Obviously criminals generally do not consider weather the weapon or weapons they use are legally held, but what I am wondering is will those US citizens who legally own this type of weapon will relinquish them if Law enforcement, and home stationed US Troops retain theirs?.

As I understand it the intent of the Second Amendment (SA) was to allow the population of The US to protect itself from, and deter the tyrannical ambitions of Federal Rule, so therefore surely if the State holds assault weapons those that consider the SA to be intrinsic to freedom will rail against this bill.

I find myself considering the truly horrific prospect of armed standoffs, and full on armed conflict between state, and citizens, militia's refusing to yield, and bloodshed on a scale not seen in recent years. I hope with all my heart that a way can be found that prevent this worst-case scenario, and I believe that the US as a great nation is mature enough to find a way that does not lead to this nightmare. I will close by saying that at the moment as I have relatives, and friends that reside in your fine country the NRA motto "From Our Cold Dead Hands" causes iced water to run through my veins.

Kind regards.




posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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The Government will not come to anyone's house and ask for the guns.

What they will most likely do is pass legislation that would ban assault rifles, and large magazines from being sold in the future. They don't have to round up anyone, owning an assault rifle will become a felony, If you get caught with one you will face jail time and a fine.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by muse7
The Government will not come to anyone's house and ask for the guns.

What they will most likely do is pass legislation that would ban assault rifles, and large magazines from being sold in the future. They don't have to round up anyone, owning an assault rifle will become a felony, If you get caught with one you will face jail time and a fine.


As I said I live in the UK and therefore you are obviously much better placed to predict what will likely happen. Your reply demonstrates what I said I believe to be true about the people of the US, and are why I believe those such as yourself are the voices of reason that will prevail.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:06 AM
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Folks get that CT, NJ, NY, MA, CA all are under AWB's right?

That's what I'm loving (and incredibly irritated by) about this call for an AWB because of what happened in a state with an AWB.

Also notice how the rifle this psycho-tard used isnt being referred to as an "assault rifle" by very many news outlets despite the fact that is an AR-15 like any other AR-15. It's an "AWB" AR-15. So it probably doesnt have a bayonet lug and the flash hider is welded on. That's it. That's the difference between an AWB AR-15 and a non-AWB AR-15.

So please lets make the nation as safe as CT by passing a national AWB.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:14 AM
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I am just curious to know WHY THE HELL folks from the UK are so OBSESSED with American affairs? Especially with ALL of the PROBLEMS that the UK already HAS going on over there, why not worry about YOUR OWN AFFAIRS??

In all honesty, the U.S. doesnt give a crap about what YOU all think. We have RIGHTS which is something that you all let yourselves lose. [color=gold]You have NO way of defending yourselves if a gang of thugs enters your living quarters and rapes your wife and daughter while holding you down so that you can watch it happen to your loved ones. Do you enjoy being defenseless? We in America wont be watching a gang of thugs invade our homes and wreck our lives forever.

Other countries would be WISER to keep their ASININE thoughts focused on their OWN countries problems. Besides, the HUGE MAJORITY of Americans do not CARE what other's think about OUR RIGHTS.

PERIOD. Good day.

edit on 17-12-2012 by oper8zhin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:16 AM
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Americans wont be safe untill all citizens are in jail, and the criminals are on the outside.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by oper8zhin
 


I do often wonder why the UK concerns itself with American affairs too..

However all UK citizens are allowed to own and carry hunting rifles (in the correct storage boxes) So your comment is total bull. How about you learn your facts before you talk rubbish?



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:18 AM
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Having different gun laws for every state just makes it even worse, we should have passed a national ban on every rifle.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by oper8zhin
 


What a wonderfully balanced response to a carefully worded thread.

Have you been a cretin for long?
edit on 17-12-2012 by Flavian because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by oper8zhin
I am just curious to know WHY THE HELL folks from the UK are so OBSESSED with American affairs? Especially with ALL of the PROBLEMS that the UK already HAS going on over there, why not worry about YOUR OWN AFFAIRS??

In all honesty, the U.S. doesnt give a crap about what YOU all think. We have RIGHTS which is something that you all let yourselves lose. [color=gold]You have NO way of defending yourselves if a gang of thugs enters your living quarters and rapes your wife and daughter while holding you down so that you can watch it happen to your loved ones. Do you enjoy being defenseless? We in America wont be watching a gang of thugs invade our homes and wreck our lives forever.

Other countries would be WISER to keep their ASININE thoughts focused on their OWN countries problems. Besides, the HUGE MAJORITY of Americans do not CARE what other's think about OUR RIGHTS.

PERIOD. Good day.

edit on 17-12-2012 by oper8zhin because: (no reason given)



Did you bother to read, I have friends and relatives that live in the US, It is handguns that are illegal in the UK not all firearms, this forum exists to express, and discuss views for all about topics which concern them. You using the term Asinine and then posting what you did demonstrates the folly, and the ignorance that this site is supposed to deny.
edit on 17-12-2012 by hotel1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:25 AM
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I have no idea why the UK is so into this recent shooting spree.

What happened is not good by any account but here in the UK every single news channel keeps going on about this story.

Why ? we have other news here in the UK.

Maybe it's more distraction news whilst something bad is happening



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by diddy1234
 


How about because it is an appalling tragedy?

Or do we only care about things that concern us indivivually?

Sheesh..........



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:29 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


It is a tragedy but lets be honest here, it won't be the last one from America.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by oper8zhin
 


May i also add that i am constantly in fear of my home being invaded and my family being attacked. It is such a bad problem here that i cannot go outside safely at all.................

Oh yes, that's right.........that doesn't happen to me because it isn't actually an issue. It is so bad i can go to the shops. leave the doors and windows unlocked and come back to.........absolutely nothing having happened at all.......


As to my thoughts (clearly of no interest to you), gun control is a good thing. It will not prevent tragedies from occurring but it will reduce the amount of incidents. Surely that is a good thing? If not, then please explain why not - that is what the rest of us from various places around the world are struggling to understand.

Also, can anybody explain the need to me to own assault weapons? I can understand the arguments for both hunting rifles and hand guns (if properly legislated) but why assault weapons?



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by muse7
Having different gun laws for every state just makes it even worse, we should have passed a national ban on every rifle.


Of course.. that whole 10th amendment thing is silly..and the 2nd? Why banning rifles is far more important than a thing like core Constitutional rights. Naturally....We must sacrifice our liberty for our safety. I seem to recall someone rather famous saying that. The rest of the saying I've paraphrased said those willing to make that trade deserve neither. I happen to agree 100%. Those willing to trade MY freedom for THEIR security deserve no freedom or security whatsoever. Indeed.

I and the other 120 million legal gun owners will enjoy our rifles too, by the way.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by oper8zhin
 


Just in case it escaped your attention US/UK shared interests are apart of life for both of us, our armed forces have been and are currently operating jointly, many businesses operate in both nations, many people in this country have friends, and relatives in the US, and one other point one of the kids killed in that massacre was (guess what) originally from Britain, I hope that causes you to pause next time before you spout off.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by oper8zhin
I am just curious to know WHY THE HELL folks from the UK are so OBSESSED with American affairs? Especially with ALL of the PROBLEMS that the UK already HAS going on over there, why not worry about YOUR OWN AFFAIRS??


Repeat that statement to the men, women and children of the Middle East (and others) whos affairs the USA have constantly meddled with for decades.


In all honesty, the U.S. doesnt give a crap about what YOU all think.


The U.S makes that very apparent when they ignore foreign resolutions and make illegal wars.


We have RIGHTS which is something that you all let yourselves lose.


Most of the UK welcomed strict gun control, especially those of us who lost friends/family to gun crime, most of which was committed, not by criminals, but ordinary people who just flipped. As a result, we enjoy very few deaths when compared to the USA.


[color=gold]You have NO way of defending yourselves if a gang of thugs enters your living quarters and rapes your wife and daughter while holding you down so that you can watch it happen to your loved ones. Do you enjoy being defenseless? We in America wont be watching a gang of thugs invade our homes and wreck our lives forever.


It is very rare that happens over here, I can't even think of a case of it happening (I'm sure it might have done, not often though).

But that is such a lame argument, ONE man burst into a school, and within minutes killed a lot of people, because he had the tool to do so, a gun.


Other countries would be WISER to keep their ASININE thoughts focused on their OWN countries problems. Besides, the HUGE MAJORITY of Americans do not CARE what other's think about OUR RIGHTS.

PERIOD. Good day.


See my first and second responses in this reply.

The truth is, America is part of a wider community, they make decisions which can affect the whole world. Maybe we don't have the right to tell you what to do, but we certainly have the right to voice our opinions.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Wrabbit, you usually come up with balanced and rational thoughts and responses so can i pick your brain?

As i have already stated on various threads, your typical balanced individual does not go around massacring people. However, without an ease of access to guns, actually acting out a massacre is very difficult but not impossible (guns can always be obtained, whether legal or illegal). So therefore, do you think there is any merit in tightening up gun controls - say compulsory mental health checks (for arguments sake) or similar? And if not, why not?

I am 100% sure that whichever side of the debate people sit on, they do not want other incidents like this to happen. What is the solution because something has to be done, one way or another?



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 

Well you bring a rational and sane question to this whole thing and it's one I have to stop and think about. Of course, I'm supposed to say 'Hell no! No more checks! No more restrictions!'. So says the side I tend to identify with. Er..... Well, that's the joy of not marrying an ideology. I don't have to follow their bad ideas.


I'll say the 2009 Heller case protected our individual right and the fact states flat out can NOT ban guns. Period. However....they left open the path of 'reasonable regulation'. Which makes it a whole new avenue to hash out.

To specifically answer your question after the above lays out what can and cannot be legally done ....I say I agree with you and I think Mental Health Checks are an outstanding idea. After all, we already DO this..or they are supposed to...or claim to. The NICS check (FBI Background check at purchase) is suppose to check Mental Health records. The problem of course is that the states determine what records are fed into the federal system, at what time interval and with 50 different levels of detail.

We already have these checks though, so absolutely, I'd be for making the existing checks MEAN something and actually DO the checking they claim to. I haven no problem with the discussion of logical ways to prevent the mentally ill and outright dangerous among us from getting weapons. The whole devil in the details comes in the definition of 'logical' and 'dangerous', right?



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Ahh, now that is interesting. So, like many other countries, there are existing laws in place that the government simply do not implement properly?

To be honest, that doesn't surprise in the slightest. It is often the case with cases in the MSM that make us all stop and stare (regardless of location) that laws already exist. But then we have the whole knee jerk reaction and cries of "new laws needed". I suppose that isn't really surprising when you consider many politicians these days have a legal background! (have to throw in a conspiracy angle!).

As i said, i do understand both sides of the argument. I am firmly in the control camp but i also understand the reticence that many gun owners feel. Generally, i am against blanket bans of anything.

As an idea then, how about all Mental Health practitioners have access to a National database. When they treat someone or have concerns, they raise it on this database. That database is then linked to the Gun Owners database - if a flag suddenly pops up next to someone's name, the Police pay a visit to determine threat levels and whether remove of fire arms is necessary.

I fully understand that to many US gun owners, that may seem like an invasion and possibly even a step too far but if outright banning of guns is impossible, then some form of compromise will have to be reached.






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